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Old February 9, 2014, 03:36 PM   #26
Big4Freedom
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of good experience from members here that will help you.

Excellent choice in G27, imo. It's an awesome first handgun. It can be ccw easily, although a bit heavier/wider than some. It's a great night stand gun. Great for practice, recoil-wise. Great caliber & ammo is generally available. Super reliable. Very accurate.

The magazine capacities are super versatile too, allowing to use supplied mag or ones that hold tons of rds, for different purposes. So, no reservations here in that being your first handgun.

With that said, buy that one or similar gun now, based on your research, gut, feel of gun, comfort of caliber, your body size/shape for IWB, etc. but expect that you'll most likely wanna buy a 2nd one down the road that might offer lighter/smaller ccw option for comfortable routine carry. I dig my G27 but still use smaller ones often based on comfort/clothing.

Good luck and always keep 'em pointed "down range"!
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Old February 9, 2014, 04:07 PM   #27
cavelamb
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Heresy, I know! but...

I carry a Bersa Thunder 380.
I've had this pistol for 18 years and have run about 6000 rounds through it.
It shoots flawlessly.

Fixed barrel accuracy, fairly small and light weight, almost straight-in feed
angle, excellent ergonomic fit (even in my big hands), SUPERB trigger, and
one of the best factory warranties in the industry.

But my trusty little friend is getting a bit old and I'm shopping around for a
worthy replacement. I'm looking to upgrade some in the process.

So I selected a new Bersa Thunder 380 with the satin nickle finish and Crimson Trace grips.

Google around for reviews of the Bersa line. from .22 to .45, they are great
guns and excellent values.

Really hard to beat - for the bang or for the buck.
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Old February 9, 2014, 04:40 PM   #28
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Lots of great posts here and you will see we all have a different opinion.....slightly.

I hear you say:
- first gun
- first handgun
- no formal training
- need CCW and HD gun
- have support buddy
- not sure how/where to carry

Questions to you:
- live alone or shared housing?
- HD or CCW more important?


Normally, I would say buy a 22 and get very proficient with it. That would slow your progress and 22 is stupid hard to get...

SO, GET A 9MM. Cheap, small, low recoil, lots of gun choices...

GET FORMAL TRAINING....I received informal training from my dad for 15 years....I needed formal training. 2 classes later, I was really ready for CCW.

GUN....Sure, we all want a micro compact to shoot 50 rounds a month out of and CCW daily...but actually, you need to shoot thousands of rounds to get trigger time in. So, I would look at a Kahr CW9, G19, or XDM service sized gun. The Kahr would be best for CCW.

What to carry in? Well, you have a decision to make. You need to adjust your wardrobe slightly...Just like a woman can't carry in daisy dukes and belly shirts, you need a belt and or a cover shirt.

In FL hot weather, I usually carry my P40 IWB with a "wife-beater" shirt under a short sleeve loose fit collared shirt...buttoned or not depending on mood/wind. Shorts are loose fitting and I only carry a wallet, small knife and a small light.

Some times I go shoulder rig with same clothes or worst case, I have a P32 for shirtless days...which are rare since I met food!
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Old February 9, 2014, 05:23 PM   #29
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Welcome to TFL.
Finding a good gunshop/range would be a great first, or rather next step. One that both offers professional training classes, and rental guns. You can get a good basic education that might just include a point or two inadvertantly passed over by your informal training. Plus the oportunity to actually get a hands on feel for various guns before you lay out the cash. More training is never wasted, and the opportunity to try various guns can be a lot of fun.
Now, to some suggestions. With your year round warm weather, an easily concealable "Mouse gun" (How fitting for an Orlando resident. ) like the Kel-Tec P3AT or Ruger LCP would be good. If you are uncomfortable with the power of tye 380ACP round, with a small loss of concealability you could step up to a mini-9 like the LC9, or offerings from other makers.
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Old February 9, 2014, 06:14 PM   #30
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wow. crap ton of replies to read through. so, thanks for all the suggestions. i certainly have a lot of guns to look at. also, i remembered why i trusted my friend and his father so much; the dad was a handgun trainer for the police in texas, as well as the FBI after he left the police. That, said i realize that i do have to get formal training, and i will of course when i get nearer to obtaining my CCW permit in the next few months.

also a few specific replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
I hear you say:
- first gun
- first handgun
- no formal training
- need CCW and HD gun
- have support buddy
- not sure how/where to carry

Questions to you:
- live alone or shared housing?
- HD or CCW more important?
I live with my girlfriend of 4 years, in a moderately safe area of florida, by that meaning there really isnt a SUPER safe part of florida, stuff happens occasionally just about everywhere.

i digress.

to me both are just as equally important, as i dont have boatloads of money to spend (im a recent college grad, might have forgotten to mention that.)

that said, i want something that will perform adequately for both purposes, something that i can keep next to the bedside for home defense, and something i can have on my person/in the car if we are out somewhere im not familiar with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaim
If you want the guns you mentioned, or any gun that is big enough to be reasonable for all duties (range, home defense, CCW), you will probably need to consider changing how you dress (it can be as little as going to shorts with belts). There are a wide range of styles of shorts that take belts. Then, with a good gun belt, an IWB holster and a tee shirt you could conceal just about anything you are comfortable carrying, even in shorts.
I am not opposed to adding a belt to my off-work-attire, i just havent gotten around to finding a belt, my job keeps me pretty busy.

im liking the size (online) of the S&W shield. i think ill add that to my list of candidates. both 9mm and .40

i watched this http://us.glock.com/confidence/videos#DqmTiIBIFV8

i will have to keep this in mind.
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Old February 9, 2014, 06:23 PM   #31
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"my friends father is definitely one of the few who knows what they are talking about. im not skeptical per se but if something seems off ill call someone out on it."
How would you know the difference? How would you know if something is "off" or not? Don't play games with your life or safety. If the LE in question does not have some kind of certification as an LE trainer, or a NRA certification at the very least ... walk away, so far as getting instruction is concerned.
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Old February 9, 2014, 06:25 PM   #32
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^^ read second page of posts. he is a certified instructor and taught both officers and FBI agents after retiring.
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Old February 9, 2014, 06:29 PM   #33
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While I've never heard of any serious issues with the Ruger SR line of guns, I won't own one. The SR line has an internal key lock, magazine disconnect, and a manual thumb safety. To me these features are superfluous and I loathe extra junk on my defensive guns. ...
Just fact-checking ...

There is no "internal key lock" on the SR series of pistols from Ruger. Period.

The magazine disconnect is of questionable utility, but can easily be removed in about 5 minutes time without affecting the reliability of the gun. Removing it gives the additional advantage of lightening the trigger pull a bit.

The thumb safety is a judgement call. I am not a huge fan of external safeties on guns unless they have an especially light trigger. The SR safeties have a strong bias towards staying "off" when in that position. What this means is that it can be carried this way without any realistic fear of accidentally being bumped "on".
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Old February 10, 2014, 01:17 AM   #34
chaim
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Quote:
I am not opposed to adding a belt to my off-work-attire, i just havent gotten around to finding a belt, my job keeps me pretty busy.
You may want to consider buying online. A good gun belt is a pretty heavy duty belt, the typical belts you buy at a clothing store won't cut it. Just about any major holster maker will also make gun belts. I've worn belts from Bianchi, Galco, Old El Paso Saddlery, and Gould & Goodrich. By far my favorite are Bullhide Belts:

http://www.bullhidebelts.com/Products_ep_45.html

They are sturdy, not overly expensive, better quality than the mass produced belts (like G&G, Galco and Bianchi), and faster than the custom belts from most smaller holster makers.
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Old February 10, 2014, 02:31 AM   #35
cavelamb
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While heavy slugs and high velocity sound wonderful at first blush, maybe
think about how many layers of sheet rock such bullets can penetrate.
(Two layers per interior wall)
There was a very public murder trial last year about exactly that.

Second - you won't find many new handguns that don't have a key lock
of some kind. Lawyers...

I have nothing against the Ruger SR1911. Good gun.
But I'd take a Springfield Range Officer first (If I were going to have a .45).
The match grade barrel and bushing mean more to me than the flashy
exterior features of the others.

But I don't collect 1911s. To me they are too big and bulky for comfortable
carry, and can penetrate more walls than I'd want a round going through -
outside of the movies.

In 18 years of carrying my .380 I've never fired it in anger.
I've never pulled it out for cause.
And only 3 or 4 times have even been thankful it was within reach.

But it's always there.

A .380 in your pocket is better than a .45 in the car.
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Old February 10, 2014, 04:42 AM   #36
ClydeFrog
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.380acp, NRA magazine, protection....

I can not understand some forum members & CCW holders support or use of the .380acp caliber.
In 2014, there are several sub-compact/lightweight .40/9x19mm/.45acp/etc semi auto pistols that are far better.
About 3 years ago, I read a printed article in a NRA article about .380acp defense type pistols. None of the models were 100% reliable or able to cycle/feed defense type ammunition correctly.
A .380acp is better than nothing but it's not ideal.
You can learn to properly shoot or train with a .40S&W, .357sig, 9mm, .45acp the same way you use a smaller .380acp pistol.
Smart armed professionals or CCW license holders often carry a sub compact pistol in the same caliber as a larger main EDC(everyday carry) model then they use spare mags in either weapon.
For example, you can buy a Glock 23 .40S&W compact & a smaller 27 as a back-up. Or a PX4 Storm pistol with a PX4 sub compact as a back-up/2nd gun.
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Old February 10, 2014, 09:15 AM   #37
cavelamb
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Sorry to dispute something you read, Clyde, but that proves not to be the case
with my .380 Bersa

It HAS been 100% reliable - for nearly two decades!

I don't know what more to tell you.
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Old February 10, 2014, 09:36 AM   #38
ryanjblajda
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ive actually added 2 .380 pistols to my candidates. the glock 42 and s&w bodyguard
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Old February 10, 2014, 07:00 PM   #39
Nathan
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Belt: Rick Garcia

I really like the belt I just got from Rick. The best I've used...way better than my bullhide. A bit thinner, but very supportive.

Last edited by Nathan; February 10, 2014 at 07:06 PM.
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Old February 10, 2014, 07:30 PM   #40
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynjblajda
^^ read second page of posts. he is a certified instructor and taught both officers and FBI agents after retiring.
Whoa!

Why don't YOU read the posts. Nowhere have you stated that he is certified by anyone, or what certification(s) he might hold or have held, and whether or not any certifications are current. Nor have you in any way identified the venues in which he was supposedly training LEOs in Texas and FBI agents. To be brutally honest, I ain't buying it. The likelihood of a Texas municipal officer or state police officer training FBI agents in firearms use is so ridiculously small that it's not even worth thinking about. It's more customary for state and municipal departments and agencies to send their officers to the FBI for advanced training.

Further, as has been mentioned more than twice, you do not have sufficient experience or knowledge to be able to judge whether or not what your friend's father is teaching you is valid or not. And without a lot more information about exactly who he trained for and what training he provided, nobody here can make that call for you.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 10, 2014 at 07:35 PM.
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Old February 10, 2014, 07:33 PM   #41
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Perhaps he meant "read" as in "past tense short form of I read," rather than "read" as in instructing others "to read?"
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Old February 10, 2014, 09:43 PM   #42
ryanjblajda
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Beginner Searching for a CCW

i had stated in an earlier post that he instructed firearms classes. and apparently i have been misunderstood, my friends father is not teaching me, my friend who was taught by his father will be.

just so were clear he isnt teaching me insanely complicated stuff, just the basics, accuracy, proper gun handling, how to combat the shakes, that kinda stuff

anyways, i will eventually get formal training, once im 21 an have more experience shooting in general.

Last edited by ryanjblajda; February 10, 2014 at 11:35 PM.
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Old February 11, 2014, 02:41 AM   #43
Cauhauna
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Ryan,

I live in Arizona, shorts and t-shirt year round. About a year ago, I bought my first CCW gun, and it was a 9mm Shield (Crossbreed Minituck). Eventually, I decided it was too big and bulky for everyday use (and it's a small single stack) and got the Bodyguard 380, which I now carry every day all the time (Crossbreed Appendix).

All this baloney about wearing a Hawaiian print shirt, fanny pack, baggy clothes, etc??? NO WAY dude. I'm 27, wear a regular tee shirt (not oversized), jeans or shorts (not baggy, in fact Levi 501), and the pistol DISAPPEARS in my waistband. I carry in an appendix holster at 2 or 3 o clock.

Why did I move away from the SW Shield ?

1) Most larger pistols (anything except seecamp, bg 380, lcp, etc) are usually carried at the 4 o clock or 5 o clock position, assuming you're going to carry IWB. I didn't like the pistol being behind me. What if you're disarmed? What if you need to keep your hands in front of you in a struggle? What if gun gets caught in shirt on the way out of holster? Lots of room for error.

2) Bending over or reaching up to get something would often expose pistol. Now, anyone nearby may know I'm packing. It was also REALLY annoying. Gotta grab items on bottom shelf at grocery store? Hello, exposed pistol. Old lady asks you to grab item on top shelf? Better hope you can grab it with 1 hand, because other hand will have to hold shirt over pistol or hope grandma doesn't mind when your gun becomes exposed.

3) My gun is behind me!!!!! See number 1!!! ugh!!!!!!!!!

4) I wasn't comfortable carrying the Shield without the safety being on. The trigger was a little light for my taste, but I worried that I may not take safety off in a defensive situation.


why BG 380:
-Trigger is heavy enough to carry w/ safety off
- very compact, no one ever knows I'm carrying.
-No worrying about gun being exposed in day to day life
-gun is in FRONT of me


I will say, unfortunately you need (at least) 2 guns, because no single gun is going to be perfectly concealable and fun to shoot. You will not find the BG fun to shoot at all, but you need practice. The BG (or LCP) can be painful after 50 or so rounds. 380 ammo is hard to find, and more expensive than 9mm. So, in addition to it not being fun to shoot, it's HARD to even have the opportunity to shoot it. I haven't tried the G42, but it's a little big for my taste.

The Shield wouldn't be a bad choice (9mm, not 40), but I do think it's a bit big. I wanted a gun that I would always have with me 100%.

You need to put lots of rounds down range. I shoot 3x a week, usually with my 22 buckmark camper and rotate out between my shield (now my nightstand gun), my bodyguard, and my 12 gauge (under bed gun) with the 22 so that each gun is shot once per week.



I know it's lengthy, but I just wanted to share my experience because there are a few similarities between my situation and yours.
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Old February 11, 2014, 07:49 AM   #44
Derbel McDillet
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Quote:
Bending over or reaching up to get something would often expose pistol.
With a holster at 4-5 o'clock, to keep from exposing your pistol in such situations: 1) Kneel to reach for things on the lower shelf, and 2) Reach with your support hand for things on the upper shelf.
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Old February 11, 2014, 10:54 AM   #45
Cauhauna
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Quote:
and 2) Reach with your support hand for things on the upper shelf.
I mentioned this in my post, but it still limits you to just one hand since the other is occupied.

I'm not saying that carrying at 4 or 5 o clock is awful -- it is comfortable. Just pointing out the drawbacks that I discovered in my experience.
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Old February 11, 2014, 11:59 AM   #46
ryanjblajda
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Beginner Searching for a CCW

So i went and shot with my friend today, it was a lot of fun, and i have definitely refined my list of candidates. anything ruger is out. the LC380 sucks. the trigger pull is so long, and if im using the term correctly it doesnt break until it practically hits the front of the grip.

i shot .40 s&w in my friends s&w SDVE and a ruger lc380.

im way more comfortable with recoil and size on the ruger, so i think have refined my candidate due to price and caliber to the glock 42

Last edited by ryanjblajda; February 11, 2014 at 01:44 PM.
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Old February 11, 2014, 03:04 PM   #47
Cauhauna
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As I said, you'll very likely need 2 pistols. No micro pistol is going to be fun to shoot. As you said, it sucks to shoot!
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Old February 11, 2014, 03:29 PM   #48
ryanjblajda
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The Ruger sucked to shoot just because of the trigger pull, the size and recoil were fine.

Last edited by ryanjblajda; February 11, 2014 at 04:53 PM.
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Old February 12, 2014, 07:18 PM   #49
ryanjblajda
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so im looking at some different holsters, IWB and other ones, and these kinda caught my eye, what do you guys think?

this one i think would work well for the type of shorts i wear.

http://masterofconcealment.com/pgrou...ts/?return=%3F

this looks like it would work well with hawaiian or collared shirts.

http://masterofconcealment.com/pgrou...ealment+Shirt/
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Old February 13, 2014, 03:29 PM   #50
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buttin' in

First?
A 38 Special-chambered S&W Airweight of whatever particular flavor you prefer.
But one of those.
First.
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