Long Range Pistol Shooting

[rodwhaincamo]

The Wild Bill 75 yard shot got me wondering just how many people can use a non magnum pistol and hit a man sized target in the vitals at that range. It never even occurred to me to try such a thing but then I typically viewed a "long range" pistol for hunting to be a bow hunting range affair unless one had a long barreled magnum revolver or T/C Contender pistol.

Many people I see shoot at 7 yd targets at the range. I always figured this to be a bit too easy and used the 15 yd range even if it was a .380 or .22 with a short barrel. But 75 yds never would occur to me.

[Sevens]

A "man-sized" target is gargantuan if all you need to accomplish is a hit on it.

Hold any handgun, sights on his head and at 75 yards?! You will hit a man-sized target.

If everything is moving... sure, much more difficult.

[Hawg]

I used to do a lot of 100 yard shooting with a Colt heavy barreled officers model in .38 special. It's not too hard to bust gallon milk jugs. You just have to figure out how much of the barrel to use as the front sight so you can keep the sights on the target and not be guessing at holdover.

[rodwhaincamo]

Not just a man-sized target but the vitals. Something along the lines of the Tutt shot, something significant and not just a shoulder hit or some such.

As Hawg put it a milk sized jug is a rough sized vitals sized target. Guess I'll just have to try one of these days and see for myself how I may do. It seems rather difficult.

[Hawg]

It's not hard.

[Rangerrich99]

I don't typically shoot non-magnums past 25 yards, but last year a group of us went out to the desert and tried shooting water jugs at 80 yds (laser ranged). Since it was a spontaneous event, I didn't have any .357 mag rounds on me, so I shot .38s instead.

I didn't have a great day, and only hit 2 out of 6 jugs.

[rodwhaincamo]

I'd think 33% wouldn't be too bad at that range.

There must be a nice sense of accomplishment if one can consistently hit a milk jug at 80 yds with a handgun, especially a non magnum/rifle cartridge.

[NoSecondBest]

There's nothing about a magnum that makes it a more accurate gun at 75 yards and beyond. The word "magnum" isn't some mystical caliber that shoots more accurately. Hitting a man sized vital area at 75 yards isn't even moderately difficult. I've been shooting silhouette for many years and I can easily hit a target that size with monotonous regularity. The thing that impresses me most about this post is the fact that most "handgun shooters" are impressed by the thought of this being a difficult shot. Way too many handgunners simply can't really shoot a handgun. Spray and pray seems to be the norm now days.

[Rangerrich99]

Oh, now I don't want to mislead anyone; I probably couldn't repeat that performance on a regular basis. In fact, I'll freely admit now that the second hit was almost surely entirely luck. The sights were actually still moving a bit when I touched off that round. But it was good enough that my buddy Dave ended up having to buy the first round later that night, which is about all I was worried about.

But thank you for the compliment; and you're right, it felt pretty good. Especially with a free cold one.

[rodwhaincamo]

Well a magnum round certainly doesn't have near the amount of drop a more standard velocity round has making longer shots certainly a bit easier.

I certainly practiced quick follow up shots with my 1911. I wouldn't call that spray and pray per se but simple facts that a round or two often doesn't quite set a perpetrator straight right away.

It's been quite some time now and all I've been working with are single shot revolvers where there is no "spray" and though I typically see poor "patterns" from those using bottom feeders while at the range they aren't spraying either as that's not allowed at most ranges.

I'm certainly no pistolero by any means but my groups at 15 yds are typically smaller than those with those bottom feeders at 7. That said, depending on the gun, I'm talking 3-4" groups. Nothing spectacular at all. But then, with these guns, I'm not working with anemic target loads, but ones that are worthy of taking afield. Maybe with a little help and a few shots to bring me close I could hit a jug at 75 yds. But I'd be surprised really. But then I've never tried such a thing.

Now my old boss was able to take the head right off of a young foot long rattlesnake from maybe 10 yds with his .357. That to me was well above my level to hit something so small squarely. But then he was a Marine and better know how to shoot well, especially as his arse, as well as his buddies, may have required it one day.

[rodwhaincamo]

A free cold one is a special treat, especially under those circumstances!

[swathdiver]

There used to be regular 300 yard pistol shooting competitions with books written on the subject.

I think the trouble today are lack of places to conduct such shooting and the silly lawyering and the poor quality of pop guns and shooters.

[44 AMP]

back in the days before old age finally caught up with my eyesight, I had no trouble ringing the 200yd gong on the rifle range with my 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt. Offhand. One handed.

The technique is not terribly difficult (for me, anyway ) and simply involves a couple ranging shots to learn how much front sight to hold up.

I can, and have done it with any and every handgun you give me.

75yds seems like a clout shot to me, but then, I'm not shooting at something that is shooting at me!

[1stmar]

Calculating the hold over is the hardest thing. A magnum cartridge would have less drop making the hold over much easier. I shoot pistol at hundred routinely, mostly 45acp which is sighted in for 25 yds, selecting an aiming point is without a doubt the most challenging part, it's usually the top of the target frame which is obscured by the sights.

[mavracer]

I typically see poor "patterns" from those using bottom feeders while at the range they aren't spraying either as that's not allowed at most ranges.

That's the really bad thing many shooters seem content with "combat" accuracy at "bullseye" speed.
I'll echo the sentiment that 100yards with a decent service pistol isn't all that difficult.
My buddy was sighting in his AR on a B27 silhouette @ 100 yards and when he was done I proceeded to put a pie plate size group in what would be the lower abdomen with my 4" 686 ssr using 38 special ammo standing unsupported.

[NoSecondBest]

Well a magnum round certainly doesn't have near the amount of drop a more standard velocity round has making longer shots certainly a bit easier.

Not even close to being true at 75 yards. Quit getting hung up on the word "magnum". It's just a word and it's meaningless in this conversation. Even the anemic .22lr std. velocity doesn't have much more drop at 75 yards than an inch or so. You need to actually try some of this and learn the truth. Quit watching all that Youtube garbabe that someones does a hundred times until they get it right one time. Reading and repeating doesn't make it so.

[Hawg]

Calculating the hold over is the hardest thing. A magnum cartridge would have less drop making the hold over much easier. I shoot pistol at hundred routinely, mostly 45acp which is sighted in for 25 yds, selecting an aiming point is without a doubt the most challenging part, it's usually the top of the target frame which is obscured by the sights.

Use the barrel or slide itself as part of the front sight and there is no holdover.

[44 AMP]

Calculating the hold over is the hardest thing. A magnum cartridge would have less drop making the hold over much easier. I shoot pistol at hundred routinely, mostly 45acp which is sighted in for 25 yds, selecting an aiming point is without a doubt the most challenging part, it's usually the top of the target frame which is obscured by the sights.

Holdover (selecting an aiming point above the target) is the worst way to get hits at long distance. It's a little better than closing your eyes and hoping the Force makes the hit, but not a lot.

When you cover the target with the sight, or muzzle of the gun, you lose all reference to your target. You know you are aiming above your target, but you cannot see HOW MUCH above, or how far right or left you are, because you cannot see the target.

Holdover works pretty well when shooting a rifle or pistol with a scope, where you can raise your point of aim (center of the crosshairs) above the target, and still see the target in the scope's field of view, but it is about the worst way to aim when using iron sights!

Use the barrel or slide itself as part of the front sight and there is no holdover.

Hawg knows how to do it right!!

Don't cover your target with the gun, put your target on top of the front sight, and keeping it there, raise the sight above the level of the top of the rear sight.

How much you need to raise the front sight is what you need to learn, through practice (trial and error), because it will be different for each gun, load, and distance, but, once you learn it, it is a constant.

For my Ruger Blackhawk, raising the sight (with the target on top) until the slope of the front sight "breaks" (the slope of the blade turns vertical) being level with the top of the rear sight is just the right amount for hits at 200yds.

Shooting a Browning Hi-Power, using the same method, a spot on the slide, about an inch back from the front sight, level with the rear sight, produced 200yd hits.

[mavracer]

I've seen a couple of the old gun rag writers(the ones that could really shoot) with horizontal brass and or gold inserts on the front sight so as to facilitate a good long range sight picture.

[James K]

When I was a deputy sheriff, I used to carry a Chiefs Special 3" steel square butt, an uncommon but very nice combination. After a sniper incident, I decided to see what I cold do at 100 yards. After some preliminary work, I found it fairly easy to hit a full size silhouette at 100 yards by holding the base of the front sight in the rear notch. Now this was shooting aimed DA with my carry factory loads (I don't remember now what they were), and I got good enough that I could hit a man at that distance as long as he stood up straight and didn't move. (OK, not likely, but isn't that the premise of most "self-defense" practice?)

Groups ran a foot or more in diameter, but I still believe that .38 Special, out of an accurate gun, can do good work at 100 yards if the shooter has practiced at that distance. Now, 600 yards on a mule deer is another story!

Jim

[Rangerrich99]

Well that information would've been helpful that day. What made hitting those jug s hard was that the front sight post completely covered the jugs; I had to guess where they were behind it.

[Jbar4Ranch]

I killed a cow elk several years ago with a prone shot from a S&W .500 magnum at somewhere between 220 and 250 yards, according to Google Earth, as best as I can remember our relative positions.
A few years later, I killed a small 3x3 mulie with a clean head shot from a Freedom Arms .500 Wyoming Express from a prone rest over a stump at a lased 145 yards.
Both revolvers were scoped with Leupold 2x pistol scopes.

[James K]

Using iron sights, I found it better to raise the front sight up and center the base in the notch than to obscure the target by keeping the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear, as in the normal sight picture. In a combat situation, of course, you would want to keep the target in sight, not obscure it/him.

Jim.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by James K

Using iron sights, I found it better to raise the front sight up and center the base in the notch than to obscure the target by keeping the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear, as in the normal sight picture. In a combat situation, of course, you would want to keep the target in sight, not obscure it/him.

Jim.

I agree. Holding over with the target obscured is no good. Can't see the target when shooting a gun is simply not kosher.

I also use the same technique, after a few trial and error. The best is of course a rear sight with easy elevation adjustment, like the old broomhandle. But they don't make those things any more.

The rear sight top aligned with the front sight base. Keep that sight picture and 6 o'clock hold. Adjust the hold based on where the shots hit, and walk the shot from in front of the target to the target. This way the target is always in sight. If the shot still falls short when the front start to obscure the target, a new consistent sight picture is needed. To certain point, that is it. The limit has been reached.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Hawg]

The rear sight top aligned with the front sight base. Keep that sight picture and 6 o'clock hold. Adjust the hold based on where the shots hit, and walk the shot from in front of the target to the target. This way the target is always in sight. If the shot still falls short when the front start to obscure the target, a new consistent sight picture is needed. To certain point, that is it. The limit has been reached.

The limit hasn't been reached until you run out of barrel. If you need to you can use a piece of tape for a sighting point.