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Old July 1, 2018, 05:26 PM   #1
Dudechevy
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30-30 to hard to resize

i have never reloaded 30-30, but have reloaded a few rifle cartridges. When I try to resize my once fired brass, it is too hard to push the bass once the necked down area gets into the die. I am using a hornady lnl press with the hornady reloading dies. I have been using hornady Unique case lube.

before resizing the out side of my neck are .328, after they are .317

I have seen on other sites where people suggest using Imperial case lube. I have some ordered but have not gotten it yet.

any other suggestions are welcomed.

David
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Old July 1, 2018, 06:30 PM   #2
ligonierbill
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Not sure what's happening, but something is wrong, maybe with your die. My fired cases also measure 0.328. So do new cases. SAAMI spec is 0.3301. I haven't run any 30-30 for awhile, but your sized cases sound pretty small.
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Old July 1, 2018, 07:36 PM   #3
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3030

Contact Hornady Manufacturing for their input.
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Old July 1, 2018, 07:36 PM   #4
Dudechevy
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ligonierbill,

you may be right. The inside neck diameter is running .297 to .299 after resizing. Before resizing the measurement is .304.

I will call hornady tomorrow to ask them.

Thanks,
David
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Old July 2, 2018, 01:52 PM   #5
T. O'Heir
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Changing lubes isn't going to change how much the die sizes. However, loading .30-30 isn't any different that any other case. Except for a lever action you must FL resize every time. I'm guessing you may not have the die set up right. May be down too far. The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up.
Or it may be the wrong die if it's sizing to .317" OD. The .330" is the nominal OD of the neck. What's the case length from the case mouth to the base?
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Old July 3, 2018, 06:19 AM   #6
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Have found the Lee sizing dies useful for the larger lever action cartridges. The Redding/RCBS dies tried acted like small base dies and had to be adjusted up past the usual. No experience with the other makes.

The Lee dies did not size the dia down nearly as far, and now use them for my standard lever action calibers. And yes, this info is dated as have not purchased any lever action dies for at least 10 years.
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Old July 3, 2018, 08:28 AM   #7
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My Marlin 336 has a pretty tight chamber, so I have to bang the shell plate to get them sized down far enough to not give me chambering problems. I resize on a Hornady LNL single-stage press and don't have problems.

I have had problems with Hornady OneShot case lube, however... I've stuck a few cases in my day. Read the directions... I hose my brass down pretty good... and then let them set for 5 minutes or so. Make sure you shoot a little in the case mouth, too.
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Old July 3, 2018, 10:58 AM   #8
F. Guffey
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I'm guessing you may not have the die set up right. May be down too far. The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up.
I have no clue what press the OP is using; I have two sets of directions for adjusting dies in the/a press. One method/technique describes adjusting the die in a cam over press. I also have the adjusting instructions for the non cam over press; problem, the reloaders does not know the difference between the two presses.

Some reloaders have so much time invested in including the term 'cam over' in their responses that want to change the meaning of the term. For me? If the press I am using is brown it is a cam over press. If I am using a green colored press and it is called a 'Rock Chucker' it is not a cam over press.

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Old July 3, 2018, 12:17 PM   #9
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What die are you using ? Is it a full length sizing die or a neck only sizing die ? I use the same press and die manufacture as well as case lube as you are . I have no issues sizing 30-30 cases . The unique sizing lube is very good and should not be the problem . Imperial "might" be better but not enough to be the answer here IMO .
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Old July 3, 2018, 01:58 PM   #10
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My Marlin 336 has a pretty tight chamber, so I have to bang the shell plate to get them sized down far enough to not give me chambering problems.
My 30-30 cases have rims. no one measures case rim thicknesses. I am the fan of using the thickest rim available. When it comes to banging on the press when using my no name lube I find shimming the case head off of the deck of the shell holder a cure for what most reloaders do not understand about sizing a case.

And then there is that thing about cases with resistance to sizing.

When reloaders complain to me about tiny and or short chambers I suggest they establish a therapy class for reloaders with small chambers. Again; I size cases for go-gage length chambers, I size cases for field reject length chambers and I size cases for short chambers and! when showing off I size cases for every length chamber. When chambering a barrel where else is there to start but with a case that will fit a short chamber; I am the fan of wanting to know how far I am required to go to finish the chamber..

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Old July 3, 2018, 03:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
The inside neck diameter is running .297 to .299 after resizing. Before resizing the measurement is .304.
Not trying to sound like I'm nitpicking, but before resizing neck ID should be .308" or greater or the case won't let go of the .308" bullet (with a tight match chamber it might be .306"-.307" due to brass rebound). Most chambers are generous enough so there is often .005"-.006" of clearance. After sizing neck I usually see .300"-.302" ID to ensure adequate neck tension.

If you are experiencing difficulty inserting the brass into the resizing die, try moving your decapper down a bit. Otherwise, sounds to me like your rifle's chamber is oversized.
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Old July 3, 2018, 06:38 PM   #12
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Dude,
Something not right with the die, the outside of the resisized neck should be between .330 to .333 ...... .317 is just wrong. No way a .308 bullet is going to fit into that neck .

I typically size & load 30-30 on a little Lee Hand Press , with only Lee case lube it is no problem to resize them . Case lube isn't the problem here.
Hornady will get them squared away for you.

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Old July 5, 2018, 08:47 AM   #13
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My 30-30 cases have rims. no one measures case rim thicknesses. I am the fan of using the thickest rim available. When it comes to banging on the press when using my no name lube I find shimming the case head off of the deck of the shell holder a cure for what most reloaders do not understand about sizing a case.

And then there is that thing about cases with resistance to sizing.

When reloaders complain to me about tiny and or short chambers I suggest they establish a therapy class for reloaders with small chambers. Again; I size cases for go-gage length chambers, I size cases for field reject length chambers and I size cases for short chambers and! when showing off I size cases for every length chamber. When chambering a barrel where else is there to start but with a case that will fit a short chamber; I am the fan of wanting to know how far I am required to go to finish the chamber..
In my 336's case (literally...) I had my brass sized for my brother's 336, where the bottom of the size die barely tapped the shell holder... those rounds did not chamber in my 336 without a bit of force on the lever. Case rim is of no matter... the sizing die sizes on the down stroke, so no matter the rim thickness the case is still bottomed out against the shell holder. I do agree with you on shimming up the case, if there is an issue; I just loaded up another 150 rounds for my 336... so we will soon see. I may wind up having to alter my process to accommodate my 336 in particular.

As far as all that minutiae about sizing for all those different sized chambers... I don't go there. I expect my rounds to fit in any reasonable chamber.
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Old July 5, 2018, 02:19 PM   #14
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In my 336's case (literally...) I had my brass sized for my brother's 336, where the bottom of the size die barely tapped the shell holder..
May I ask when do you measure that barely tap the shell holder , Before sizing or while sizing ?
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Old July 5, 2018, 02:42 PM   #15
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Dudechevy,

While it is correct that 0.3301" is the SAAMI drawing neck OD at the mouth (0.003" thicker at the neck), it is easy to forget that SAAMI uses the practice of giving a critical dimension (a limit) with unilateral tolerance in the safe direction away from that critical value. Thus, cartridge numbers are maximums with a minus tolerance because it is critical that the finished item fit in a chamber, and chamber numbers are minimums with a plus tolerance for that same reason. In other words, the printed numbers are the biggest you can make a cartridge and the smallest you can make a chamber and expect them to be able to work together.

For the 30-30 Win cartridge neck and other diameters the tolerance is -0.008". Most manufacturers aim at about the middle of the range so their slightly over or undersized output still meets the standard. In other words, their target diameter value will be the drawing number -0.004". For the 30-30 case mouth, loaded with a bullet under it, 0.3261" would be the average and the expected most common value. Some makers may go a bit thicker for brass strength, but it can also be as thin as 0.3221" and still meet the standard. A typical resized case will be 0.001"-0.003" smaller after being drawn over the expander to produce the interference fit that holds onto the bullet. Because a resizing die has to work with the thinnest brass the standard allows for, you would expect a sizing die to bring the OD down to about 0.317"-0.319" before the expander sets the final ID. However, if the neck is not minimally thick, one would expect the expander to bring it out to a larger diameter than you are measuring.

The above makes me wonder if you have the correct expander in your die. You can remove it and measure it. We would expect to see it about 0.306" at the widest place.

I think you may be getting a measuring error on the inside of the case mouth. If you are using calipers, it's pretty common for the ID jaws, which have small flats on them, to report case mouth ID's about 0.002-0.003" undersize. They work well measuring between two inner flat surfaces, but not for small round holes. You need pin gauges or a small hole gauge to make a transfer measurement.

A better approach with calipers (a micrometer is better for this, and is what I usually recommend for this kind of measurement; this outfit has a basic one for $17) is to stick to O.D.'s. Measure the outside of a bullet all around and take your average result. The bullets are usually 0.308-0.3085", but we need to calibrate your calipers. Even if the absolute measurement is off by a thousandth, the difference should be pretty close to correct. Next, make the same measurement of the resized neck all around and average your result for that, too. Finally, seat the bullet you measured and measure the neck OD over top of the bullet bearing surface.

This information will tell us how thick your case necks are.

One other thing that occurs to me is that you should try resizing one case with the expander removed. Let's make sure the expander isn't too high up in the die. That will also increase sizing effort substantially.
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Old July 5, 2018, 07:13 PM   #16
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May I ask when do you measure that barely tap the shell holder , Before sizing or while sizing ?
Before sizing... which, I'm thinking, is part of the problem with my 'new' 336 vs my brother's. That's the way I set up the die... uh, 25 years ago... and it's worked all this time.
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Old July 5, 2018, 07:30 PM   #17
Metal god
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Before sizing... which, I'm thinking, is part of the problem with my 'new' 336 vs my brother's.
Correct , If the die and shell holder are just barely touching before sizing . You will actually have more space to turn down the die .

This is set up as you describe , die and shell holder just barely touching before sizing my 308 case


This is what that same set up looks like when I actually size a case



As you can see , the flex in the linkage as well as the deflection in the press do to the load being exerted on the press creates a gap between the die and shell holder . Give it a try and look and see if you have that same gap when sizing a case . If so just screw the die down a little more and you should be good to go . It's not likely you'll need to shim the case up in the shell holder if you can chamber the cases with some resistance as they are now .

Here is what the shimming idea is if need be

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Old July 6, 2018, 07:05 AM   #18
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No, I dig what you are saying. Interestingly, I originally loaded on an RCBS RS3 press, I switched some years ago to a Hornady single-stage LNL press... a bigger press with more leverage. What I've found is more flex in components using the Hornady press, I just don't think the linkage is as tight as the little RCBS, and there are inherent problems with the LNL bushings... at the end of the day, I don't really care for the Hornady press, or the LNL system. Thank God my progressive is the older ProJector, the pre-LNL press.
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Old July 6, 2018, 11:27 AM   #19
F. Guffey
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Case rim is of no matter...
Not to you or any other reloader but to me it matters.

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Old July 7, 2018, 06:23 AM   #20
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Dude, are you lightly lubing the inside of the neck?
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Old August 16, 2018, 09:05 PM   #21
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I know this thread is a few weeks old, but I just saw it.

One thing nobody mentioned was the AMOUNT of lube on his brass. I'm old-school, still use a pad to roll brass on, and if I let the pad get kinda dry, the same thing happens. Don't skimp on the lube...Plus, lightly lubing the inside of the neck makes a big difference pulling the expander ball back through. One thing I've found is, the myth about being necessary to FL size every firing in the same gun. I use a Lee Collet sizing die, and only FL size about every 5th loading, and only then to set the shoulder back a little. Yes, I chamber EVERY case after sizing to be POSITIVE all is good before loading. Then some BL-C(2) and a Hornady FTX 160gr makes me happy!

I load 30-30 pretty often, 'cause I love to shoot it! Ringing steel at 150 standing, offhand, iron sights is a lot of fun. I wind up shooting the old 336 more than my Service Rifles that I love so dearly.

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Old September 3, 2018, 10:17 AM   #22
Dudechevy
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What I finally done that fixed the problem was dissembled the resizing die, and used a polishing compound inside the die. It resizes so much easier. There must have been a bur or some roughness inside that was causing it to be so hard to resize.
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Old September 3, 2018, 11:20 AM   #23
F. Guffey
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What I finally done that fixed the problem was dissembled the resizing die, and used a polishing compound inside the die. It resizes so much easier. There must have been a bur or some roughness inside that was causing it to be so hard to resize.
Ever time I lock a press down when sizing a case I know I am going to use a stuck case puller. When I clean a die I use a towel on a dowel. The color of the towel does not matter when I start but it is important to finish with a white towel. The white towel allows me to know when I have finished.

Using an abrasive inside the die? It has taken me years to get my dies the way I want them, I could use a liquid cleaner, I could use an abrasive; problem; cleaning the die inside with aggressive methods requires me to start over. I like the shiny/mirror finish, the shiny/mirror finish is easier to clean with a towel on a dowel.

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