Fall Turkey hunting Ethics question.

Guillermo · September 19, 2007, 11:51 AM

I’m an avid, and ethical, hunter of many years and of just about everything in Washington State, but WA has just started allowing a Fall Turkey hunt so this is new to me.

We have an either sex hunt coming up. Limit of 3. In Eastern States I always thought best to never to take a Tom in the fall since they are needed then and to wait until after early spring mating season. However the big game rules pamphlet says nothing advising not to take a Tom this Fall.

So is the taking of Tom’s already factored into the expected number of fall turkey hunters and the limit imposed making it acceptable for me to take a Tom for the Thanksgiving table, or should I go with a Hen? Would love a Tom, but I want to do the right thing – does anyone know or have input?

Many Thanks in advance!

FirstFreedom · September 19, 2007, 12:03 PM

The Game Dept's rules are likely well thought out, with solid reasoning behind them. If they say a tom is alright, take a tom! Just double check the rules for clarification, if you have any doubt.

I personally prefer to try and take a hen in the fall (we can take either), so that way there are less hens in the spring - the less hens in that ratio, the easier it is (relatively) to get a large tom to come to your calls. In fact, I wish we could take a hen in the spring too, to even out the numbers a bit. In the spring, since we can get 3 toms total, I shoot the first and every tom that comes along, and just hope for a big one. But in the fall, I'm going to *try* not to shoot a tom unless it's the big one - want that hen instead.

Doyle · September 19, 2007, 12:45 PM

You can shoot all the mature goblers you want and it won't hurt the turkey populaton (just don't shoot the jakes). Turkeys aren't like deer. Deer need a ratio of about 4 to 6 does to each breeding buck. Any more does than that and they won't get bred due to the way does make bucks chase them. A poor buck only has enough energy to chase a certain amoun of does each year.

Male turkeys however are like bull cattle. They'll mate as many hens as there are hens available. So, as long as jakes are left alone in the fall, there will always be enough males around to service the hens. A turkey that is a jake in the fall will be able to mate in the spring (as long as there aren't bigger birds around to fight him off).

Guillermo · September 19, 2007, 01:45 PM

Thank you both for the fast, intelligent replies. It looks like if the opportunity arises I will put a Tom on our Thanksgiving platter

NRA4life · September 19, 2007, 04:45 PM

Just coincidentally, when I lived in MO, I took a very large tom one year in the fall. I don't know what this old boy had been eating, but it was the most foul (pardon the pun) tasting critter I have ever tasted. It wasn't spoiled either, as I had him skinned and on ice within an hour or so and the weather was fairly cold. One thing to point out also is (I was told) that you cannot get them mounted in the fall. The taxidermist claimed they are molting at that time of year and the bases of the feathers are full of liquid that cannot be preserved. I always preferred taking the small jakes and jennies in the fall. They are mighty tasty.

Whereabouts will you be hunting?

Guillermo · September 19, 2007, 05:26 PM

I'll be hunting Eastern WA. I have had some vehicle problems so I have not been scouting as much as I would like, so I can't be any more specific yet, sorry.

I have heard lots of good turkey reports from all over the state, so I am hoping to have a good season.

Hans · September 20, 2007, 03:51 PM

Just curious, but can you call in turkeys in the fall? Never tried it, or done a fall turkey hunt. If not, how do you hunt them? Spot and stalk?

NRA4life · September 20, 2007, 05:05 PM

Very easy to call them in the fall. I've done it numerous times. The big tom I mentioned earlier, I called in to 15 feet. You generally use different types of calls though. Long hen yelps and ki-ki runs that imitate the older hens and juveniles. One technique is to find a flock and scatter it. Then use these calls to try to get them to re-assemble back where you busted them. It does work.

castnblast · September 20, 2007, 05:58 PM

Like the first poster stated, the laws are well thought out. They wouldn't put something on the books that is going to risk depleting the stock. That said, if you are following the laws, then it's ethical. No sense in second guessing. enjoy your hunt and your table fare.

crowbeaner · September 20, 2007, 07:31 PM

NRA4life; I've seen the turkeys following the manure spreader to pick out the corn in the cow manure in the winter. I always thought I'd like to have a smoked wild turkey for Christmas but they say you are what you eat, and if I wanted to eat leftover cow poo I'd have stayed in the dairy business. Just my humble $0.02. CB.

buck460XVR · September 22, 2007, 12:01 PM

Fall is a good time to practice your turkey calls and to learn new ones. You cannot....I repeat, cannot over call in the fall as long as you don't mess up. Some of my most successfull spring call sequences, I learned in the fall while being surrounded by a flock of turkeys.Have called in both toms and hens in the fall with the same calls.....have had Toms even gobble back at my calls in early November. No bigger trophy in the turkey world than callin' in a Tom in the fall.

FirstFreedom · September 23, 2007, 02:24 PM

So, buck, you use mating yelps and even cutting in the fall with success? Not just the ki-ki run or assembly call or clucks?

buck460XVR · September 25, 2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

So, buck, you use mating yelps and even cutting in the fall with success? Not just the ki-ki run or assembly call or clucks?

Altho I have watched hens being bred, I've yet to hear them yelp during the act.

I consider all yelps assembly calls, even in the spring the shorter 2-3 yelps are a type of assembly call.... and in the fall toms and jakes will use a similar shorter series to assemble than do the hens and jenny's....with ki-ki's being just another form of yelping. Cutting is just pissed off clucking.....and yes I have had success with cutting in the fall, especially when thrown in at the end of a aggressive long winded assembly call or after a fly-down cackle.

NRA4life · September 26, 2007, 10:22 AM

Crowbeaner,

That's funny and reminded me of something. Whenever I'd kill a turkey, I would cut open it's crop after I removed it to see what the beast had been eating. I figured this was good info in the least. That nasty tasting tom I mentioned had a crop stuffed full of walking sticks. I always wondered if this old boy just had a sweet tooth for bugs and thats why he tasted like %&^$.

September 19, 2007, 11:51 AM	#1
Guillermo Junior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Posts: 6	Fall Turkey hunting Ethics question. I’m an avid, and ethical, hunter of many years and of just about everything in Washington State, but WA has just started allowing a Fall Turkey hunt so this is new to me. We have an either sex hunt coming up. Limit of 3. In Eastern States I always thought best to never to take a Tom in the fall since they are needed then and to wait until after early spring mating season. However the big game rules pamphlet says nothing advising not to take a Tom this Fall. So is the taking of Tom’s already factored into the expected number of fall turkey hunters and the limit imposed making it acceptable for me to take a Tom for the Thanksgiving table, or should I go with a Hen? Would love a Tom, but I want to do the right thing – does anyone know or have input? Many Thanks in advance!

September 20, 2007, 03:51 PM	#7
Hans Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Location: Montana Posts: 421	Just curious, but can you call in turkeys in the fall? Never tried it, or done a fall turkey hunt. If not, how do you hunt them? Spot and stalk? __________________ G26, Ruger LCP Ruger 10/22, Wyndham AR-15 5.56x45 Savage 111 LWH .270 Win. Without the 2nd Amendment, none of the others would exist.

September 20, 2007, 05:58 PM	#9
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Like the first poster stated, the laws are well thought out. They wouldn't put something on the books that is going to risk depleting the stock. That said, if you are following the laws, then it's ethical. No sense in second guessing. enjoy your hunt and your table fare. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

September 19, 2007, 12:03 PM	#2
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	The Game Dept's rules are likely well thought out, with solid reasoning behind them. If they say a tom is alright, take a tom! Just double check the rules for clarification, if you have any doubt. I personally prefer to try and take a hen in the fall (we can take either), so that way there are less hens in the spring - the less hens in that ratio, the easier it is (relatively) to get a large tom to come to your calls. In fact, I wish we could take a hen in the spring too, to even out the numbers a bit. In the spring, since we can get 3 toms total, I shoot the first and every tom that comes along, and just hope for a big one. But in the fall, I'm going to try not to shoot a tom unless it's the big one - want that hen instead.

September 19, 2007, 12:45 PM	#3
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	You can shoot all the mature goblers you want and it won't hurt the turkey populaton (just don't shoot the jakes). Turkeys aren't like deer. Deer need a ratio of about 4 to 6 does to each breeding buck. Any more does than that and they won't get bred due to the way does make bucks chase them. A poor buck only has enough energy to chase a certain amoun of does each year. Male turkeys however are like bull cattle. They'll mate as many hens as there are hens available. So, as long as jakes are left alone in the fall, there will always be enough males around to service the hens. A turkey that is a jake in the fall will be able to mate in the spring (as long as there aren't bigger birds around to fight him off).

September 19, 2007, 01:45 PM	#4
Guillermo Junior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Posts: 6	Thank you both for the fast, intelligent replies. It looks like if the opportunity arises I will put a Tom on our Thanksgiving platter

September 19, 2007, 04:45 PM	#5
NRA4life Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: WA Posts: 183	Just coincidentally, when I lived in MO, I took a very large tom one year in the fall. I don't know what this old boy had been eating, but it was the most foul (pardon the pun) tasting critter I have ever tasted. It wasn't spoiled either, as I had him skinned and on ice within an hour or so and the weather was fairly cold. One thing to point out also is (I was told) that you cannot get them mounted in the fall. The taxidermist claimed they are molting at that time of year and the bases of the feathers are full of liquid that cannot be preserved. I always preferred taking the small jakes and jennies in the fall. They are mighty tasty. Whereabouts will you be hunting?

September 19, 2007, 05:26 PM	#6
Guillermo Junior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Posts: 6	I'll be hunting Eastern WA. I have had some vehicle problems so I have not been scouting as much as I would like, so I can't be any more specific yet, sorry. I have heard lots of good turkey reports from all over the state, so I am hoping to have a good season.

September 20, 2007, 05:05 PM	#8
NRA4life Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: WA Posts: 183	Very easy to call them in the fall. I've done it numerous times. The big tom I mentioned earlier, I called in to 15 feet. You generally use different types of calls though. Long hen yelps and ki-ki runs that imitate the older hens and juveniles. One technique is to find a flock and scatter it. Then use these calls to try to get them to re-assemble back where you busted them. It does work.

September 20, 2007, 07:31 PM	#10
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	NRA4life; I've seen the turkeys following the manure spreader to pick out the corn in the cow manure in the winter. I always thought I'd like to have a smoked wild turkey for Christmas but they say you are what you eat, and if I wanted to eat leftover cow poo I'd have stayed in the dairy business. Just my humble $0.02. CB.

September 22, 2007, 12:01 PM	#11
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Fall is a good time to practice your turkey calls and to learn new ones. You cannot....I repeat, cannot over call in the fall as long as you don't mess up. Some of my most successfull spring call sequences, I learned in the fall while being surrounded by a flock of turkeys.Have called in both toms and hens in the fall with the same calls.....have had Toms even gobble back at my calls in early November. No bigger trophy in the turkey world than callin' in a Tom in the fall.

September 23, 2007, 02:24 PM	#12
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	So, buck, you use mating yelps and even cutting in the fall with success? Not just the ki-ki run or assembly call or clucks?

September 26, 2007, 10:22 AM	#14
NRA4life Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: WA Posts: 183	Crowbeaner, That's funny and reminded me of something. Whenever I'd kill a turkey, I would cut open it's crop after I removed it to see what the beast had been eating. I figured this was good info in the least. That nasty tasting tom I mentioned had a crop stuffed full of walking sticks. I always wondered if this old boy just had a sweet tooth for bugs and thats why he tasted like %&^$.