Is the 30-40 krag enough for elk???

aspen1964 · July 13, 2006, 11:28 PM

opinions???

Dirty_Harry · July 13, 2006, 11:38 PM

More than enough, it is more powerful than a .270, and people take them all the time with .270s.

The question is though, can you shoot with it.
Heck you can have a 375 h and h, and have poor shot placement and not kill it. Or you could have a .243 and good shot placement and kill it.....it has been done with the .243, but I dont recommend it.

Dirty

Anthony Terry · July 13, 2006, 11:40 PM

id say for sure at close range. you can load one around 2100fps with a 180gr. in a 22in barrel. maybe more with a longer barrel. prolly good up to 125yds on one maybe. i wouldnt push it over 100. but in closer...definetly.

Ifishsum · July 14, 2006, 12:44 PM

Grandpa killed 8 elk with his .30-40 Krag before he gave it to me years ago. I don't think any shots were over 150yds, but he never lost an animal.

ElkSlayer6x5 · July 14, 2006, 02:55 PM

it is as they said all in shot place ment aim for the boiler room

and it will go down if you keep shots at fair distance
a friend of mine took anice 5x with a 30.30 he was only 80yds out and one well placed shot

remember we kill um dead with a stick and string also

this dont mean you can do it with just any cal. but a 30.40 will be fine get in close as you can and make a good shot on his heart/lungs

knzn · July 16, 2006, 04:16 PM

The world record Elk hung in a hardware store in Crested Butte Colorado for many years. It now hangs at the visitor center there. It was killed by 30-40 Krag.

It may now be eclipsed as the world record, not sure. But it sure is a big-un.

Jack O'Conner · July 17, 2006, 07:10 AM

Back when my Grandad was a young man, Wyoming elk hunters thought nothing of taking big elk with 30-30 carbines and open sights. After WW2, 30-06 became the most popular cartridge among residents and is still widely used with fine success.

But the magazines have caused elk to evolve into armor-plated animals with long range vision of antelope and hiding abilities of white tailed deer. If you ever plan to have your hunt documented in a magazine, it must contain the word, "magnum", at least 4 times. You also must use the word, "wapiti", which is now a requirement for writing success.

Jack

garryc · July 17, 2006, 07:20 AM

Put it this way, How many Elk, Moose, and even big bears have been killed in Kanada with the old 303 Brit. Same ballistics as the krag.

maddog44 · July 17, 2006, 11:44 AM

I shoot a 30-40. For elk, using factory ammo, consider only the Remington core-lokt (spelling?). The MV is about 2400 fps and is fine out to 150 yds or so. Stay away from the Winchester 180 gr factory load, the bullet expands too fast for penetration. I had one blow up at 100 yds on a deer. I shoot handloads now, and you can get better bullets if you handload.

Dirty Harry,

Where do you get the idea the 30-40 is more powerful than the .270???
The Krag is limited to around 40,000 psi chamber pressure and the .270 can approach 60,000 psi. No comparison in power, the 30-40 is wimpy compared to a .270 with 150 gr bullets moving hundreds of feet per second faster.
And I am a 30-40 fan!

OJ · July 17, 2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

The world record Elk hung in a hardware store in Crested Butte Colorado for many years. It now hangs at the visitor center there. It was killed by 30-40 Krag.

It may now be eclipsed as the world record, not sure. But it sure is a big-un.
__________________

You beat me to that answer - Rudy Rozman kept it in his dining room at his motel where I frequently stayed while skiing back in the 1980s. He also had the Winchester 95 rifle in 30-40 Krag that was used to shoot that record breaker and it hung just below the mounted head. Rudy said the mount was actually a "composite" - the antlers were the record breakers but, due to some unfortunate accident of fate, the original head wasn't saved and they mounted the rack on another head.

That didn't detract the specimen for me, however. It was a big head and a magnificent rack of antlers. Boone & Crockett no longer lists it but, it held the record for something like half a century.

samsmix · July 18, 2006, 02:46 AM

The only problem you might have here in MT hunting elk with a 30-40 is a question of range, not of power. Keep your shots inside of 200yds. If he moves after the shot, shoot again! I would do this even with a .300mag.

BlueTrain · July 18, 2006, 05:58 AM

Hunters in the more northern parts of the country, including Canada, must have thought the .30-40 the greatest thing since cartridges (that would have been before sliced bread, I guess) when it first came out, judging from what I have read. The .30-30 may have been real competition but the thing was that they both used smokeless powder and they both had adequate power whatever they needed it for. They really killed the pistol caliber carbines and the large bore rounds like the .45-70 and all similiar calibers, though they were all still manufactured (the rifles, that is) for another twenty years or so.

But you all understand this happened before I was born.

Gunners Mate Guns · July 27, 2006, 09:48 AM

It sure will. It's more than enough to take down an Elk.

180 Grain Power Point Bullet
Dist 100 Yds - Velocity (FPS)=2218 - Energy (Ft.Lbs) 1967 - Short Trajectory (in.) 0 - Long Trajectory (in.) 1.2

omeratwood · March 2, 2013, 06:11 PM

I guess this thread is still open? But "old" ...
Like the pair of .30-40 Krag rifles that I just got. One is 38 years old, a 1975 Ruger No.3, and the other is 119 years old, a US Model 1892 Springfield. (made Carbine Rifle in 1894) re-barrelled with 22" 1:10 / (Hamik Kustom), polished the sear contacts, and lightened the trigger spring.. It's better now than it ever was. All I did to the single-lug bolt and receiver? I just cleaned them with Hoppes 9.

I love Both of these rifles.. I've found the caliber .30-40 Krag to be a perfect size cartridge for a more wide range of game in the north US, including Elk.

The Model 92 Sprigfield is US Military History, and they are both (the Ruger) a work of art as well. I was thrilled to get them both in .30-40 Krag and in such great condition.

taylorce1 · March 2, 2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

More than enough, it is more powerful than a .270, and people take them all the time with .270s.

The .30-40 is a fine old round and plenty capable of taking elk, but in no way is it more powerful than a .270 Win. .270's with 130-150 grain bullets vs a Krag with 150-180 grain bullets it just can't overcome the speed difference to have more energy at the muzzle than a .270. Plus since the .270 favors spitzer and the Krag favors RN and semi-spitzers better the bullets don't have the BC to overcome the .270 at long range either.

Darn I got hit with a necrothread! However, what I posted is at least still true today.

madcratebuilder · March 3, 2013, 06:26 AM

The Krag well and has taken all North American game. Get close and good shot placement.

I would be careful reloading the 30-40 and bumping pressures up. It is a single lug bolt and 110 years or more old.

The Krag entered the surplus market right after war1 and sold for $10.

darkgael · March 3, 2013, 07:51 AM

Just to add another note to this fine old thread. Ammo for elk. Everything seems to have shifted towards the heavier and higher powered cartridges. The distances at which game is "hunted" seems to have grown too. Understandable.

The gun writer/hunter/ guide Ross Seyfried once used a single shot rifle chambered for the .455 Webley pistol cartridge to hunt and kill an elk. It required quite a bit of stalking and, in any case, was a bit of a stunt but it does go to show what a careful and determined hunter can do with less than super equipment.
Pete

PS - the article is in a issue of "The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal". I'd have to look up which issue.

kraigwy · March 3, 2013, 09:01 AM

It's plenty enough for elk, or anything else you want to shoot. Lots of African Dangerous game was taken with the Krag and 200 grn solids.

I just finished re-reading Young's "Alaskan-Yukon Trophies, Won and Lost" where they took an extended hunting trip in the early part of the 20th Century.

One of the guys had a 30-40 they use to back up others or finish off grizzlies after they were wounded. The Krag round worked quite well.

It's also a pretty accurate round too, or at least it is in my 1898 Krag.

wooly booger · March 3, 2013, 10:51 AM

My father took a boat load of Montana elk with a '95 in 30-40 Krag. He even killed a few with a '94 in 25-35. I would not recommend that one at all but he swore by a sneaking up close and making a neck shot.

darkgael · March 5, 2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

My father.....he swore by a sneaking up close and making a neck shot.

Yeah...what we used to call hunting. When/why did it happen that so much hunting became long distance harvesting? I appreciate that there is considerable shooting skill involved in taking an elk at 300+ yards; it ain't the same thing, though, as "sneaking up close and taking a neck shot".
Pete

boattale · March 6, 2013, 09:49 PM

No way man.

Bart B. · March 8, 2013, 10:14 AM

Thousands of elk were downed 11 decades ago with .30-30's and .30-40's. Every one of them never knew what hit them. As far as I know, their species has not gotten more "bullet proof" since then.

A lot of moose suffered the same demise with both cartidges back then.

mavracer · March 8, 2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

However, what I posted is at least still true today.

No not really energy does not equal power. energy is a poor landmark for power and what damage can be done by a round.
a 5.56 has more energy than the original 45/70 BP loading, but I know which I'm taking for large game.
BTW a 180gr @ 2400 fps from Krag has 10% more momentum than a 130gr @ 3000 fps from a 270.

July 13, 2006, 11:28 PM	#1
aspen1964 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 1,030	Is the 30-40 krag enough for elk??? opinions???

July 13, 2006, 11:38 PM	#2
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,484	More than enough, it is more powerful than a .270, and people take them all the time with .270s. The question is though, can you shoot with it. Heck you can have a 375 h and h, and have poor shot placement and not kill it. Or you could have a .243 and good shot placement and kill it.....it has been done with the .243, but I dont recommend it. Dirty __________________ "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne

July 14, 2006, 02:55 PM	#5
ElkSlayer6x5 Member Join Date: June 30, 2006 Location: Cottage Grove Oregon Posts: 39	why not it is as they said all in shot place ment aim for the boiler room and it will go down if you keep shots at fair distance a friend of mine took anice 5x with a 30.30 he was only 80yds out and one well placed shot remember we kill um dead with a stick and string also this dont mean you can do it with just any cal. but a 30.40 will be fine get in close as you can and make a good shot on his heart/lungs __________________ good health and better hunting

July 16, 2006, 04:16 PM	#6
knzn Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 125	Fyi The world record Elk hung in a hardware store in Crested Butte Colorado for many years. It now hangs at the visitor center there. It was killed by 30-40 Krag. It may now be eclipsed as the world record, not sure. But it sure is a big-un. __________________ knzn=kansan "For he was a man of propper wit, and the ghosty tails of the tall hills didn't scare him none."

July 17, 2006, 07:10 AM	#7
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	Back when my Grandad was a young man, Wyoming elk hunters thought nothing of taking big elk with 30-30 carbines and open sights. After WW2, 30-06 became the most popular cartridge among residents and is still widely used with fine success. But the magazines have caused elk to evolve into armor-plated animals with long range vision of antelope and hiding abilities of white tailed deer. If you ever plan to have your hunt documented in a magazine, it must contain the word, "magnum", at least 4 times. You also must use the word, "wapiti", which is now a requirement for writing success. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

July 13, 2006, 11:40 PM	#3
Anthony Terry Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2006 Location: Virginia. Posts: 673	id say for sure at close range. you can load one around 2100fps with a 180gr. in a 22in barrel. maybe more with a longer barrel. prolly good up to 125yds on one maybe. i wouldnt push it over 100. but in closer...definetly.

July 14, 2006, 12:44 PM	#4
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Grandpa killed 8 elk with his .30-40 Krag before he gave it to me years ago. I don't think any shots were over 150yds, but he never lost an animal.

July 17, 2006, 07:20 AM	#8
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Put it this way, How many Elk, Moose, and even big bears have been killed in Kanada with the old 303 Brit. Same ballistics as the krag.

July 17, 2006, 11:44 AM	#9
maddog44 Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 89	30-40 for elk I shoot a 30-40. For elk, using factory ammo, consider only the Remington core-lokt (spelling?). The MV is about 2400 fps and is fine out to 150 yds or so. Stay away from the Winchester 180 gr factory load, the bullet expands too fast for penetration. I had one blow up at 100 yds on a deer. I shoot handloads now, and you can get better bullets if you handload. Dirty Harry, Where do you get the idea the 30-40 is more powerful than the .270??? The Krag is limited to around 40,000 psi chamber pressure and the .270 can approach 60,000 psi. No comparison in power, the 30-40 is wimpy compared to a .270 with 150 gr bullets moving hundreds of feet per second faster. And I am a 30-40 fan!

July 18, 2006, 02:46 AM	#11
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	The only problem you might have here in MT hunting elk with a 30-40 is a question of range, not of power. Keep your shots inside of 200yds. If he moves after the shot, shoot again! I would do this even with a .300mag. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

July 18, 2006, 05:58 AM	#12
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Hunters in the more northern parts of the country, including Canada, must have thought the .30-40 the greatest thing since cartridges (that would have been before sliced bread, I guess) when it first came out, judging from what I have read. The .30-30 may have been real competition but the thing was that they both used smokeless powder and they both had adequate power whatever they needed it for. They really killed the pistol caliber carbines and the large bore rounds like the .45-70 and all similiar calibers, though they were all still manufactured (the rifles, that is) for another twenty years or so. But you all understand this happened before I was born. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

July 27, 2006, 09:48 AM	#13
Gunners Mate Guns Junior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 3	30-40 Krag It sure will. It's more than enough to take down an Elk. 180 Grain Power Point Bullet Dist 100 Yds - Velocity (FPS)=2218 - Energy (Ft.Lbs) 1967 - Short Trajectory (in.) 0 - Long Trajectory (in.) 1.2

March 2, 2013, 06:11 PM	#14
omeratwood Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Location: Summerfield, Florida Posts: 23	.30-40 Krag I guess this thread is still open? But "old" ... Like the pair of .30-40 Krag rifles that I just got. One is 38 years old, a 1975 Ruger No.3, and the other is 119 years old, a US Model 1892 Springfield. (made Carbine Rifle in 1894) re-barrelled with 22" 1:10 / (Hamik Kustom), polished the sear contacts, and lightened the trigger spring.. It's better now than it ever was. All I did to the single-lug bolt and receiver? I just cleaned them with Hoppes 9. I love Both of these rifles.. I've found the caliber .30-40 Krag to be a perfect size cartridge for a more wide range of game in the north US, including Elk. The Model 92 Sprigfield is US Military History, and they are both (the Ruger) a work of art as well. I was thrilled to get them both in .30-40 Krag and in such great condition.

March 3, 2013, 06:26 AM	#16
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	The Krag well and has taken all North American game. Get close and good shot placement. I would be careful reloading the 30-40 and bumping pressures up. It is a single lug bolt and 110 years or more old. The Krag entered the surplus market right after war1 and sold for $10.

March 3, 2013, 07:51 AM	#17
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Note Just to add another note to this fine old thread. Ammo for elk. Everything seems to have shifted towards the heavier and higher powered cartridges. The distances at which game is "hunted" seems to have grown too. Understandable. The gun writer/hunter/ guide Ross Seyfried once used a single shot rifle chambered for the .455 Webley pistol cartridge to hunt and kill an elk. It required quite a bit of stalking and, in any case, was a bit of a stunt but it does go to show what a careful and determined hunter can do with less than super equipment. Pete PS - the article is in a issue of "The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal". I'd have to look up which issue. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

March 3, 2013, 09:01 AM	#18
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	It's plenty enough for elk, or anything else you want to shoot. Lots of African Dangerous game was taken with the Krag and 200 grn solids. I just finished re-reading Young's "Alaskan-Yukon Trophies, Won and Lost" where they took an extended hunting trip in the early part of the 20th Century. One of the guys had a 30-40 they use to back up others or finish off grizzlies after they were wounded. The Krag round worked quite well. It's also a pretty accurate round too, or at least it is in my 1898 Krag. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 3, 2013, 10:51 AM	#19
wooly booger Junior member Join Date: February 22, 2013 Location: on the edge Posts: 143	My father took a boat load of Montana elk with a '95 in 30-40 Krag. He even killed a few with a '94 in 25-35. I would not recommend that one at all but he swore by a sneaking up close and making a neck shot.

March 6, 2013, 09:49 PM	#21
boattale Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2012 Posts: 118	No way man. __________________ Its all downhill from here. Except the parts that are uphill.

March 8, 2013, 10:14 AM	#22
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Thousands of elk were downed 11 decades ago with .30-30's and .30-40's. Every one of them never knew what hit them. As far as I know, their species has not gotten more "bullet proof" since then. A lot of moose suffered the same demise with both cartidges back then.