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October 10, 2017, 03:42 PM | #1 |
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Brady Center Sues SlideFire Solutions
LAS VEGAS (KSNV News3LV) — A class action lawsuit has been filed in the District Court of Clark County on behalf of the Las Vegas shooting victims.
The suit, which is filed by Las Vegas law firm Eglet Prince and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, is against Slide Fire Solutions, LP and the sellers, manufacturers, and marketers of "bump stock" devices. More here. http://news3lv.com/news/local/bump-s...ooting-victims The PLCAA protects firearms manufactures and dealers from being held liable when crimes are committed with their products. So, my question is, are Firearm accessories like Bump Stocks covered under the PLCAA statute or are they susceptible to these types of lawsuits? |
October 10, 2017, 04:12 PM | #2 |
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How does the Brady bunch have standing in this to sue?
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October 10, 2017, 05:48 PM | #3 |
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Im not sure if they're covered but the case will go no where.
They had an approval letter from the ATF, they were conducting legit business. I don't see how they could possibly from any sort of coherent case. What it does do is get them attention and probably some donations. |
October 10, 2017, 06:35 PM | #4 | |
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We may just get it right !!!
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I might add that last weekend, some dealers were asking $800.00+ for these. Be Safe !!!
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October 10, 2017, 06:41 PM | #5 | |
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October 10, 2017, 07:39 PM | #6 |
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The Prince Law Blog had an interesting discussion of that same subject. The short version: Who knows?
https://blog.princelaw.com/category/firearms-law/ |
October 10, 2017, 07:51 PM | #7 |
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Hope this one gets thrown out.
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October 10, 2017, 09:02 PM | #8 | ||
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From the article. Quote:
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October 10, 2017, 09:54 PM | #9 |
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I guess I'll never quite understand this angle from the anti-gunners. (Suing Firearms makers for crimes committed with their devices)
If it were to be possible to hold them civilly liable, it would open a can of worms that would extend far beyond firearms. How about suing Coors Brewing company for a drunken driver killing a family? If there were no booze, then we wouldn't have drunks right? Coors would say drinking to excess is misuse of thier product, but nonetheless, people drink too much and hurt/kill others. I have family members who were killed by one such drunk driver... So let's ban booze or sue anyone who makes it!.oh wait we tried that once already. |
October 10, 2017, 10:00 PM | #10 | |
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If I remember right (and please, correct me if I'm wrong, just going from memory here...) a couple (actually a husband and wife) that were on their staff lived there. So, they got standing to sue. IF any Brady bunch staff lives in Vegas or was at the concert, that might do it. This is an interesting point, because, thanks to their track record, only an idiot, or a "true believer" (but then, I repeat myself...) would allow themselves to be used by the Brady bunch to do this. Last time, Brady got their employees to sue, no doubt with whispered promises of helping with /covering their legal costs. Certainly, nothing in writing. The case was tossed, and the couple got ordered to pay a fine, AND both sides legal costs. Something on the order of $60-80,000 if I remember right. The Brady bunch hung their patsy out to dry, coughing up not one penny to help them pay their costs. Last I heard, that couple had filed bankruptcy, and had a web site begging for donations to pay their fines.... So much for honor among gun grabbers...
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October 10, 2017, 11:43 PM | #11 |
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Well, that didn't take long, did it?
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October 11, 2017, 12:35 AM | #12 | |
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October 11, 2017, 07:22 AM | #13 |
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Here is a copy of the ATF Determination letter on Slide-Fire.
https://www.scribd.com/document/3606...omatic-Weapon# |
October 11, 2017, 08:14 AM | #14 | |
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I don't think they'll win this either, but they'll definitely succeed in making the manufacturer re-evaluate whether it's worth making these things. |
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October 11, 2017, 08:57 AM | #15 |
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1st and foremost. I get wanting some kind of justice, closure, revenge. We have to understand lots of folks had and are having the worst days of their lives and even if they are lashing out that doesn't make them the enemy. It makes them wounded and hurt and looking for something to make sense of it all.
2nd suing any of the players SHOULD NOT be allowed standing unless they showed actual criminal intent or true negligence. I mean hey if it's found that the gun store wink wink sold him the guns knowing something was gonna happen then fine sue. If the hotel saw the rifles setup at the window then yeah have at it.....etc. To sue the device maker is a true slippery slope. Cannot sue the firearms maker but if he hadn't had that aimpoint it would have been so much better so let's sue aimpoint or leupold. How about samsonite for having suitcases big enough to hide the guns and ammo. How about honda or Ford or whomever made the car he drove. The point is I hope our legal system handles these kinds of suits as they should but when they come from the victims let's remember they are wounded in many ways and we have all lashed out at the insanity of something or another when we have no recourse. As for the Brady suits......those people are manipulative and uncaring to the extreme and I suspect they will entice many folks to make poor decisions that will wound them further.
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October 11, 2017, 09:18 AM | #16 | ||
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IIRC one of the items on the wishlist was that semi-auto rifles that accept detachable magazines would be "voluntarily" dropped from production, and FFLs would "agree" not to perform BCs on said semi-auto rifles, thus making it effectively illegal to transfer one across state lines. The PLCAA was enacted specifically to forestall these sorts of legal actions. Quote:
I suspect that Brady's strategy is to rely on the spurious legal argument that the SlideFire stock is somehow not a "firearm part" pursuant to the PLCAA, and their primary goal is to find a venue with an anti-gun judge who will let them take their time publicly venting their anti-gun bile before the suit is inevitably thrown out. They will then use this "failure" as an argument in favor of repealing the PLCAA. A likely secondary goal is to drive SlideFire out of business, wagering that no major organization such as the NRA or NSSF will come to their defense. Even if the Bradys are eventually forced to pay SlideFire's legal bills, it may be too late to save the company; IOW it may be a Pyrrhic victory for SlideFire.
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October 11, 2017, 09:33 AM | #17 | |
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October 11, 2017, 01:39 PM | #18 | ||
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However what you can do is ask the ATF a legal question or evaluate a product and they will render an opinion.. since ATF is the ones that enforce gun laws in this country I would assume their own rendered opinions would have SOME weight. EX: The recent letter on shouldering pistol braces.. namely the sig stablizer. Quote:
I don't recall that as ever being a marketing angle on bump stocks, trigger cranks and binary triggers. Im not saying someone making one of those products hasn't tried to use that as a marketing ploy but I don't recall ever seeing such personally. |
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October 11, 2017, 03:07 PM | #19 | |
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What was the marketing angle on them? |
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October 11, 2017, 04:16 PM | #20 |
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To quote the owner of a local gunshop up here, "Turning money into noise".
Probably not the official marketing strategy. I've had the opportnity twice to shoot actual full auto, and greatly appreciated the shooters at the range who offered to let me give it a go. If I ever do get filthy rich, I wouldn't mind indulging the resources to purchase a transferable auto rifle. Because if I was that rich, I certainly wouldn't mind burning $45 worth of ammo in a few short seconds. But I am not wealthy, and thus have not had any interest in the bump fire stocks. That doesn't mean i disapprove of them, nor do I want them to be regulated/banned. If there is a surge in incidents involving people committing crimes with them installed on their rifle, my thought process may change. As for Brady center suing, as committed as they have been to pushing for gun control, this does not surprise me at all. If anything, I respect that they do not back down. Bradys lawsuit reminds me of another quote, this time from a fictional character on The Wire, Slim Charles: "Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there aint no going back. I mean....its what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it. If its a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight."
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October 11, 2017, 04:30 PM | #21 | |
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Lohman
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October 11, 2017, 07:34 PM | #22 |
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No bumpfire stocks are 100% legal. By wink wink nudge nudge I meant if the shop suspected a CRIME was about to be committed. IE I walk Into my local Gun. shop having a conversation about that sob ima gonna kill or some such or ima show them all!! Etc.
I don't mean wink wink nudge nudge I want to pretend like I have full auto for stuff and giggles.
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October 11, 2017, 07:36 PM | #23 | |
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And while immunity laws, like the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) can offer useful protection, they do not, and can not, foreclose a lawsuit. Such laws set out certain conditions which, if satisfied, will protect a party from liability. But if there's a dispute as to whether those conditions have been satisfied, that dispute will be worked out in court in a lawsuit.
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October 11, 2017, 09:41 PM | #24 | |
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Before we bemoan it as a legal loophole that ATF shouldn't have allowed... Remember we would have to have the same stance with bullet button ARs sold in CA to get around the detachable magazine restriction. Don't blame the loophole item. Blame the poorly written law. Doesn't matter if you are skirting the spirit of the law if you abide by the letter of it. Why doesn't it matter? Because the rule of law matters. |
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October 12, 2017, 12:47 AM | #25 | |
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The Akins Accelerator which is like the grand daddy bump stock Im not sure how that was marketed, far as I know it was only for the ruger 10/22 and I didn't have a 10/22 so didn't pay much attention till after the ATF reversal. Trigger cranks I think are usually marketed as novelties.. but I never paid much attention to them. Binary triggers.. Im not sure, I think at least one marketing angle was on competition, I briefly looked at the franklin armory binary triggers before first getting scared at the price and then getting terrified at the product. I could not wrap my head around a trigger that discharges when you release it I was for sure I'd end up shooting my self with the damn thing. Not sure who all is making bump stocks, Slide fire is the only one I can name off the top of my head it came out after the Akins and I thought they were interesting but I believe the at the time price was like 200-250.. which seemed way overpriced for a hunk of plastic. The way the thing operates seems kinda crude and I just assumed at some point it would suffer the same fate as the Akins spring or no spring. So I only looked at them when they first came out and haven't kept up with their marketing strategy since. I remember when they first came out it was marketed as a safer way to bump fire, it was suppose to be fun and used for recreation, possibly training. But I went over the slide fire to see what the current message was and here's what I dug up. So here's the video or one of the video's I remember early on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0f7OCnrrpk Emphasis safety, fun. Here's a more recent one again emphasis fun/recreation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI3occOYH7g But than we come across this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCT8JtwQeI Eh.. thinly cryptic.. This might play into your wink/nod marketing. Lastly we have a video for their belt fed AR, completely solution with a belt fed modified upper and a bump stock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC3nsxeMsBY Well.. What I can I see this one quite literally says simulated full auto and no tax stamp.. So maybe there is something to your point.. at least in some instances. I guess I have not paid enough attention to recent marketing on these things. Still originally at least the message was clear it was for fun/recreation not try and skirt any sort of law. And if you look what people was using them for that's exactly what they're being used for.. fun.. recreation. Far as I know the vegas shooter is the first one to use a bump stock in a crime. He did so with tremendous success, But than again I think everyone can agree his planing was methodical.. bump stocks or no Im sure his shooting spree would have been devastating. Even the gun grabbers like Di-Fi are dumbfounded on how they could have stopped this particular incident. P.S I See they've been busy and came out with a 10/22 stock now that's something I wouldn't mind having and I could afford to feed it. 22lr is fun to shoot quick. |
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