Concealed carry and a school zone

Hornett · January 11, 2007, 03:52 PM

Recently an 18 yo acquaitance of mine had some trouble. Here is the story I got. He was deer hunting, finished for the day around noon, and went to his girlfriends school to take her some lunch from a fast food place. His shotgun from hunting was in his truck. Somehow (and I cannot get a clear reason for this) someone at the school got suspicious and called the law. They arrested him on the spot for having a gun at a school and he spent a night in jail until his Dad could get bail?
Now this kid is not a genius or anything. He probably did something dumb to attract attention to himself.
My real question is what do you do in a school zone.
I usually have a handgun with me in my truck or on my person. I take my son to school and pick him up after school. I NEVER take my gun into the school. Typically, if I have to go in for some reason or another, I lock it in the glove box.
Legally, what should you do about dropping kids off at school with a CCW?

Apologies if this has been addressed before.

RJay · January 11, 2007, 04:10 PM

You can pass through a school zone with a legal weapon in your vehicle. You can live next to a school zone with legal firearms in your house. You do not go into a school zone with any type of visible weapon unless you're a LEO (and even then they have been known to shoot them self in the foot). When I go over to the school I even take my Cold Steel Knife , unclasp it from my pocket and slide it into my pocket ( It's only a 3" blade but just in case ). If the young man was in a school parking lot with a visible firearm, I'm surprised they didn't bring in the SWAT team. Too much fear in the world today, but perhaps it's justified, don't know. I do know the school would rather be accused for over reacting , than under reacting. I carry a concealed weapon in my car, but it is concealed and it is never a problem. However, if I were to get caught with it on school grounds then woe to me. I know that and am willing to chance it. Again ,my weapon is concealed from sight.

smince · January 11, 2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Here is the story I got.

There are (at least) two sides to every story, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

CCW on school grounds with a permit is different than having a long arm, evidently visible, or at least something to cause alarm.

CCW on school grounds is legal in some states, at least for picking up and dropping off students. Your friend needs to learn the laws.

NCHornet · January 11, 2007, 06:17 PM

The law reads you are not suppose to bring a weapon onto school property. So techincally you are breaking the law if you have a gun in your glove box and drive up to the school to pick up your son or daughter. However I have never seen lock boxes at the entrance to schools. I volunteer at our local middle school every Wed.I would never consider taking a gun with me when I enter the school. The gun stays in the truck concealed, and nothing is said. Bringing an exposed gun onto any school property is just plain stupid!! When I was a kid during deer season all the trucks in the parking lot would have rifles in them, but we live in a different world now. Your friend was just plain stupid for what he did.
Here's your sign!!!

marlboroman84 · January 11, 2007, 07:37 PM

NCHornet,
It may be the law in your state, but here in TN you can have your firearm on you in the car if you are just picking up or dropping off your kids. Other than that it is illegal though.

Condition Plaid · January 13, 2007, 02:18 AM

Exemptions to the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act exist for those holding valid State CCWs. In California, oddly enough, there is no prohibition against carrying on school grounds if you have a CCW. Individual counties can place such a restriction on their CCW if they decide. Mine has no such restriction.

Hornett · January 13, 2007, 02:41 PM

Thanks for the responses.

I agree with the people who said basically "Here's your sign.
This particular boy is not the sharpest tool in the shed. (IMHO)

Here is the Indiana Law (my home state)
IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
35-47-9-1 Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
35-47-9-2 Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

So, It appears that it is OK to drop off my son, but taking lunch to a student is not OK.

BTW They dropped all charges against him after 3 weeks of deliberation by the prosecutor.

Quote:

When I was a kid during deer season all the trucks in the parking lot would have rifles in them, but we live in a different world now.

Me too, NCHORNET.

shield20 · January 13, 2007, 10:08 PM

This is the federal law:

18 USC 922(q)(1)
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

[note the "commerce" bull which lets them infringe our rights]

Now, this law says NO firearm is OK except those above, re:CCW, if your state issues a permit /license, you might be OK - except some states, as here in NY, have their own law which overides this exemption...I may ignore the 1000' zone, but can NOT carry/possess my CCW on "school grounds".

smince · January 14, 2007, 06:19 AM

Alabama Code

Quote:

Section 13A-11-72

Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12

(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.

(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.

(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

Quote:

Section 13A-11-75

License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Issuance; term; form; fee; revocation. The sheriff of a county may, upon the application of any person residing in that county, issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person within this state for not more than one year from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol, and that he is a suitable person to be so licensed.

Desertscout1 · January 14, 2007, 12:11 PM

Here in NM, it is a 4th degree felony to set foot on school grounds with a firearm, CCW or not. However, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and there are NO restrictions on how and where you can carry in your car.
There is nothing stupid about carrying a gun on school grounds where it can be seen as long as it is legal. If you are to cowardly or afraid of offending someone to exercise your rights, then you will probably, eventually, get what you deserve.

minsonngo · January 14, 2007, 10:32 PM

In Texas you can't carry onto the school premises.

But the parking lots and parking garages of the school and the streets near there is NOT considered school premises... so you can leave your gun in the car any time.

Samurai · January 14, 2007, 11:12 PM

marlboroman84 is dead-on for TN law. Here, you're not "carrying publicly" if you're in your car. Provided your gun both stays in the car, hidden, you're cool.

Now, if you're a student, then everything in your car is considered "on school property" and searchable without a warrant. (Constitutional freedoms lose out when weighed against the "special need" of the schools to keep the students safe.) Also, don't leave it in your car where it's visible. But, parents, grown-ups, and other free, law abiding people can treat a school like any other federal building. Just don't bring it inside.

TBT · January 18, 2007, 09:36 PM

Not being allowed to carry on school grounds is so silly. If you are deemed worthy to carry a firearm and a license has been issued you, then you should be considered able to carry near anywhere. Columbine most likely wouldn't have gone as bad as it did if there were a few honest law abiding citizens carrying inside that school.

smince · January 18, 2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Columbine most likely wouldn't have gone as bad as it did if there were a few honest law abiding citizens carrying inside that school.

http://davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

TBT · January 19, 2007, 05:46 PM

Nice link.

WeedWacker · January 20, 2007, 09:14 AM

It's sad ppl who talk of being open minded are so caught up in PCness that they are in all reality closed minded in that they no longer think for themselves but just repeat what they hear. It's like a broken record from Hillary Clintons... oh I'm sorry Hillary Rodam Clintons mouth all the way down to some lower income class families. (doesn't have to be Mrs. Clinton but you get my point)

That repeated answer "guns kill..." Actually it's physics that kills ppl. But they don't think about it so it's beyond them.

January 11, 2007, 03:52 PM	#1
Hornett Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2006 Posts: 569	Concealed carry and a school zone Recently an 18 yo acquaitance of mine had some trouble. Here is the story I got. He was deer hunting, finished for the day around noon, and went to his girlfriends school to take her some lunch from a fast food place. His shotgun from hunting was in his truck. Somehow (and I cannot get a clear reason for this) someone at the school got suspicious and called the law. They arrested him on the spot for having a gun at a school and he spent a night in jail until his Dad could get bail? Now this kid is not a genius or anything. He probably did something dumb to attract attention to himself. My real question is what do you do in a school zone. I usually have a handgun with me in my truck or on my person. I take my son to school and pick him up after school. I NEVER take my gun into the school. Typically, if I have to go in for some reason or another, I lock it in the glove box. Legally, what should you do about dropping kids off at school with a CCW? Apologies if this has been addressed before. __________________ Guns don't kill people, Jack Bauer kills people.

January 11, 2007, 04:10 PM	#2
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	You can pass through a school zone with a legal weapon in your vehicle. You can live next to a school zone with legal firearms in your house. You do not go into a school zone with any type of visible weapon unless you're a LEO (and even then they have been known to shoot them self in the foot). When I go over to the school I even take my Cold Steel Knife , unclasp it from my pocket and slide it into my pocket ( It's only a 3" blade but just in case ). If the young man was in a school parking lot with a visible firearm, I'm surprised they didn't bring in the SWAT team. Too much fear in the world today, but perhaps it's justified, don't know. I do know the school would rather be accused for over reacting , than under reacting. I carry a concealed weapon in my car, but it is concealed and it is never a problem. However, if I were to get caught with it on school grounds then woe to me. I know that and am willing to chance it. Again ,my weapon is concealed from sight. Last edited by RJay; January 11, 2007 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Add comment

January 11, 2007, 06:17 PM	#4
NCHornet Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2006 Posts: 1,001	The law reads you are not suppose to bring a weapon onto school property. So techincally you are breaking the law if you have a gun in your glove box and drive up to the school to pick up your son or daughter. However I have never seen lock boxes at the entrance to schools. I volunteer at our local middle school every Wed.I would never consider taking a gun with me when I enter the school. The gun stays in the truck concealed, and nothing is said. Bringing an exposed gun onto any school property is just plain stupid!! When I was a kid during deer season all the trucks in the parking lot would have rifles in them, but we live in a different world now. Your friend was just plain stupid for what he did. Here's your sign!!! __________________ When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away!! Carry ON!! NCHornet

January 11, 2007, 07:37 PM	#5
marlboroman84 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: Memphis,TN Posts: 541	NCHornet, It may be the law in your state, but here in TN you can have your firearm on you in the car if you are just picking up or dropping off your kids. Other than that it is illegal though. __________________ Ban Liberals, not guns! ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE (mo-lone lah-veh)

January 13, 2007, 02:18 AM	#6
Condition Plaid Member Join Date: August 7, 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 27	Exemptions to the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act exist for those holding valid State CCWs. In California, oddly enough, there is no prohibition against carrying on school grounds if you have a CCW. Individual counties can place such a restriction on their CCW if they decide. Mine has no such restriction. __________________ For information on getting your CCW License in California please visit CalCCW.

January 13, 2007, 10:08 PM	#8
shield20 Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Hudson Valley, New York Posts: 1,371	This is the federal law: 18 USC 922(q)(1) (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm - (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; (iii) that is - (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone; (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities. [note the "commerce" bull which lets them infringe our rights] Now, this law says NO firearm is OK except those above, re:CCW, if your state issues a permit /license, you might be OK - except some states, as here in NY, have their own law which overides this exemption...I may ignore the 1000' zone, but can NOT carry/possess my CCW on "school grounds".

January 14, 2007, 12:11 PM	#10
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	Here in NM, it is a 4th degree felony to set foot on school grounds with a firearm, CCW or not. However, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and there are NO restrictions on how and where you can carry in your car. There is nothing stupid about carrying a gun on school grounds where it can be seen as long as it is legal. If you are to cowardly or afraid of offending someone to exercise your rights, then you will probably, eventually, get what you deserve. __________________ Desertscout Southwest Shooting Authority Colts and Kimbers are what you show your friends. Glocks are what you show your enemies.

January 14, 2007, 10:32 PM	#11
minsonngo Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Behind my Glock 34. Posts: 100	In Texas you can't carry onto the school premises. But the parking lots and parking garages of the school and the streets near there is NOT considered school premises... so you can leave your gun in the car any time.

January 14, 2007, 11:12 PM	#12
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	marlboroman84 is dead-on for TN law. Here, you're not "carrying publicly" if you're in your car. Provided your gun both stays in the car, hidden, you're cool. Now, if you're a student, then everything in your car is considered "on school property" and searchable without a warrant. (Constitutional freedoms lose out when weighed against the "special need" of the schools to keep the students safe.) Also, don't leave it in your car where it's visible. But, parents, grown-ups, and other free, law abiding people can treat a school like any other federal building. Just don't bring it inside. __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

January 18, 2007, 09:36 PM	#13
TBT Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 971	Not being allowed to carry on school grounds is so silly. If you are deemed worthy to carry a firearm and a license has been issued you, then you should be considered able to carry near anywhere. Columbine most likely wouldn't have gone as bad as it did if there were a few honest law abiding citizens carrying inside that school.

January 19, 2007, 05:46 PM	#15
TBT Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 971	Nice link.

January 20, 2007, 09:14 AM	#16
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	It's sad ppl who talk of being open minded are so caught up in PCness that they are in all reality closed minded in that they no longer think for themselves but just repeat what they hear. It's like a broken record from Hillary Clintons... oh I'm sorry Hillary Rodam Clintons mouth all the way down to some lower income class families. (doesn't have to be Mrs. Clinton but you get my point) That repeated answer "guns kill..." Actually it's physics that kills ppl. But they don't think about it so it's beyond them.