BAFTE Ruling 2011-4 (SBR)

Mrgunsngear · August 9, 2011, 11:13 AM

I saw the press release about BAFTE Ruling 2011-4 about converting a pistol to a SBR and back to a pistol without getting all the SBR paperwork done. Has anyone seen this in writing? I'd like to SBR my Draco and I'd like to skip the $200 and the engraving if I can... Thanks.

aarondhgraham · August 9, 2011, 11:17 AM

I read (somewhere) that this ruling was to accommodate the Beretta NEOS Carbine Kit.

Initially the BATFE had given Beretta the okay,,,
Then for some reason they backed off on their okay.

I don't really know the truth of it,,,
But I swear I read it somewhere recently.

Aarond

PTK · August 9, 2011, 11:33 AM

You can't get around having a 16"+ barrel and 26" OAL for a rifle, sorry. If you just pop a stock on your Draco, that would be an SBR - you'd have to extend the barrel to at least 16" as well, and make it permanent as far as the BATFE goes.

rjrivero · August 9, 2011, 12:05 PM

You can convert the pistol into a standard rifle. 16" or greater barrel, Overall length of 26" or more.

Then you can convert it back into a pistol.

YOU CAN NOT MAKE A SBR without filling out the appropriate paperwork.

Read it for yourself. ATF Ruling 2011-4

Mrgunsngear · August 9, 2011, 12:56 PM

RJ--thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

rjrivero · August 9, 2011, 01:24 PM

You're welcome. This ruling DOES bring about a few interesting questions.

For instance, if you have a new stripped lower, can you build it into a pistol FIRST, then go ahead and build it into what ever rifle configuration you want to build it into, and then convert it to a PISTOL again??

If so, constructive posession becomes more dubious. as long as you own a pistol buffer tube, you could own short barrel uppers for any ar that you built, provided you build it into a pistol FIRST.......hmmm....

It's really quite interesting.

Mrgunsngear · August 10, 2011, 06:29 AM

I think you can do that based on what I read.

Bartholomew Roberts · August 10, 2011, 08:48 AM

Here is an interesting question - given the emphasis on close proximity and "no other purpose", let's say I have multiple AR rifles and an AR pistol. I decide to convert the AR pistol to a rifle and take it to the range with me. I remove the short barrelled upper and leave it in the safe with my other ARs while I spend a day at the range.

Are my other family members now in constructive possession of an unregistered SBR because the combination of weapons remaining in the safe is only good for making an SBR since I have the pistol lower?

rjrivero · August 11, 2011, 09:52 AM

Excellent question, Mr. Roberts. As will most of this ATF stuff, it's clear as mud.

Very interesting scenario building with this new Ruling from the ATF.

How does the ATF make "rulings" anyway? Silly me, but I thought that "Rulings" were the exclusive purview of our Judicial branch of the government.

August 9, 2011, 11:13 AM	#1
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	BAFTE Ruling 2011-4 (SBR) I saw the press release about BAFTE Ruling 2011-4 about converting a pistol to a SBR and back to a pistol without getting all the SBR paperwork done. Has anyone seen this in writing? I'd like to SBR my Draco and I'd like to skip the $200 and the engraving if I can... Thanks.

August 9, 2011, 11:17 AM	#2
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Wasn't this to accommodate the Beretta NEOS carbine kit?,,, I read (somewhere) that this ruling was to accommodate the Beretta NEOS Carbine Kit. Initially the BATFE had given Beretta the okay,,, Then for some reason they backed off on their okay. I don't really know the truth of it,,, But I swear I read it somewhere recently. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

August 9, 2011, 11:33 AM	#3
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	You can't get around having a 16"+ barrel and 26" OAL for a rifle, sorry. If you just pop a stock on your Draco, that would be an SBR - you'd have to extend the barrel to at least 16" as well, and make it permanent as far as the BATFE goes.

August 9, 2011, 12:05 PM	#4
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	You can convert the pistol into a standard rifle. 16" or greater barrel, Overall length of 26" or more. Then you can convert it back into a pistol. YOU CAN NOT MAKE A SBR without filling out the appropriate paperwork. Read it for yourself. ATF Ruling 2011-4

August 9, 2011, 12:56 PM	#5
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	RJ--thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

August 9, 2011, 01:24 PM	#6
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	You're welcome. This ruling DOES bring about a few interesting questions. For instance, if you have a new stripped lower, can you build it into a pistol FIRST, then go ahead and build it into what ever rifle configuration you want to build it into, and then convert it to a PISTOL again?? If so, constructive posession becomes more dubious. as long as you own a pistol buffer tube, you could own short barrel uppers for any ar that you built, provided you build it into a pistol FIRST.......hmmm.... It's really quite interesting.

August 10, 2011, 06:29 AM	#7
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	I think you can do that based on what I read.

August 10, 2011, 08:48 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Here is an interesting question - given the emphasis on close proximity and "no other purpose", let's say I have multiple AR rifles and an AR pistol. I decide to convert the AR pistol to a rifle and take it to the range with me. I remove the short barrelled upper and leave it in the safe with my other ARs while I spend a day at the range. Are my other family members now in constructive possession of an unregistered SBR because the combination of weapons remaining in the safe is only good for making an SBR since I have the pistol lower?

August 11, 2011, 09:52 AM	#9
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	Excellent question, Mr. Roberts. As will most of this ATF stuff, it's clear as mud. Very interesting scenario building with this new Ruling from the ATF. How does the ATF make "rulings" anyway? Silly me, but I thought that "Rulings" were the exclusive purview of our Judicial branch of the government.