Ruger announces 9mm SP101 - Page 2

ifithitu · October 13, 2017, 09:01 AM

I haven't made up my mind yet about a 9 mm revolver ,I think the SP 101 9mm could be in my collection one day in the future.

carguychris · October 13, 2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve

Putting 9mm rounds in it gives you all the pressure of a .357 but without the performance.

Except that 9mm is cheaper to buy—important for those who don't care to handload—and moon clips are kewl.

Chainsaw. · October 14, 2017, 07:21 PM

Would be a nice bug rev division gun for idpa.

TruthTellers · October 14, 2017, 08:29 PM

Given that it is heavier than the LCR, it will be much less likely to have bullets jump the crimp.

But then one could just buy the .357 and not have such an issue.

I think 9mm ballistics from a revolver, especially one with a barrel 3 inches or less, are pretty good. More power than a .38 +P and less recoil than .357. Pretty good for defense and hollow points will expand.

But a .38 wadcutter or semi-wadcutter wouldn't need to worry about if the hollow point gets clogged or fails to expand as they work better when they don't expand and penetrate deeper.

I also don't like relying on full moon clips. They're not easy to carry and when then get bent, they become worthless. I prefer something like the Charter Pitbulls that don't use moon clips, but then that ejection situation isn't ideal either.

buck460XVR · October 15, 2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I also don't like relying on full moon clips. They're not easy to carry and when then get bent, they become worthless.

I agree, especially with a SD gun. Revolvers are made for rimmed cartridges, and the ease of loading and unloading rimmed cartridges from their cylinder. While practice ammo is cheap for 9mm, good SD/HD ammo is just as expensive as most others when one doesn't reload. With modern HP ammo, I see no real advantage over .38+p. For a range gun, I could see why there would be an interest, but for SD/HD, if I wanted to shoot 9mm, I'd stick with the platform it was intended for.

**4V50 Gary** · October 15, 2017, 10:21 AM

I used to train one person with a 9mm revolver. This is a step in the right direction.

weblance · October 15, 2017, 11:05 AM

4V50 Gary... Can we merge this thread into the existing thread already running about the same exact subject?

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=590106

TruthTellers · October 15, 2017, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buck460XVR

I agree, especially with a SD gun. Revolvers are made for rimmed cartridges, and the ease of loading and unloading rimmed cartridges from their cylinder. While practice ammo is cheap for 9mm, good SD/HD ammo is just as expensive as most others when one doesn't reload. With modern HP ammo, I see no real advantage over .38+p. For a range gun, I could see why there would be an interest, but for SD/HD, if I wanted to shoot 9mm, I'd stick with the platform it was intended for.

I agree about the price of good/premium 9mm ammo compared to similar in .38/.357; the price is the same. It's practice ammo where the prices drop and the benefit to a 9mm revolver is one will practice more with it over .38/.357.

But for the distances that one will likely be using a 2 inch revolver, they don't need to practice with it much at all and if one had to use said revolver for defense... there's a lot more than can go wrong with 9mm than .38 or .357.

Jayhawkhuntclub · October 15, 2017, 02:20 PM

With an MSRP of $719, the street price is going to be close to that of a 686! I've owned both and the sp101 is not in the same league as the 686. Some may argue that's not a valid comparison as the 686 doesn't come in 9mm. But I'd have trouble paying that for an sp101. On the plus side, there are going to be some Ruger fans that are going to be very excited about this. Good for them!

Model12Win · October 15, 2017, 02:32 PM

Hopefully it comes with a .355" bore, not a .357" bore.

TruthTellers · October 15, 2017, 03:51 PM

Are the 9mm LCR's .357 or .355?

rock185 · October 16, 2017, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't obsess over whether the bore is .354", .355", .356", .357", etc. It is not unusual that bores are not exactly, to the thousandth, what might be assumed.

Chainsaw. · October 16, 2017, 02:37 PM

They would have to be .355, 9mm would jiggle down the bore if it was .357.

otasan · October 17, 2017, 11:56 AM

9mms are for autoloaders.

MINSH101 · November 4, 2017, 01:16 AM

I like what I see to the point I need to get one.

Screwball · November 4, 2017, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainsaw.

They would have to be .355, 9mm would jiggle down the bore if it was .357.

No difference in accuracy...

And being I have two cylinders (9mm and .38) for my 642-1, I was able to do a real world comparison.

wild cat mccane · November 4, 2017, 08:22 AM

I point rarely mentioned, 38/357 really don't have the number of good commercially loaded hollow points as the 9mm.

Fine for reloaders, not great for the rest of us when a box of Gold Dots cost 1/10 of the revolver cost.

Box of 50 9mm HST is $20.

481 · November 4, 2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I point rarely mentioned, 38/357 really don't have the number of good commercially loaded hollow points as the 9mm.

Fine for reloaders, not great for the rest of us when a box of Gold Dots cost 1/10 of the revolver cost.

Box of 50 9mm HST is $20.

Point, set and match, sir. The HST is a great JHP, and doesn't care if it is fired from a revolver either.

otasan · November 4, 2017, 06:08 PM

makes a very good .357 SD load - the 125 gr SJHP.

wild cat mccane · November 5, 2017, 03:10 PM

Remington's 125gr SJHP are known to be really hard on revolvers.

I learned this after buying 1k rounds and learning about them after.

SonOfScubaDiver · November 5, 2017, 04:45 PM

Wild cat, how are they hard on revolvers?

carguychris · November 6, 2017, 05:37 PM

wild cat mccane, are you referring to topstrap flame cutting?

Hot 110gr-125gr are also known for causing the dreaded 6 o'clock forcing cone crack in older S&W K frames, but this issue is specific to older S&W K frames, and not Rugers AFAIK.

stephen426 · November 6, 2017, 06:23 PM

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point of a 5 shot revolver???

Brand Ruger Glock Difference Winner
Model SP101 43
Weight 25 oz. 17.95 oz. 7.05 oz. Glock
Length 7.2" 6.26" .94" Glock
Width Est. 1.37" 1.02" ~.35" Glock
Height Est. 5" 4.25" ~.75" Glock
Capacity 5 6+1 2 rounds Glock
Barrel Length 2.25" 3.39" 1.14" Glock
MSRP $719 $529 $190 Glock

Looks like a pretty solid win for Glock in all departments. Feel free to sub another sub compact semi auto and it should still beat the Ruger. What advantage do you get by going to 9mm? You don't even have the power advantage that a .357 would give. While Glock's factory sights are pretty crappy, they are easily changed. The recoil of semi-autos are less than revolvers of the same weight due to the reciprocating slide taking some of the recoil energy.

The only advantage is the ability to pull the trigger on a dud round and get a fresh round. That, and I'm sure the SP101 trigger in single action is probably better than the Glock 43.

TruthTellers · November 6, 2017, 07:59 PM

The point of a 5 shot 9mm revolver is they are good choices for backup guns to a primary gun in 9mm. It allows you to use the ammunition already loaded in your magazines to not be dead weight and usable in the revolver. If for any reason you have to use a gun to defend yourself, you're already in trouble, but if that gun fails for whatever reason and you have to use your backup gun, you need something that's dead nuts reliable and a revolver generally is more so compared to an autoloader.

At least, revolvers that aren't so light that rimless cartridges will jump crimp and lock up the cylinder. This is a problem I have with the LCR, but the SP101 is a heavier gun and hopefully dampens recoil enough to keep that from happening.

The only argument I can muster as to why a revolver in the same caliber would not be the best choice for a BUG is that say you carry a Glock 19 as a primary, you could easily just carry a Glock 26 as a BUG and if the 19 has a problem, the 26 can use the same mags as the 19.

Same can be said for any subcompact pistol using it's larger compact and standard size pistols mags.

But to have a G26 that weighs less than an SP101 and have all the advantages an autoloader has over a revolver... it becomes difficult to recommend using a revolver as a BUG. If you want absolute reliability from a BUG, then a revolver is the best choice, but it's uncommon for pistols that have been tested with quality ammunition to ensure reliability to all of a sudden have issues in the heat of the moment.

stephen426 · November 6, 2017, 08:15 PM

TruthTellers,

You talk about reliability, but many quality auto loaders are so reliable that the "reliability" argument almost carries no weight. The point you did bring up pokes even more holes since a Glock 19 is almost the same size height and length as the SP101, but is even thinner. Oh yeah... It also holds 3 times the ammo and an extra mag will give you 6 times the fire power.

If you are that worried about reliability, your Glock 26 suggestion easily fits the bill, with double the mag capacity.

October 13, 2017, 09:01 AM	#26
ifithitu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2016 Location: Derby City KY. Posts: 243	I haven't made up my mind yet about a 9 mm revolver ,I think the SP 101 9mm could be in my collection one day in the future. __________________ USMC Vietnam Veteran,0311 Grunt. 6/68 to 7/69 Semper Fi

October 14, 2017, 07:21 PM	#28
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Would be a nice bug rev division gun for idpa. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

October 14, 2017, 08:29 PM	#29
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Given that it is heavier than the LCR, it will be much less likely to have bullets jump the crimp. But then one could just buy the .357 and not have such an issue. I think 9mm ballistics from a revolver, especially one with a barrel 3 inches or less, are pretty good. More power than a .38 +P and less recoil than .357. Pretty good for defense and hollow points will expand. But a .38 wadcutter or semi-wadcutter wouldn't need to worry about if the hollow point gets clogged or fails to expand as they work better when they don't expand and penetrate deeper. I also don't like relying on full moon clips. They're not easy to carry and when then get bent, they become worthless. I prefer something like the Charter Pitbulls that don't use moon clips, but then that ejection situation isn't ideal either. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

October 15, 2017, 10:21 AM	#31
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	I used to train one person with a 9mm revolver. This is a step in the right direction. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 15, 2017, 11:05 AM	#32
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	4V50 Gary... Can we merge this thread into the existing thread already running about the same exact subject? https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=590106 Last edited by 4V50 Gary; October 16, 2017 at 03:06 PM. Reason: ETA: Good suggestion Weblance! Thanks. Gary.

October 15, 2017, 02:20 PM	#34
Jayhawkhuntclub Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Posts: 581	With an MSRP of $719, the street price is going to be close to that of a 686! I've owned both and the sp101 is not in the same league as the 686. Some may argue that's not a valid comparison as the 686 doesn't come in 9mm. But I'd have trouble paying that for an sp101. On the plus side, there are going to be some Ruger fans that are going to be very excited about this. Good for them!

October 15, 2017, 02:32 PM	#35
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Hopefully it comes with a .355" bore, not a .357" bore.

October 15, 2017, 03:51 PM	#36
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Are the 9mm LCR's .357 or .355? __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

October 16, 2017, 02:36 PM	#37
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	I wouldn't obsess over whether the bore is .354", .355", .356", .357", etc. It is not unusual that bores are not exactly, to the thousandth, what might be assumed. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

October 16, 2017, 02:37 PM	#38
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	They would have to be .355, 9mm would jiggle down the bore if it was .357. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

October 17, 2017, 11:56 AM	#39
otasan Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2005 Location: Hartford, Vermont Posts: 519	9mms are for autoloaders.

November 4, 2017, 01:16 AM	#40
MINSH101 Member Join Date: September 8, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 63	I like what I see to the point I need to get one.

November 4, 2017, 08:22 AM	#42
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,623	I point rarely mentioned, 38/357 really don't have the number of good commercially loaded hollow points as the 9mm. Fine for reloaders, not great for the rest of us when a box of Gold Dots cost 1/10 of the revolver cost. Box of 50 9mm HST is $20.

November 4, 2017, 06:08 PM	#44
otasan Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2005 Location: Hartford, Vermont Posts: 519	Remington or Federal makes a very good .357 SD load - the 125 gr SJHP.

November 5, 2017, 03:10 PM	#45
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,623	Remington's 125gr SJHP are known to be really hard on revolvers. I learned this after buying 1k rounds and learning about them after.

November 5, 2017, 04:45 PM	#46
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	Wild cat, how are they hard on revolvers?

November 6, 2017, 05:37 PM	#47
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	wild cat mccane, are you referring to topstrap flame cutting? Hot 110gr-125gr are also known for causing the dreaded 6 o'clock forcing cone crack in older S&W K frames, but this issue is specific to older S&W K frames, and not Rugers AFAIK. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

November 6, 2017, 06:23 PM	#48
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point of a 5 shot revolver??? Brand Ruger Glock Difference Winner Model SP101 43 Weight 25 oz. 17.95 oz. 7.05 oz. Glock Length 7.2" 6.26" .94" Glock Width Est. 1.37" 1.02" ~.35" Glock Height Est. 5" 4.25" ~.75" Glock Capacity 5 6+1 2 rounds Glock Barrel Length 2.25" 3.39" 1.14" Glock MSRP $719 $529 $190 Glock Looks like a pretty solid win for Glock in all departments. Feel free to sub another sub compact semi auto and it should still beat the Ruger. What advantage do you get by going to 9mm? You don't even have the power advantage that a .357 would give. While Glock's factory sights are pretty crappy, they are easily changed. The recoil of semi-autos are less than revolvers of the same weight due to the reciprocating slide taking some of the recoil energy. The only advantage is the ability to pull the trigger on a dud round and get a fresh round. That, and I'm sure the SP101 trigger in single action is probably better than the Glock 43. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

November 6, 2017, 07:59 PM	#49
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	The point of a 5 shot 9mm revolver is they are good choices for backup guns to a primary gun in 9mm. It allows you to use the ammunition already loaded in your magazines to not be dead weight and usable in the revolver. If for any reason you have to use a gun to defend yourself, you're already in trouble, but if that gun fails for whatever reason and you have to use your backup gun, you need something that's dead nuts reliable and a revolver generally is more so compared to an autoloader. At least, revolvers that aren't so light that rimless cartridges will jump crimp and lock up the cylinder. This is a problem I have with the LCR, but the SP101 is a heavier gun and hopefully dampens recoil enough to keep that from happening. The only argument I can muster as to why a revolver in the same caliber would not be the best choice for a BUG is that say you carry a Glock 19 as a primary, you could easily just carry a Glock 26 as a BUG and if the 19 has a problem, the 26 can use the same mags as the 19. Same can be said for any subcompact pistol using it's larger compact and standard size pistols mags. But to have a G26 that weighs less than an SP101 and have all the advantages an autoloader has over a revolver... it becomes difficult to recommend using a revolver as a BUG. If you want absolute reliability from a BUG, then a revolver is the best choice, but it's uncommon for pistols that have been tested with quality ammunition to ensure reliability to all of a sudden have issues in the heat of the moment. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

November 6, 2017, 08:15 PM	#50
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	TruthTellers, You talk about reliability, but many quality auto loaders are so reliable that the "reliability" argument almost carries no weight. The point you did bring up pokes even more holes since a Glock 19 is almost the same size height and length as the SP101, but is even thinner. Oh yeah... It also holds 3 times the ammo and an extra mag will give you 6 times the fire power. If you are that worried about reliability, your Glock 26 suggestion easily fits the bill, with double the mag capacity. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!