Most accurate .22 lr handgun. What is it? How accurate? Any underdogs? - Page 2

ammo.crafter · July 30, 2018, 06:41 AM

Volquartsen

Mr. Mike · July 30, 2018, 01:08 PM

Current .22 pistol for match is S&W model 41, with long barrel. Use CCI standard ammo and none other (seems typical of 41 users in this area) I did fine tune the magazines and the only miss-fires I have experienced were due to shell primer failures. I have witnessed other M41s fail but I always clean and care for my pistol after each session at the range. Always! And, it has never let me down. Mine is about 10 years old now and so far has not needed any parts added. I do shoot two handed but that is more due to age and failing eyesight. I have not taken top spot in a few years now...again...age and failing eyesight...but still continue to enjoy the sport!

Master Blaster · July 30, 2018, 01:47 PM

I own 3 model 41's, a 7.5" made in 1974, a 5.5" made in 1997, and a 7.5" made in 2009, all of my three are 100% reliable when they are maintained and kept clean. I have put over 100,000 rounds through the three of them over the last 20+ years. I see them often at Bullseye pistol matches and they all seem to run reliably and shoot accurately.

They are the most accurate .22lr with relatively inexpensive ammo CCI SV, and made in the USA. Add some custom grips and the only way you will do better is to spend 2x as much on a Hammerli or a Pardini. I also have several K-22's of different vintages they are also very accurate.

mellow_c · July 31, 2018, 02:10 AM

Mr. Mike,

Glad to hear of your good experiences with the 41. May I ask, what sort of fine tuning did you do to the magazines?

Master Blaster,

Also happy to hear of your nice and reliable 41's. Sounds like keeping them clean is a simple and common sense way to keep them running reliably. I also have heard a lot of people really like using CCI standard velocity out of them.

How do your k-22's shoot by comparison? I know they are two different animals, but I've had a lot of interest in the s&w model 17 lately. Would you say one is more accurate than the other? I'm sure they are all fine shooters.

A general question for everyone. . .

What types of guns can be used in NRA bullseye shooting? I've read up on it a bit and there seems to be a lot of different forms or classes of competition. Using everything from 1911's, single shot .22's, semi auto .22's, .22 revolvers, 38 specials, etc. Along with rapid fire, slow fire, 25 meeter, 50 meeter. . .

Sounds like a lot to figure out. Maybe one particular competition would be a good starting point for beginners?

Do revolvers, and semi auto .22's compete head to head?

It seems so much easier to just have a nice and productive day at the range, but I do think I would enjoy a bit of competition.

NoSecondBest · July 31, 2018, 06:38 AM

mellow c
Here's the rulebook. It tells all. Your best bet to start is a semi-auto rimfire. Cheap to shoot and you can start with a less expensive gun and see what other's are using and then decide where to put your money. Good luck.
https://compete.nra.org/documents/pd...istol-book.pdf

HighValleyRanch · July 31, 2018, 09:38 AM

I saw a guy using a single six for a while, though he didn't progress up the ranks too far with it. I used all revolvers for a year or two with the k17 as the .22. Revolvers compete directly with semi's unless it's a revolver only type match.
Most target .22's (not the cheap polymer .22's they are coming out with nowadays) will outshoot most beginning shooters. But the most accurate .22 will take the gun out of the equation.
The NRA now allows two handed for the novice levels, but eventually if you are serious about precision type shooting you will have to learn one handed fundamentals. I've seen many club shooter who were good two handed never be able to transition to one handed shooting because they had to drop back down in their standings during the transition, so they gave up.

DaleA · July 31, 2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

but I do think I would enjoy a bit of competition.

With a couple of incredibly rare exceptions I've always found the competition crowd to be friendly and, well, nice.

Getting involved in competition shooting focuses your concentration marvelously well and gives you other folk to talk with about guns and new stuff to try.

When I was starting out the club leader let me shoot his S&W Model 41 a few times. I was struggling with a .22 conversion on a 1911 handgun and that convinced me to get a Ruger Mark II. (I couldn't come close to affording a 41.)

It was good times, focused my concentration and had me shooting on a regular, disciplined, schedule. And disciplined does NOT mean it isn't fun, it just means you're actually working on improving. Once again, good times.

the possum · July 31, 2018, 04:30 PM

I was recently pondering this subject myself.

The guy who mentioned the Marvel conversion units for a 1911 deserves a +1. Their units are guaranteed to shoot better than 1" at 50 yards, and most of the test targets I've seen shipped with them (just from cruising Gun Broker, etc.) are considerably better, in the .5"-6" range. If you want to pay them extra money to test them out with various brands of ammo & do some tweaking, they'll even guarantee them all the way down to less than 0.4" at 50 yards.

(check their order form/price sheet) https://www.marvelprecision.com/marvel-unit-1/

Also, even though Ruger's various auto pistols are not generally though of as top-tier for this kind of work, do keep in mind that there's a LOT of aftermarket support out there that can really improve their accuracy, just like with the 10/22. ammo.crafter mentioned Volquartsen above; it may be a good place to start.

mk70ss · July 31, 2018, 04:43 PM

My Walther GSP .22. Belonged to a former Olympic shooter.

AzShooter · July 31, 2018, 08:26 PM

My Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite with all Volquartsen parts including their LLV 6 inch upper can shoot 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch groups rested at 25 yards. The VQ Scorpion is about the same thing but is very well built by Volquartsen.

My target ammo is Eley Standard. It also shoots very well with CCI SV.

SGW Gunsmith · August 13, 2018, 10:53 AM

I have a Smith & Wesson Model 41 ( 1993 ) , and it was sent back to Smith & Wesson THREE ( YES 3! ) times before the dang thing would function properly. I have customers who also have had issues with the Model 41 guns they purchased. Recoil spring sensitivity is one reason that Wolf Gunsprings provides a multitude of varying pound ratings to keep the Model 41 from slide battering.

Testing the accuracy of any handgun, as far as I'm concerned, needs to have ALL human influence removed from the testing, as best possible. Here's what I use:

This is the ONLY way where I can get an idea of actually how well a specific brand of "match" .22 rimfire ammunition will perform in a specific pistol. Then, I will have a benchmark to work toward to see if I can replicate that accuracy.

This Volquartsen LLV is much less ammunition picky and the accuracy comparison, using the same ammunition as I've tested in several other alleged affordable target pistols is quite impressive:

Now, I have NOT tested any Pardini, Morini, Russian or Hammeli pistols in this Ransom Rest, as I don't know of anyone around here who has one, but I sure would like to see how well they do perform in this rest.

SGW Gunsmith · August 13, 2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the possum

I was recently pondering this subject myself.

The guy who mentioned the Marvel conversion units for a 1911 deserves a +1. Their units are guaranteed to shoot better than 1" at 50 yards, and most of the test targets I've seen shipped with them (just from cruising Gun Broker, etc.) are considerably better, in the .5"-6" range. If you want to pay them extra money to test them out with various brands of ammo & do some tweaking, they'll even guarantee them all the way down to less than 0.4" at 50 yards.

(check their order form/price sheet) https://www.marvelprecision.com/marvel-unit-1/

Also, even though Ruger's various auto pistols are not generally though of as top-tier for this kind of work, do keep in mind that there's a LOT of aftermarket support out there that can really improve their accuracy, just like with the 10/22. ammo.crafter mentioned Volquartsen above; it may be a good place to start.

I absolutely agree with Post #33. The Ruger Mark pistols, especially the Mark II Government model is a very accurate specimen, as is, with the right .22 rimfire ammunition, of course. The trigger needs a bit of improvement, but otherwise, it's a very good place to start:

the possum · August 16, 2018, 08:47 AM

SGW Gunsmith-
You've got some mighty purdy pistols there. I really like the figured walnut grips on that stainless one in the bottom picture.

Now, I ain't tryin' to call you out with this, but you talked about accuracy a lot in your posts, but never provided any actual numbers. When I was researching this stuff earlier, I can't tell you how many guys I saw bragging up the accuracy of their gun, and when they finally provided a target picture, they were getting like 2 or 3 inch groups at 25 yards. So, what kind of groups are you normally getting from the guns in your pictures (and others like them you've done)? Do you guarantee them to shoot less than 1" at 50 yards, like the Marvel units? How often do you get one shooting in the 0.3" range at 50 yards?

Walt Sherrill · August 16, 2018, 10:10 AM

I'm not a big 1911 fan (but I do love a good 1911 trigger). I've had several nice ones, but none at the moment. But, whenever I see or use a Marvel unit, I kind of think about getting another 1911 AND a Marvel top end.

I first mentioned their well-known accuracy in an earlier post in this discussion, but I was later surprised to see that few of the guns mentioned in this discussion seem to come close to the level of precision/accuracy that the Marvel units can offer.

I once had a Ruger Target Competition (slab-sideded, in stainless, with longer barrel. That gun looked a lot like the one in #37, above, but with the factory sights still mounted.) It was a beautiful gun and a great shooter. But I later picked up a Kadet Kit for use with my CZs (I had several CZs at the time), and I found that I could actually shoot the CZ (mounted on my CZ-85 Combat) better than I could shoot the Ruger. (I never added after-market parts to the Ruger, but the Kadet Kit was factory stock, too, as was the CZ, except for a different sear.) It may just be that the CZ fit my hand better than the Ruger. I eventually traded the Ruger away.

saleen322 · August 17, 2018, 06:45 PM

A good 22 pistol will get under 2" @ 50 yards and some, with the right ammo, will go under 1". Also to no surprise, they do not all like the same ammunition. Several years ago we did some testing of various High Standard and Volquartsen barrels. We used 4 different types of ammo chosen simply because that is what we had. The results are listed below. My guess is different makes of pistols would show similar results in like testing. YMMV

AzShooter · August 17, 2018, 06:59 PM

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite with all Volquartsen parts and a VQ LLV 6 top end. Fun to shoot and fun to build.

SGW Gunsmith · August 18, 2018, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the possum

SGW Gunsmith-
You've got some mighty purdy pistols there. I really like the figured walnut grips on that stainless one in the bottom picture.

Now, I ain't tryin' to call you out with this, but you talked about accuracy a lot in your posts, but never provided any actual numbers. When I was researching this stuff earlier, I can't tell you how many guys I saw bragging up the accuracy of their gun, and when they finally provided a target picture, they were getting like 2 or 3 inch groups at 25 yards. So, what kind of groups are you normally getting from the guns in your pictures (and others like them you've done)? Do you guarantee them to shoot less than 1" at 50 yards, like the Marvel units? How often do you get one shooting in the 0.3" range at 50 yards?

I normally don't test any .22 pistols at 50 yards, only .22 rifles. I relegate most of my .22 rimfire pistol shooting/testing to no further than 35 meters, 25 yards or 50 feet. When I need to go out further, I use a rifle.

Actually, I don't give a "rat's patoot" if anyone cares to question any of my testing end results. The testing is done for ME, so I have an up close and personal experience with what will work for ME, nobody else. The "inter-web" has too many phony critics who question everything and anything that gets posted, so I don't normally do it. I do keep groups though:

The 10-ring is one-inch diameter.

And I do keep extensive chronograph recordings of actual velocities measured from quite a few Ruger Mark pistol barrels of 4¾, on up through the 10-inch barreled versions:

This is an Oehler 35P chronograph using three sky screens. Next best chrono other than lab equipment:

Walt Sherrill · August 18, 2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGW Gunsmith

Actually, I don't give a "rat's patoot" if anyone cares to question any of my testing end results. The testing is done for ME, so I have an up close and personal experience with what will work for ME, nobody else. The "inter-web" has too many phony critics who question everything and anything that gets posted, so I don't normally do it. I do keep groups though:

I don't think the_possum was really questioning your honesty or your expertise when me made his comments, but just making note of the fact that RESULTS in a topic where RESULTS are a key focus, aren't really mentioned.

In many of the other responses, some claims are made, and some results cited, but not all of them were exceptional.

Your photos of a couple of targets adds some extra impact to your earlier comments. And Ransom Rest results are much harder to argue with.

the possum · August 21, 2018, 05:35 PM

Yeah, upon re-reading my earlier post, I came across more confrontational than I intended. Those look like awesome groups, SGW Gunsmith. Thanks for coming back to provide more details.

gr8guns · August 21, 2018, 08:16 PM

I have model 41, and SW22 pistols from Smith and Wesson, Buckmarks, a Hammerli, a couple of Rugers, and some High Standards made in Hamden. Add a couple of CZ Kadets to the mix and my fav of the whole bunch is my 104 slant grip Citation High Standard.

I just shoot it more accurately than the others.

shickelgruber · August 24, 2018, 12:50 PM

I have a Ruger MK3 hunter,with all of the Volquartsen goodies, I would put it up against any thing that will chamber a 22LR.

JRR · August 24, 2018, 09:26 PM

In the underdog category. CZ 75 SA with Kadet 22 upper.
20 shots with SK Std + at 50 ft. Bench rested. Red dot.

SGW Gunsmith · August 25, 2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the possum

Yeah, upon re-reading my earlier post, I came across more confrontational than I intended. Those look like awesome groups, SGW Gunsmith. Thanks for coming back to provide more details.

I didn't find your post to be inflammatory at all. On a very few other sites, no matter what you try to provide as "proof", there always seems to be someone who challenges the posted results. So, that's why I don't bother posting groups, until someone asks.
Accuracy, especially with handguns is a very subjective thing. I just like to know what's possible from a specific pistol with various brands of ammunition, using the most sturdy means possible, or that's currently available.
Back in the day, when detectives carried snubby .38 Special revolvers as back-up guns, I tested several S&W Chiefs in the Ransom Rest and was very surprised to see how accurate those short barreled revolvers can be, until someone holds one.

shickelgruber · August 25, 2018, 09:32 PM

I have a Ruger MK 3 hunter with all the Volqrartsen goodies,I would put it up against any pistol that would chamber a 22lr.

PzGren · August 26, 2018, 07:01 AM

The Hammerli 208 still holds a world record in ISSF competition that was never bested. I do believe that this record from 1997 was still shot on the old rapid fire target, which was changed to make the average score much lower by using a considerably smaller rapid fire target.

Nevertheless, the Hammerli 208 is still a top contender in many serious ISSF competitions and looks more like a firearm than sports equipment; the very reason why I switched from a perfectly good Gehmann Walther GSP to the Hammerli International.

July 30, 2018, 06:41 AM	#26
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	.22 accuracy Volquartsen __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 30, 2018, 01:08 PM	#27
Mr. Mike Member Join Date: November 27, 2011 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 26	Current .22 pistol for match is S&W model 41, with long barrel. Use CCI standard ammo and none other (seems typical of 41 users in this area) I did fine tune the magazines and the only miss-fires I have experienced were due to shell primer failures. I have witnessed other M41s fail but I always clean and care for my pistol after each session at the range. Always! And, it has never let me down. Mine is about 10 years old now and so far has not needed any parts added. I do shoot two handed but that is more due to age and failing eyesight. I have not taken top spot in a few years now...again...age and failing eyesight...but still continue to enjoy the sport! __________________ All behavior is chosen!

July 31, 2018, 09:38 AM	#31
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	I saw a guy using a single six for a while, though he didn't progress up the ranks too far with it. I used all revolvers for a year or two with the k17 as the .22. Revolvers compete directly with semi's unless it's a revolver only type match. Most target .22's (not the cheap polymer .22's they are coming out with nowadays) will outshoot most beginning shooters. But the most accurate .22 will take the gun out of the equation. The NRA now allows two handed for the novice levels, but eventually if you are serious about precision type shooting you will have to learn one handed fundamentals. I've seen many club shooter who were good two handed never be able to transition to one handed shooting because they had to drop back down in their standings during the transition, so they gave up. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail" Last edited by HighValleyRanch; July 31, 2018 at 04:35 PM.

July 31, 2018, 04:43 PM	#34
mk70ss Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,598	My Walther GSP .22. Belonged to a former Olympic shooter. __________________ Say when.....

August 16, 2018, 10:10 AM	#39
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	I'm not a big 1911 fan (but I do love a good 1911 trigger). I've had several nice ones, but none at the moment. But, whenever I see or use a Marvel unit, I kind of think about getting another 1911 AND a Marvel top end. I first mentioned their well-known accuracy in an earlier post in this discussion, but I was later surprised to see that few of the guns mentioned in this discussion seem to come close to the level of precision/accuracy that the Marvel units can offer. I once had a Ruger Target Competition (slab-sideded, in stainless, with longer barrel. That gun looked a lot like the one in #37, above, but with the factory sights still mounted.) It was a beautiful gun and a great shooter. But I later picked up a Kadet Kit for use with my CZs (I had several CZs at the time), and I found that I could actually shoot the CZ (mounted on my CZ-85 Combat) better than I could shoot the Ruger. (I never added after-market parts to the Ruger, but the Kadet Kit was factory stock, too, as was the CZ, except for a different sear.) It may just be that the CZ fit my hand better than the Ruger. I eventually traded the Ruger away. Last edited by Walt Sherrill; August 16, 2018 at 10:15 AM.

July 30, 2018, 01:47 PM	#28
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	I own 3 model 41's, a 7.5" made in 1974, a 5.5" made in 1997, and a 7.5" made in 2009, all of my three are 100% reliable when they are maintained and kept clean. I have put over 100,000 rounds through the three of them over the last 20+ years. I see them often at Bullseye pistol matches and they all seem to run reliably and shoot accurately. They are the most accurate .22lr with relatively inexpensive ammo CCI SV, and made in the USA. Add some custom grips and the only way you will do better is to spend 2x as much on a Hammerli or a Pardini. I also have several K-22's of different vintages they are also very accurate.

July 31, 2018, 02:10 AM	#29
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Mr. Mike, Glad to hear of your good experiences with the 41. May I ask, what sort of fine tuning did you do to the magazines? Master Blaster, Also happy to hear of your nice and reliable 41's. Sounds like keeping them clean is a simple and common sense way to keep them running reliably. I also have heard a lot of people really like using CCI standard velocity out of them. How do your k-22's shoot by comparison? I know they are two different animals, but I've had a lot of interest in the s&w model 17 lately. Would you say one is more accurate than the other? I'm sure they are all fine shooters. A general question for everyone. . . What types of guns can be used in NRA bullseye shooting? I've read up on it a bit and there seems to be a lot of different forms or classes of competition. Using everything from 1911's, single shot .22's, semi auto .22's, .22 revolvers, 38 specials, etc. Along with rapid fire, slow fire, 25 meeter, 50 meeter. . . Sounds like a lot to figure out. Maybe one particular competition would be a good starting point for beginners? Do revolvers, and semi auto .22's compete head to head? It seems so much easier to just have a nice and productive day at the range, but I do think I would enjoy a bit of competition.

July 31, 2018, 06:38 AM	#30
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	mellow c Here's the rulebook. It tells all. Your best bet to start is a semi-auto rimfire. Cheap to shoot and you can start with a less expensive gun and see what other's are using and then decide where to put your money. Good luck. https://compete.nra.org/documents/pd...istol-book.pdf

July 31, 2018, 04:30 PM	#33
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	I was recently pondering this subject myself. The guy who mentioned the Marvel conversion units for a 1911 deserves a +1. Their units are guaranteed to shoot better than 1" at 50 yards, and most of the test targets I've seen shipped with them (just from cruising Gun Broker, etc.) are considerably better, in the .5"-6" range. If you want to pay them extra money to test them out with various brands of ammo & do some tweaking, they'll even guarantee them all the way down to less than 0.4" at 50 yards. (check their order form/price sheet) https://www.marvelprecision.com/marvel-unit-1/ Also, even though Ruger's various auto pistols are not generally though of as top-tier for this kind of work, do keep in mind that there's a LOT of aftermarket support out there that can really improve their accuracy, just like with the 10/22. ammo.crafter mentioned Volquartsen above; it may be a good place to start.

July 31, 2018, 08:26 PM	#35
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	My Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite with all Volquartsen parts including their LLV 6 inch upper can shoot 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch groups rested at 25 yards. The VQ Scorpion is about the same thing but is very well built by Volquartsen. My target ammo is Eley Standard. It also shoots very well with CCI SV.

August 13, 2018, 10:53 AM	#36
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	I have a Smith & Wesson Model 41 ( 1993 ) , and it was sent back to Smith & Wesson THREE ( YES 3! ) times before the dang thing would function properly. I have customers who also have had issues with the Model 41 guns they purchased. Recoil spring sensitivity is one reason that Wolf Gunsprings provides a multitude of varying pound ratings to keep the Model 41 from slide battering. Testing the accuracy of any handgun, as far as I'm concerned, needs to have ALL human influence removed from the testing, as best possible. Here's what I use: This is the ONLY way where I can get an idea of actually how well a specific brand of "match" .22 rimfire ammunition will perform in a specific pistol. Then, I will have a benchmark to work toward to see if I can replicate that accuracy. This Volquartsen LLV is much less ammunition picky and the accuracy comparison, using the same ammunition as I've tested in several other alleged affordable target pistols is quite impressive: Now, I have NOT tested any Pardini, Morini, Russian or Hammeli pistols in this Ransom Rest, as I don't know of anyone around here who has one, but I sure would like to see how well they do perform in this rest.

August 16, 2018, 08:47 AM	#38
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	SGW Gunsmith- You've got some mighty purdy pistols there. I really like the figured walnut grips on that stainless one in the bottom picture. Now, I ain't tryin' to call you out with this, but you talked about accuracy a lot in your posts, but never provided any actual numbers. When I was researching this stuff earlier, I can't tell you how many guys I saw bragging up the accuracy of their gun, and when they finally provided a target picture, they were getting like 2 or 3 inch groups at 25 yards. So, what kind of groups are you normally getting from the guns in your pictures (and others like them you've done)? Do you guarantee them to shoot less than 1" at 50 yards, like the Marvel units? How often do you get one shooting in the 0.3" range at 50 yards?

August 17, 2018, 06:45 PM	#40
saleen322 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2010 Posts: 778	A good 22 pistol will get under 2" @ 50 yards and some, with the right ammo, will go under 1". Also to no surprise, they do not all like the same ammunition. Several years ago we did some testing of various High Standard and Volquartsen barrels. We used 4 different types of ammo chosen simply because that is what we had. The results are listed below. My guess is different makes of pistols would show similar results in like testing. YMMV

August 17, 2018, 06:59 PM	#41
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite with all Volquartsen parts and a VQ LLV 6 top end. Fun to shoot and fun to build. Last edited by AzShooter; August 18, 2018 at 12:56 AM.

August 21, 2018, 05:35 PM	#44
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	Yeah, upon re-reading my earlier post, I came across more confrontational than I intended. Those look like awesome groups, SGW Gunsmith. Thanks for coming back to provide more details.

August 21, 2018, 08:16 PM	#45
gr8guns Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2014 Posts: 2	M 104 High Standard Citation I have model 41, and SW22 pistols from Smith and Wesson, Buckmarks, a Hammerli, a couple of Rugers, and some High Standards made in Hamden. Add a couple of CZ Kadets to the mix and my fav of the whole bunch is my 104 slant grip Citation High Standard. I just shoot it more accurately than the others. Last edited by gr8guns; August 21, 2018 at 08:22 PM.

August 24, 2018, 12:50 PM	#46
shickelgruber Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: cincinnati,ohio Posts: 5	I have a Ruger MK3 hunter,with all of the Volquartsen goodies, I would put it up against any thing that will chamber a 22LR.

August 24, 2018, 09:26 PM	#47
JRR Member Join Date: January 5, 2001 Location: N. Calif. Posts: 53	In the underdog category. CZ 75 SA with Kadet 22 upper. 20 shots with SK Std + at 50 ft. Bench rested. Red dot.

August 25, 2018, 09:32 PM	#49
shickelgruber Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: cincinnati,ohio Posts: 5	accuracy. I have a Ruger MK 3 hunter with all the Volqrartsen goodies,I would put it up against any pistol that would chamber a 22lr.

August 26, 2018, 07:01 AM	#50
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,259	The Hammerli 208 still holds a world record in ISSF competition that was never bested. I do believe that this record from 1997 was still shot on the old rapid fire target, which was changed to make the average score much lower by using a considerably smaller rapid fire target. Nevertheless, the Hammerli 208 is still a top contender in many serious ISSF competitions and looks more like a firearm than sports equipment; the very reason why I switched from a perfectly good Gehmann Walther GSP to the Hammerli International.