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Old October 24, 2015, 12:44 AM   #51
FrankenMauser
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Sounds like a plan.
I actually need to give up on something that I've been doing: Pushing for max velocity with a 437 gr bullet in .444 Marlin.
Once the load hits about 1,900 fps, it is brutal on the shooter, from a 6 lb rifle. It's pretty hard on the scope, too. I can't imagine it's very good for the rifle.

Quote:
On the addotional barrels, I have heard they are down to what's in stock on new onew. Also, it appears they aren't like T/C Contender, or Encore barrels. They say you need to send your frame for them to "fit" another barrel.
I would be looking at pawn shops, gun shops, local ads, local auctions, internet classifieds, and internet auctions, if I was in the market for H&R barrels. Barrels are not easy to find, but there are a lot out there.

H&R wants WAYYYY too much for an accessory barrel, now (if they even have what you want). A few years ago, you could get a new barrel for the cost of the barrel, plus about $40 (which covered shipping, fitting, and a new fore-stock).

But, a couple years ago, though, they started nickel-and-diming, and demanding the complete rifle from most people that inquired - which triples shipping costs. So the price went to $200-240+ per barrel (depending upon the cost of the barrel that you wanted) ... when you could buy a COMPLETE Handi-Rifle for the same price.

I was pretty irritated when I found out about it, because I had been saving some money for a while, in order to get a handful of barrels all at the same time: .35 Whelen (iron sight), .223 Rem 16" ("youth"), .243 Win (iron sight / "youth"), .30-30 (iron sight), and maybe a shotgun barrel. That should have been close to the $420 I was quoted right after I bought the .444 Marlin model. But with the new fee schedule and policies, I was quoted over $1,200 when I was finally ready to do it.

When I started looking around to see if I was the only person to be blind-sided by the new fees, I found that most people were simply buying complete rifles (or 'combo' sets) for the barrels that they wanted, and then selling the frame for $75 or so.

Any decent gunsmith can fit a barrel to your frame, or you can use some of the low-tech options like soda can shims and a pillar file.
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Old October 26, 2015, 10:38 AM   #52
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Currently shooting 2 H&Rs, a 45-70 Buffalo Classic and a 300AAC blackout.
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Old October 26, 2015, 02:59 PM   #53
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Quote:
When I started looking around to see if I was the only person to be blind-sided by the new fees, I found that most people were simply buying complete rifles (or 'combo' sets) for the barrels that they wanted, and then selling the frame for $75 or so.
Does anyone here have experience switching barrels for handi-rifles without any fitting? My understanding is they must be fit. There may be some leeway in the shotguns and low pressure rounds, but I wouldn't want to mess with the higher pressure rounds and a bad fit.

I just wish someone made a single shot that was just a bit nicer. I would consider the CVA offerings, but can never seem to find them. Even on gunbroker, the legal Ohio Deer cartridges are rare.
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Old October 26, 2015, 03:32 PM   #54
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Many, if not most, barrels will fit and lock up correctly. There's always the odd one tho. Fitting info is found in the stickies in H&R/NEF forum over at go2gbo.com (the graybeard website). It is not complicated and can be done by anyone that has a bit of ability with his hands. It mostly has to do with whether the parts latch together correctly. Worst one I ever had I had to put a .003" shim in the hinge hook to take slack out of the hinge. Remember to drive pins out from RIGHT to LEFT, and you will need a dummy pin to reassemble the trigger group. GW
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:30 AM   #55
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I read this carefully and perhaps I missed it.

H&R was aquired by Freedom Group, same outfit that runs Remington. The plant in Gardner Mass closed. Most employees let go. The guns were then built in NY in the Remington plant. The quality took a dramatic hit. The same exact thing happened with Marlin. I got two of Rem/H&R and the sight base fell off one. The metal finish was poor. The triggers actually seemed pretty good (better) and the laminated stock no worse than the old birch/beech.

IMHO, what,who killed the H&R was Freedom Group. Not Ruger. They ran the quality into the ground. The H&R was never an alternative to a bolt gun. It was different and there is now a crappy import, CVA or some such filling that nitch. Those junky imports do sell. There is a demand beyond low cost. It is and was a very useful firearm.

Handy, says it all. Rifles, shotguns and slug guns - a versatile platform. Light and quick, one shot for those with the confidence and skill.

Prior to the buy out, neither Marlin or H&R were in any financial distress. Freedom Group just made offers and purchased the companies for their own reasons. They still make Marlin levers and some other H&R model of little merit.

I miss the H&R, but life goes on. I still have a few. I hope the Remlins improve, that would be another tragic loss.

Last edited by fourbore; November 7, 2015 at 06:21 AM.
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Old November 5, 2015, 01:34 AM   #56
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Try viewing it this way- The company tried to keep the Handi competitive, and in doing so progressively lowered production costs till they couldn't remove any more.

That went hand in hand with the decline in quality.

The gun was not profitable, regardless of how much they cheapened it.

It didn't die because quality declined, quality declined because the maker couldn't keep a profit on the gun.

Sales lowered before quality did.
The market preferred cheaper repeating alternatives.

Too many people were looking at $350 for a single-shot vs $350 for an accurate bolt-action, and choosing the bolt-action.
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Old November 5, 2015, 07:20 AM   #57
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Quote:
Try viewing it this way- The company tried to keep the Handi competitive, and in doing so progressively lowered production costs till they couldn't remove any more.
NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is all 100% wrong. Remington purchased H&R and immediately the quality dropped. No step by step involved. Over time, quality actually came back up a bit as they figured out how to build the guns (better and faster). But real quality is not in freedom group's dna.

The gun was dropped for reasons know to freedom group. I assume you are right, profit margin for resources tied up. They had no problem in Mass but then over 100 years of practice, may make a difference. Not to mention pride.

There are two different companies here, why do you use terms like "company"? Who are we talking about? What time period?
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Old November 5, 2015, 08:46 PM   #58
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My info comes from a Remington product manager who gave me what I gave you.
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Old November 5, 2015, 11:19 PM   #59
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NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is all 100% wrong. Remington purchased H&R and immediately the quality dropped. No step by step involved. Over time, quality actually came back up a bit as they figured out how to build the guns (better and faster). But real quality is not in freedom group's dna.

The gun was dropped for reasons know to freedom group. I assume you are right, profit margin for resources tied up. They had no problem in Mass but then over 100 years of practice, may make a difference. Not to mention pride.
My opinion differs.
From my point of view, quality was going downhill before Remington ever came into the picture. ...A time during which Marlin (H&R 1871's subsidiary) was also in decline, as far as quality. Sure, quality took a major hit when Remington moved production, but it was already sliding.

H&R and Marlin were both in their own production facilities, still using their "experienced" employees, and had no influence from Remington. ...Yet they were both letting quality slip, and putting too many 'lemons' on the market.


Regardless of our opinions, what it comes down to is that H&R/Remington no longer viewed the single-shot line as profitable. That could mean that they were unhappy with a 30% profit margin, when they really wanted 50% profit; or it could mean that they were getting squeezed to 15% profit, rather than 20%. Only the company executives know the answer to that one.
Unless you talk to them yourself, the best answer will come from people like DPris - the guys that are in the loop, and have been for many years.
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Old November 6, 2015, 07:21 AM   #60
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i thought marlin was going downhill for awhile before the remmy thing anyway. seems to be a unpopular opinion anyway. the budget rifles killed the handi. why would you buy a single shot when you could have a bolt action repeater like a axis, or ruger american for almost the same cost? before that they lost sales to the stevens 200 and mossberg budget guns.
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Old November 6, 2015, 08:18 AM   #61
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Quote:
i thought marlin was going downhill for awhile before the remmy thing anyway. seems to be a unpopular opinion anyway. the budget rifles killed the handi. why would you buy a single shot when you could have a bolt action repeater like a axis, or ruger american for almost the same cost? before that they lost sales to the stevens 200 and mossberg budget guns.
I just like the H&R, combination of handling and balance and carry weight with simple operation. I just liked it and not looking for a cheep gun. Maybe the first H&R was for price. My first shotgun was a Browning Auto 5 that set me back $200 back when that was real money. I later got an H&R shotgun to carry in my trunk for spur of the moment hunting. Surprise! I did better with the (?) $50 H&R than my 4x the cost fancy gloss semi-auto. The rifles are nice for the same reason. Call it an acquired taste. I never care for barrel swapping, when a whole new gun was so little cost. My first 28ga was an impulse curiosity H&R buy. That is a great little shell, so; later I got a nicer double. I still love that little 28 and use it quite a lot. H&R also made great little 20 slug gun with a leupold compact scope. The gun, merits the scope.

Thats why.
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Old November 6, 2015, 10:29 AM   #62
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no doubt those h&rs put alot of meat on many tables back in the day. they just got lost in the ongoing change. heck was gun i shot was a h&r 410. wish i still had the gun
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Old November 6, 2015, 10:42 AM   #63
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I have rifles that cost thousands, yet bring me no pleasure.

But my $100 45/70 handi rifle, with wimpy loadings, has been a lot of fun for 15 years.
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Old November 8, 2015, 11:02 PM   #64
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I've had the NEF Handis, a Rossi, and T/C Encores, and my problem with all of them with high-pressure rounds is cases that stick in the chamber, and the ejector won't eject them. Then your day is over if you don't have a ramrod.

Be careful with the Ruger American Rifle - handle before you buy- the mag falls out if a stiff breeze blows.
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Old November 9, 2015, 07:34 PM   #65
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I have two of these rifles and I can't complain. The reason they went extinct? Safe to say profit and competition. Not many would pay the same for a break action single as they would a bolt gun. Then they also have to compete with themselves on the used market. They can be had used for $200ish usually. A new one was about 50% more. Then there's the whole freedom group thing. Heres my theory, ford killed the ranger for slowing sales and to enhance f150 sales. They wanted to sell more of the f150 and keep it on top. So they killed off their own cheaper alternative. Freedom group killed NEF to up the sales of their other guns. Most people didn't care about their guns since their only guns they made anymore were singles. By killing off NEF it increases sells of their other stuff. Basically getting rid of something they don't care about to embrace their favorites.
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Old November 9, 2015, 08:29 PM   #66
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Look into Mossberg MVP in .308. Or Savage Hog hunter in same caliber for a gun with irons.

Ruger American is a solid buy as mentioned by others. Mossberg makes 100 ATR too which is their budget offering. Marlin X7 is another great low budget option, supposedly the best budget offering out there.

For a brush gun they make the handi rifle in .300 BLK, now that's a brush cal.
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Old November 9, 2015, 10:20 PM   #67
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WV,
No.
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Old November 12, 2015, 07:08 AM   #68
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I cannot agree that this gun was discontinued due to demand when I now see both CVA and Rossi building equivalent guns. The Rossi looking like another unabashed knockoff of an American classic. I guess we (H&R fans)should be flattered that the H&R is now elevated to the same status as the 1892 Winchester and merits copies from Rossi. Who next Uberti? I also believe that Winchester, if properly managed, would have offered an 1892 back when they were an American company. I give credit to current Winchester for doing right by the product line. Freedom Group is the kiss of death. I suppose the H&R brand will never get sold to some maker who understands the product. Heck, 1/2 the customers dont even get it.

It is not about BUDGET or CHEEP, this was a special gun.
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Old November 12, 2015, 07:42 AM   #69
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I do agree, the quality was up there with guns costing double. That's not the point though, they were also better in every way. Shorter and lighter means everything after carrying a rifle from sunrise to sunset. Can't get ant simpler either, no need for a repeater, all that's needed is the simple break action. And nothing beats the cool factor of the ejector.
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Old November 12, 2015, 11:58 AM   #70
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Are CVA & Rossi guns built in America, with the same production cost structure?

Guys- people will always tend to believe a favorite theory, despite any actual facts involved.

I gave you the story from the people who made the H&R guns.
Take it or leave it.
If you know more about it than they do, fine by me.
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