Bullpups - the Concept

Sturmgewehre · October 21, 2012, 08:54 AM

This is part one of a video series I'm working on talking about Bullpups. In the first video I address the concept of the bullpup design and compare it to a conventional rifle, the M4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNKvlV1oxfw

Future videos will go into specifics of different rifles.

Nickel Plated · October 21, 2012, 10:04 AM

Nice, I always like your vids.

However I always thought the AUG had an ejection port on both the right and left side, and you could simply configure the gun to eject ether way. I guess that may only be on standard Austrian military rifle and not the import rifles modified for STANAG mags.

Not really helpful if you keep switching from right to left handed shooting since it does require dis-assembly and some part swapping, but still handy to set it up more favorably depending on which side you shoot the most from.

It is a shame there aren't more options in the bullpup market in the US. Not affordable ones anyway.

Sturmgewehre · October 21, 2012, 10:31 AM

The NATO AUG does not allow for the use of a left hand bolt. The standard rifle does, however this doesn't address the issue of weak-side shooting and brass hitting the user. You can't select right or left hand ejection on the fly, you must strip the rifle, put in a different bolt, then reassemble the rifle. It's only meant to configure the rifle for strong side use.

Amsdorf · October 21, 2012, 02:06 PM

Another great video, sir.

Rat Worx is taking orders for them, $2,000 a pop.

For the Steyr real deal ones.

idek · October 21, 2012, 07:11 PM

I've heard that pullpup triggers tend to be inferior due to the fact that the trigger and firing mechanisms are so far apart. Will you be addressing this idea in your other videos?

Sturmgewehre · October 21, 2012, 08:57 PM

I will talk about the triggers in the rifle reviews. At a high level I really don't see anything all that objectionable with the triggers of the rifles I own. They aren't AR triggers, but few military rifles have triggers like the AR. If you shoot an AK or a rifle like the HK91 you'll find they have far worse triggers than the AUG or FS2000.

The Kel-Tec RFB has a very light short trigger, unfortunately mine is a single shot rifle until Kel-Tec fixes it.

But yes, I will talk about the triggers as I do the reviews.

RsqVet · October 23, 2012, 01:54 AM

Nice work.

Quite honestly every time I handle an AUG I want to own one. It is one of the guns I find that just feels exceedingly natural in terms of how it mounts to the shooter.

Maybe I will have to pick up one of the new ones if they pan out quality wise.

Frankly for a title one firearm I have no idea why they have never gotten to be more accepted, as you mention for a CQB situation the AUG is going to handle much better than say an M4. Other than being "outside the box" I see a ton of advantages esp for the "patrol carbine" roll.

I also think it's fun to imagine what the fertile mind of Browning, Garand or Kalishnakov could have come up with in terms of a bullpup if one started from a clean sheet of paper. Not to be critical but the Aug and FN bullpup designs are are only ones I find that seem natural, not like someone pounded a conventional rifle into the bulpup configuration, the M1a stocks keep getting my attention but I just can not get into them enough to want to sink the money.

Nickel Plated · October 23, 2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Frankly for a title one firearm I have no idea why they have never gotten to be more accepted, as you mention for a CQB situation the AUG is going to handle much better than say an M4. Other than being "outside the box" I see a ton of advantages esp for the "patrol carbine" roll.

Bullpups have their advantages. I guess most people just don't feel they are worth the price premium you pay for any of the bullpups in the US VS a decent AR or AK rifle. Make a bullpip that can accept common AR or AK mags and for around $800, I bet they would fly off the shelf.

Quote:

I also think it's fun to imagine what the fertile mind of........Kalishnakov could have come up with in terms of a bullpup

Might look something like a Norinco 86

SR420 · October 23, 2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

RsqVet Not to be critical but the Aug and FN bullpup designs are are only ones I find that seem natural, not like someone pounded a conventional rifle into the bulpup configuration, the M1a stocks keep getting my attention but I just can not get into them enough to want to sink the money.

Been there, done that, don't waste your money.

PH/CIB · October 23, 2012, 03:20 PM

Really enjoy your videos,,,and have bought equipment based on your videos and recommendations.

This video brings up a question, at the end of the video you show a pair of gloves that you are using,,, with it looks like a seam on a finger torn due to what you say is getting to close to the gas system on the Steyr Aug,,,since I never wear gloves except in the coldest weather,,,could you clairify would that be a problem with the Aug,,, do you have to watch where you put your hands on the rifle?

Watched the video a second time, where you say the gloves were burned by getting your finger too close to the gas system, your technique looked perfect on the video and as I would probably not be as careful as you were this looks like a definite drawback to a rifle I would otherwise really like to try out and own, do the FN bullpup rifles have the same drawback? Thanks!

cannonfire · October 23, 2012, 04:20 PM

I don't do much (if any) off hand shooting with rifles but if the "situation" comes to it where I need to, I think brass hitting my face would be the least of my worries.

I've rented a full auto AUG before at a range and I was really impressed with how soft it shoots. My problem with it is the select switch or lack there of. It took a couple of trigger pulls for me to get it to go full auto. I can just see that going bad in a combat situation (thinking of the AUG if the military adopted it) where you go for suppressive fire and you don't pull the trigger far enough and only get one shot. But on the other hand that could just be from my lack of training with the weapon.

Sturmgewehre · October 25, 2012, 09:43 AM

PH/CIB,

I like to grip things high, including the front grip of the AUG. I was gripping the AUG so high that I was resting my finger pretty much right on the gas system. The plug on the gas system vents excess gas used to operate the action there.

I have had AUGs for many years and never had a problem. I did set this new AUG to high cycle to reliably run the low powered Wolf ammo used in the video. This may have turned a vent port towards my finger when I did this.

Even with the gasses hitting my finger I didn't flinch away, it wasn't painful just a bit distracting and uncomfortable. It did melt the synthetic material of the glove pretty quickly and was hitting my finger directly. All I had on my finger was some carbon residue.

I'll talk more about this in my review of the rifle.

Microgunner · October 25, 2012, 10:12 AM

Enjoyed your video.
I own a FS2000 and hope to hear more about it.

chadio · October 25, 2012, 12:57 PM

Great videos Tim... but, you probably already know that this series is not complete without discussing the FN Herstal PS90.

loose_holster_dan · October 25, 2012, 02:35 PM

just an fyi - the offhand brass deflection issue has been addressed. works great.

http://www.ratworxusa.com/pagDetail....Brass%20Buster

October 21, 2012, 08:54 AM	#1
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	Bullpups - the Concept This is part one of a video series I'm working on talking about Bullpups. In the first video I address the concept of the bullpup design and compare it to a conventional rifle, the M4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNKvlV1oxfw Future videos will go into specifics of different rifles. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

October 21, 2012, 10:31 AM	#3
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	The NATO AUG does not allow for the use of a left hand bolt. The standard rifle does, however this doesn't address the issue of weak-side shooting and brass hitting the user. You can't select right or left hand ejection on the fly, you must strip the rifle, put in a different bolt, then reassemble the rifle. It's only meant to configure the rifle for strong side use. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

October 21, 2012, 08:57 PM	#6
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	I will talk about the triggers in the rifle reviews. At a high level I really don't see anything all that objectionable with the triggers of the rifles I own. They aren't AR triggers, but few military rifles have triggers like the AR. If you shoot an AK or a rifle like the HK91 you'll find they have far worse triggers than the AUG or FS2000. The Kel-Tec RFB has a very light short trigger, unfortunately mine is a single shot rifle until Kel-Tec fixes it. But yes, I will talk about the triggers as I do the reviews. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

October 23, 2012, 03:20 PM	#10
PH/CIB Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 281	Really enjoy your videos,,,and have bought equipment based on your videos and recommendations. This video brings up a question, at the end of the video you show a pair of gloves that you are using,,, with it looks like a seam on a finger torn due to what you say is getting to close to the gas system on the Steyr Aug,,,since I never wear gloves except in the coldest weather,,,could you clairify would that be a problem with the Aug,,, do you have to watch where you put your hands on the rifle? Watched the video a second time, where you say the gloves were burned by getting your finger too close to the gas system, your technique looked perfect on the video and as I would probably not be as careful as you were this looks like a definite drawback to a rifle I would otherwise really like to try out and own, do the FN bullpup rifles have the same drawback? Thanks! __________________ Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net Last edited by PH/CIB; October 23, 2012 at 03:27 PM.

October 25, 2012, 09:43 AM	#12
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	PH/CIB, I like to grip things high, including the front grip of the AUG. I was gripping the AUG so high that I was resting my finger pretty much right on the gas system. The plug on the gas system vents excess gas used to operate the action there. I have had AUGs for many years and never had a problem. I did set this new AUG to high cycle to reliably run the low powered Wolf ammo used in the video. This may have turned a vent port towards my finger when I did this. Even with the gasses hitting my finger I didn't flinch away, it wasn't painful just a bit distracting and uncomfortable. It did melt the synthetic material of the glove pretty quickly and was hitting my finger directly. All I had on my finger was some carbon residue. I'll talk more about this in my review of the rifle. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

October 21, 2012, 10:04 AM	#2
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Nice, I always like your vids. However I always thought the AUG had an ejection port on both the right and left side, and you could simply configure the gun to eject ether way. I guess that may only be on standard Austrian military rifle and not the import rifles modified for STANAG mags. Not really helpful if you keep switching from right to left handed shooting since it does require dis-assembly and some part swapping, but still handy to set it up more favorably depending on which side you shoot the most from. It is a shame there aren't more options in the bullpup market in the US. Not affordable ones anyway.

October 21, 2012, 02:06 PM	#4
Amsdorf Junior member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri Posts: 849	Another great video, sir. Rat Worx is taking orders for them, $2,000 a pop. For the Steyr real deal ones.

October 21, 2012, 07:11 PM	#5
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 903	I've heard that pullpup triggers tend to be inferior due to the fact that the trigger and firing mechanisms are so far apart. Will you be addressing this idea in your other videos?

October 23, 2012, 01:54 AM	#7
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Nice work. Quite honestly every time I handle an AUG I want to own one. It is one of the guns I find that just feels exceedingly natural in terms of how it mounts to the shooter. Maybe I will have to pick up one of the new ones if they pan out quality wise. Frankly for a title one firearm I have no idea why they have never gotten to be more accepted, as you mention for a CQB situation the AUG is going to handle much better than say an M4. Other than being "outside the box" I see a ton of advantages esp for the "patrol carbine" roll. I also think it's fun to imagine what the fertile mind of Browning, Garand or Kalishnakov could have come up with in terms of a bullpup if one started from a clean sheet of paper. Not to be critical but the Aug and FN bullpup designs are are only ones I find that seem natural, not like someone pounded a conventional rifle into the bulpup configuration, the M1a stocks keep getting my attention but I just can not get into them enough to want to sink the money.

October 25, 2012, 10:12 AM	#13
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	Enjoyed your video. I own a FS2000 and hope to hear more about it. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

October 25, 2012, 12:57 PM	#14
chadio Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2011 Posts: 931	Great videos Tim... but, you probably already know that this series is not complete without discussing the FN Herstal PS90. __________________ Ex - Navy, Persian Gulf Veteran. Loved shooting the M14, 1911, M60, M2

October 25, 2012, 02:35 PM	#15
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	just an fyi - the offhand brass deflection issue has been addressed. works great. http://www.ratworxusa.com/pagDetail....Brass%20Buster __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."