Beretta Pico 380 is +P rated?

[wild cat mccane]

I've read that the Pico is +p rated, but only randomly

Could someone point me to the manual or a Beretta reference to this +P rating?

(There is no +p in .380 spec-I know)

[Kwik2010]

NOTICE: The Beretta Pico is designed to safely use the ammunition
marked as +P. The extended use of +P ammunition may decrease the
component part service life expectancy.

That was copied and pasted from the Pico manual on page 17 that I downloaded from Beretta about 5 minutes ago after a google search. But as you said you were aware there is no 380 +p standard so I'm not sure what that manual would be referring to as theres no line between +p and +p+. I would be wary about it just because there is no set pressure limit once you break the standard 380 max (which, believe it's 26,500, but don't quote me). Just my opinion.

[wild cat mccane]

Awesome and thanks.

The Beretta Pico page doesn't say anything about +p capable.

How do you like yours?

[Kwik2010]

I got rid of it a while ago. It worked well for what it was but I'm more of a snub nose kinda guy. I never carried it and would rather spend my money on reloading so I didn't keep it very long. It shot straight and was utterly reliable in my hands. I liked the sights the best out of all my pocket guns.

[Kwik2010]

Another note just so you're aware. I'm not super computer savvy so whether or not that manual I downloaded is actually from the true Beretta I don't know.

[Cheapshooter]

As mentioned there is no such thing as 380+P. Only over pressure ammo hyped by boutique ammo makers for people who wish they had bought a 9MM instead.

[dogtown tom]

Cheapshooter As mentioned there is no such thing as 380+P. Only over pressure ammo hyped by boutique ammo makers for people who wish they had bought a 9MM instead.

This.
No SAAMI spec for .380+P ammunition.

While ammo produced by manufacturers as ".380+P" may actually exceed the SAAMI spec for .380 ammunition..........it isn't an industry standard.

Remember, "+P" means higher pressure, not necessarily higher performance.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/new...te=1&p=6515249

7. USE PROPER AMMUNITION.
Only use factory-loaded, new ammunition manufactured to industry
specifications: CIP (Europe and elsewhere), SAAMI® (U.S.A.).......

AMMUNITION
AMMUNITION (CARTRIDGE) NOTICE: Beretta specifically disclaims
responsibility for any damage or injury occurring with, or as the result
of using faulty, non-standard, “remanufactured”, hand-loaded or
reloaded ammunition, or cartridges other than those for which the
firearm was originally chambered. Serious damage or injury, even death,
could result from the use of incorrect ammunition, from firing against
bore obstructions and from propellant overloads. Use of improper
ammunition, such as listed previously, will void the manufacturer’s
warranty. Use only high-quality, commercially-manufactured ammunition
made in accordance with CIP (Europe and elsewhere) or SAAMI®
(USA) standards. Be certain that the ammunition is the appropriate
caliber and loading for the firearm and is clean, dry and in good
condition. The caliber of the pistol is marked on the back of the barrel,
visible from the ejection port.
NOTICE: The Beretta Pico is designed to safely use the ammunition
marked as +P. The extended use of +P ammunition may decrease the
component part service life expectancy.

Someone ought to let Beretta in on what SAAMI standards mean.

[Cheapshooter]

Wow, those Beretta lawyers can really use both sides of their mouths.....at the same time!

[Carl the Floor Walker]

There is in fact plus P ammo for 380. It is not "Boutique" and Beretta does state that it will shoot Plus P ammo as well as does Kahr. Just because "Sammi" does not list 380 does not mean it does not exist or that high pressure 380 in non-existent.

Fact, the Manual clearly states
NOTICE:
The Beretta Pico is designed to safely use the ammunition
marked as +P. The extended use of +P ammunition may decrease the
component part service life expectancy.




Fact-The Pico Not only shoots Hot ammo, it shoots it very well, with less recoil than most other guns shoot standard ammo. Why, just look at the Robust build of the gun. Everything on the gun is stainless steel (NOT aluminum) except the Modular Grip which is easy to change out. They even ship the gun with a stainless steel recoil guide rod. Look at the thickness of the Barrel of course all stainless. Look at the chassis, all stainless, look at the take down pin. Then do comparisons.
Even the magazines all all stainless to include the "follower". They look more like high end custom 1911 mags.
The gun is truly built like the proverbial "tank". And extremely reliable to boot.
If you want a gun that can handle hot or Plus P ammo, get one made of Stainless Steel, or at least has steel inserts at the stress points.








The Pico stainless barrel on left




Pic of the modular chassis (Note The Gen 2 and 3 now has only one recoil spring.

The Pico Gen 2 and 3 now has a great trigger. 05 freeplay and direct and smooth all the way through. Racking the slide is easy. Especially after breaking in the gun.
I stop counting how many total reliable rounds after 2500. And I mean seriously not one failure until I had completely worn out the recoil spring. After replacing it then again ran like a sewing machine. I also bought a second Pico which now has over 700 rounds without a failure.

[Cheapshooter]

There is in fact plus P ammo for 380. It is not "Boutique" and Beretta does state that it will shoot Plus P ammo as well as does Kahr. Just because "Sammi" does not list 380 does not mean it does not exist or that high pressure 380 in non-existent.

SAAMI is the industry organization that sets the standards, and there is no SAAMI 380+P pressure standards. Anything that claims to be is either loaded to pressure exceeding SAAMI accepted standards, or the boutique company selling it is just using the term for asvertising hype. Yes, boutique makers. Name one major ammo company claiming to have +P 380. Winchester?
Remington? Federal? Hornady? Speer? Bet you can't even find one of rhe foreign major makers claiming +P 380.

[PSP]

The question was "is the Pico +P rated?" Whether SAAMI rates .380 ammo as such is pretty much a moot point. Beretta states the gun is capable of +P when and if it ever is recognized by SAAMI. Therefore the answer is YES, according Beretta. I'll take their word for it. I think Beretta has a pretty good idea what pressures the gun will withstand.

[Hal]

Yes - but - they seem to contradict themselves and say:

Use only high-quality, commercially-manufactured ammunition
made in accordance with CIP (Europe and elsewhere) or SAAMI®
(USA) standards.

So - if SAAMI says there's no +P .380, then you can't run it - or you're ouside SAAMI spec and you run afoul of the disclaimer.

[Sharkbite]

How can it be "rated" for something that doesnt exist? Without a set pressure for a +P load it cant be rated for one.

Is it rated for 10,000 CPU over a standard .380 load...20,000? 2x the pressure..3x?? Without a standard, there cant be a "rated for".

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I believe we can all use common sense here, and realize that if "SAMMI" does not recognize 380 ammo, does not mean a hot load does not exist. 380 is just a smaller 9mm. Of course you can reload it to upper end limits according to the Powder manufacturers charts.
I recently shot PrecisionOne ammo as recommended by "Shooting the Bull". I now shoot PrecisionOne's standard 380. But recently bought and shot their New 380 Plus P.

Ruger LCP for example states:

LCP

pistols are compatible with standard factory ammunition
loaded to U.S. Industry Standards, including hollow-point loads loaded in brass
or aluminum cases. No 380 Auto ammunition manufactured in accordance with
NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or
known not to function in these pistols.
Do not use “+P” ammunition

So how can they tell you to not use Plus P is it does not exist?

Regardless, whether or not "SAMMI" included 380 Plus P, is a moot point. The point is that the Pistol is capable of shooting high Pressure ammo. It say's something about the build quality of that particular pistol.
I think we all get this. The only three manufactures I can think of that list the ability to shoot Plus P are the Kahr, Beretta and Kimber.
And they all all built from Stainless steel chassis vs 7075 Aluminum.
If you feel there is no difference in strength or durability of the two, and there is no such thing as a hot or Plus P ammo, then simply get a gun made out of Aluminum.
IMO, Pocket guns with the small size get one heck of explosion from shooting them. They take a beating no matter who the Manufacturer is. I want my guns to last a long time, handle any ammo sold with confidence the gun can handle it. I choose Stainless Steel over Aluminum. I prefer a Stainless barrel over Carbon Steel which is 30% stronger. Just my Preference. Not saying I am right, but experience has lead me down the path to make these buying decisions. JMO.

[Hal]

How can you say it's a moot point?

Beretta clearly says not to violate SAAMI or it voids the warranty.
Then they turn around and say it's ok to use +P.

So - what is it?
Is it ok or does it void the warranty?


Not to be a jerk - but - what Ruger or any other mfg says is a moot point since the OP is asking about the Beretta Pico specifically.

[wild cat mccane]

The OP is clearly talking about Underwood and Buffalo Bore.

However, tests show neither of their "+P" loads as doing anything special.

I guess the OP was just wondering if the gun handled higher pressure than others like the LCP which have blow up with those kind of loads.

The OP probably didn't mean to cause a disagreement as he stated in one of the three sentences he knows there is no "+P" rating.

[Cheapshooter]

So how can they tell you to not use Plus P is it does not exist?

Because some boutique ammo makers use the +P designation as advertising hype trying to make the naive believe they can turn a 380 into a 9MM Luger by usong tjeir over pressure ammunition.

like the LCP which have blow up with those kind of loads

Substantiated example? I've never heard of one "blowing up" because of using so called +P ammo. I would like to see documented proof if you have any.

[dogtown tom]

Carl the Floor Walker I believe we can all use common sense here, and realize that if "SAMMI" does not recognize 380 ammo, does not mean a hot load does not exist. 380 is just a smaller 9mm.

Um, yeah.............who ever in the history of this forum has said anything of the sort?

So how can they tell you to not use Plus P is it does not exist?

Spend five minutes and read up on what SAAMI is and does. You'll then learn why your argument doesn't hold water.

Regardless, whether or not "SAMMI" included 380 Plus P, is a moot point.

Well, no it isn't. Calling something "+P" when no such standard exists for .380acp is just marketing hype at the least and false advertising at best.

The point is that the Pistol is capable of shooting high Pressure ammo. It say's something about the build quality of that particular pistol.

Again, no it doesn't. It says a lot more about legal liability and yahoos that cram as much powder in the case as they can. If an actual SAAMI spec were set for .380 +P some idiot ammo manufacturer would start claiming his was 380+P+...........and guess what happens when some nitwit loads that into his 1920's JO.LO.AR.?

This is why there is no SAAMI spec for .25, .32 or .380..........too many old guns that can't handle the pressure of modern ammunition.

Guess why there is no .40S&W +P?

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Thank you Wild cat for trying to help with my opinion on Plus P ammo. Personally I could care less if there is Plus P rating or not. I do know that I have had a LCP crack a grip frame on a hot load. I also could care less about discussing the specifics on "Sammi" technical issues.

I also mentioned "Precison One" standard ammo vs their Plus P 380. Maybe they are lying that their is a difference, but they seem a reliable honest Manufacturer to me.
If they are being disingenuous, and passing off the Plus P just as a advertising gimmick, than yes, that would be sad. And then it would be just a :"boutique" ammo. (God, I hate that internet word, that is now common on internet gun forums, Maybe Lol, Sammi shoud list Boutique ammo rounds.)
And I also was trying to make the point on more than just Plus P ammo, but rather "Build Quality". and able to handle a hotter load would seem to have some significance. At least in durability, and for the long run regardless of shooting hot loads or just a lot of round count, of which I do.

The Original was inquiring about the Pico I believe, and I was more trying to help him, then to get into a internet "Sammi" blowout. I have owned 4 LCP's in the past 10 years and now own a Two Pico's which I shoot each week, so I am just giving my opinion. I am not a "SAMMI" expert, not do I care to be one. I am not a Lawyer for the Manufacturing companies, Sammi, or even a internet lawyer. I am also NOT a Ballistics expert, and most likely would not recognize a "Boutique round if I was shot by one. I just shoot pocket guns often and that is good enough for me. I am sure someone will pick apart if every word or every line I said and put me on the stand, lol. That is fine. Maybe I should just claim the fifth.

I will try and make another Personal observation. Looking at two of the Military and Police guns of recent, I see they share, what I view as a common trait. They are Modular, and they have a Stainless Steel construction vs a Aluminum. I would assume these guns are meant for a lot of rounds down range and for durability.

Ex. The Sig 320 and the Ruger American.





And the Beretta Pico"

*Note, the beefed up stainless steel, takedown Pin. Many that should tell you something.

Like I said, I do not want nor care to get into a flame war over what are "Sammi" specs. I get what the manufacturers are trying to say. Personally I just want a solid well built Pocket gun.

Note: I also said that if you do not believe there is hot ammo or Plus P, or a difference in the Manufacturers build quality, then just go ahead and get a gun that is built with with Aluminum. Not a big deal.

[amd6547]

"...The OP is clearly talking about Underwood and Buffalo Bore.

However, tests show neither of their "+P" loads as doing anything special...."
-wild cat McCane.

To say Underwood +P 380 does nothing special is incorrect. In my Beretta 84F, their XTP +P load does over 1200FPS, while delivering exceptional accuracy.

[Deaf Smith]

+P is overrated in mini-mouse guns.

If ya want a 9x19, get a 9x19.

Deaf

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Lol, Forget the darn PlusP nonsense and focus on build quality. IMO even a standard 380 round fired in a Mouse gun of any kind is high Pressure. Certainly a big explosion going on in a 10 ounce firearm.

Each to his own, but I personally will not buy a pocket 380 gun again with a "aluminum chassis", cheap rails, cheap take down pins etc. I will choose stainless Steel over aluminum every time.
The OP was talking about the Pico. Ok, I bought the Pico NOT because of any fact that I specifically shoot Plus P or hot loads, but because of quality placed into the firearm.
I am more concerned with high volume round count and longevity. I did not want to go the route I had taken before of crack frames, split rails, broken frame pins etc.
I did not want a throw a way pistol that just had to be repaired or replaced on a continuous basis. I wanted a milder shooting 380. The Pico has exceeded all my expectations and then some.
Maybe this is answering what I believe the OP was alluding to in his quest about the Pluse P question for the Pico or maybe I am wrong and he just wanted to go after the Plus P notation in the manual.

[East Texan]

Is there a way to tell if you’re looking at a second or third generation Pico?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laz]

My current firearms in .380 include a Gen 1 and Gen 2 LCP, A P238HD, and a P238 Extreme with an alloy frame. Personally I think Carl has made his point very well that it is not about Plus P or SAAMI but about that he likes the solid construction of the stainless steel barrel and chassis of the Pico. That makes perfect sense to me. It is what I love about the 238HD but that steel exacts about a 4+ ounce penalty. That Beretta was able to build with steel at a small weight penalty is a plus. For carry with low volume shooting, perhaps it doesn’t matter. For peace of mind with regular shooting, his argument makes perfect sense to me. Like he said, people with other opinions are free to choose whatever they like. I plan on taking a new look at the Pico but I must say that small butt and the overall look is not overly appealing to me. The steel chassis is.

[BOOGIE the oily]

Ok, being that, experience wise, I'm clearly outgunned here (yeah, pun definitely intended ), I'm gonna add my 2 cents some other way: let's talk numbers.

Beretta is an Italian company (I'm sure none of you knew that ). Italy is a CIP member.
Now, there's a difference between CIP and SAAMI, which is that, while SAAMI's guidelines are just that, and their compliance is voluntary, CIP rules are of mandatory compliance for all member countries.

So, CIP establishes that every gun manufactured by a member country must be proofed at 130% it's caliber's pressure.

That means, for a .380's normal operating pressure of 21500 psi, any CIP gun for that caliber must be proofed at 27950 psi.

Meanwhile, while not mandatory, SAAMI established a +P standard at +10% or less the cartridge's normal pressure, so, if somebody wanted to reload .380 cartridges to +P levels, they should load them to 23650 psi at the most. That is, at least, 4300 psi less than the pistol's rating.

So that means that, yes, in fact, every beretta, and every other handgun that's been manufactured under CIP's rules, is, in fact, +P rated, even if, worst case scenario (if not explicitly +P rated), at a lower safety margin.