Can I shoot 22 short in a 22 LR chamber?

ballistic gelatin · March 18, 2002, 04:57 PM

Can I shoot 22 short in a 22 LR chamber? Pistol, rifle or revolver? How about automatic versus single shot/bolt action.

**Mal H** · March 18, 2002, 05:10 PM

In general, yes. With semi-auto's, you may or may not get the action to cycle reliably with the odds going against it if the semi is set up specifically for long rifle. With revolvers and bolt actions, you'll probably never have a problem.

Watch-Six · March 18, 2002, 05:13 PM

Yes, you can. The gun may not feed them from the magazine, especially with an autoloader. In a revolver or bolt action single shot they are A-ok. Watch-Six

629 shooter · March 18, 2002, 05:35 PM

Some lever actions like my Marlin 39AS will also handle shorts , longs and long rifles.

Johnny Guest · March 18, 2002, 06:59 PM

My Dad gave me a Remington 512 when I was about 11, I think. Marked ".22 S, L, & LR" right on the chamber. With it came two boxes of Remington .22 Shorts. Only stipulation was that I had to buy my own ammo, and, for a time, shoot and hunt only with Dad present. He had a Stevens-Springfield Model 87 which only used LR, and he would sometimes give me a few of his cartridges to shoot. Man, it was like shooting a magnum! Of course, I kept a box of LR HP for rabbit hunting, but the shorts were fine for plinking cans and lizards at the dump.

Some will tell you that "excessive" use of shorts in an LR chamber will cause throat errosion. May be true, but it is not so bad as shooting hot .38 Spls in a .357 mag chamber, and we ALL do that.

Seriously, though--the bigger problem is that a build-up of lead at front of the chamber may make chambering LRs difficult. Ought to throughly clean with solvent and a brush if you've been shooting a lot of shorts.

Have fun! I certainly did.

Best,
Johnny

Commander Fan · March 18, 2002, 07:42 PM

The throat errosion Johnny is talking about is the result of the unobstructed 'jump' the bullet encounters, within the distance between the cartridge and the chamber's shoulder.

While looking into the breech end of the barrel, you will notice where the chamber ends and the rifling begins. With a standard long-rifle cartride, the bullet sits at, or near, engagement of the rifling, and begins rotation the instant the cartridge begins it's detonation. With a short round, the bullet is sent at full speed into the shoulder of the chamber, producing wear after prolonged practice.

In theory, this 'ledge' encounter will cause minor destabilization and deformation of the non-jacketed bullet, thus reducing accuracy. Although not directly related, a similar result occurs when firing .38 Spc loads in a .357 Mag chambered revolver. But in this case, it is because of the longer travel within the over-bore cylinder chamber. The bullet has a longer distance to become 'off-yaw'. Here, the forcing cone of the revolver's barrel can be compared the the shoulder of the .22 long-rifle chamber.

In both cases, it's the extended 'free travel' that's the diminishing accuracy factor.

All that said, I have fired a couple hundred 'short' rounds through my Stevens Favorite which reads, ".22 Long Rifle Only", on the barrel. I have not noticed any reduction in accuracy or excessive shoulder wear.

Good Luck

rock_jock · March 18, 2002, 07:50 PM

Commander,

Great explanation! Thanks. Posts like yours are why I like this site so much.

DC67 · March 31, 2020, 12:42 PM

Anyone in the group shoot a 22 Short? If so, wondering if I could buy ten spent casings?

Bill DeShivs · March 31, 2020, 12:53 PM

Throat erosion is not a problem with modern cartridges in .22.
Shooting shorts in a LR chamber will leave a build up in the chamber that causes the LR round to hang up. Simply cleaning the chamber well will alleviate this.

dahermit · March 31, 2020, 02:09 PM

My older brother had a J.C. Higgins Model 30 (had a pull-out strap), that shot shorts, longs and long rifle cartridges. It was a tube fed, autoloader. We seldom shot anything other than shorts in it inasmuch as shorts were the cheapest. It burned-up when the mobile home I was living in at the time caught fire.

Scorch · March 31, 2020, 04:21 PM

Quote:

The throat errosion Johnny is talking about is the result of the unobstructed 'jump' the bullet encounters, within the distance between the cartridge and the chamber's shoulder.

Neat idea, except there is no "shoulder" in a 22LR chamber, the bullets are the same diameter as the case. Look at a reamer: no "shoulder". Nope, none. What causes the loss of accuracy is that the bullet goes wherever it wants to becasue it is not in the rifleing for a short distance, and the bullet gets misaligned with the bore.

jrothWA · April 1, 2020, 01:35 PM

Yes, .22 Short can fire thruogh a .22 LR, Long chamber, enough will lead to a carbon ring forming THAT may hang a long er case from seating in the chamber.

Take a pipe cleaner , dipped in solvent and swab the chamber, is the simple way to avoid.

Bart B. · April 1, 2020, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Throat erosion is not a problem with modern cartridges in .22.

Rimfire match barrels erode near twice as much today compared to the 1970's and earlier. Used to last 50 to 60 thousand rounds before the dark throat erosion starting at 6 o'clock worked its way to 3 and 9 o'clock. Nowadays 30 thousand rounds is normal.

Ammo today ain't as accurate either.

Picher · April 1, 2020, 04:05 PM

My brother bought a Remington 514 that he passed down to me. It had a rotating safety at the rear of the bolt. I bought LOTS of Sears .22 Shorts and fired them in it. After over 3,000 rounds, long rifle shells wouldn't extract from the chamber, which I found was belled ahead of the Shorts case length.

I had a blacksmith in town mount a Weaver 4X scope on it and it proved quite accurate.

The steel on that very cheap single-shot was very soft and though it shot quite accurately with a scope on it, I traded it for a repeater when I earned enough money to do so.

JP

Drm50 · April 1, 2020, 04:56 PM

I just bought a 5000 assorted shorts. I got Wins, Rems and CCI in bricks. I haven’t shot a short for years. I’ve got several rifles that will shoot them. I’ve got a 61 Win that loves them.
I haven’t bought them since they cost more than LRs. Use to buy them as a kid because they cost 1/2 as much as LR-HV. I only bought these because they were a steal. Cheap ammo for kids to plink up. Best squirrel and Bull frog ammo you can get,

brasscollector · April 1, 2020, 06:27 PM

I'm not sure what the record is but this has got to be in the top-5 necro threads. OP was over 18 years ago.

Bill DeShivs · April 1, 2020, 08:00 PM

"I bought LOTS of Sears .22 Shorts and fired them in it. After over 3,000 rounds, long rifle shells wouldn't extract from the chamber, which I found was belled ahead of the Shorts case length. "

If the chamber was "belled," it wouldn't affect extraction. As I said, shooting shorts can cause a buildup in the chamber. Sometimes it can be difficult to remove.

**44 AMP** · April 2, 2020, 12:31 AM

Quote:

If the chamber was "belled," it wouldn't affect extraction.

If the chamber is "belled, ringed. or jugged" meaning the steel has been eroded just in front of the shorter case mouth, it definitely CAN affect the extraction of the longer case after firing. And how much, depends on how deep the "pits, or ring of eroded material is.

If deep enough, the longer case will swell into them on firing, and brass spring back might not be enough to overcome the "locking lugs" formed on the case.

The same effect for an opposite reason can happen if you fire longer cases in a heavily crudded up chamber, (assuming you can get them to chamber).

Bill DeShivs · April 2, 2020, 12:36 AM

I guess you're correct about that. The point of my comment is that chamber erosion to that point is exceedingly rare. It's usually just crud build up in the chamber.

SGW Gunsmith · April 2, 2020, 03:51 PM

I've done "lots and lots" of renovations involving Remington Model 12 slide action rifles. Many of these rifles were called, and used as, "gallery guns" at local county and state fairs back in the day when "live-fire shooting" was much more acceptable than what's going on these days.
ALL, of the ammunition used in these gallery rifles was .22 Short ammunition, which was intentional by those who ran the gallery. To be anywhere near accurate enough, .22 Shorts should be shot from a rifle involving 1:20 rifle twist rather than the 1:16 those pump rifles were made with.
I've inspected bores, and chambers, in these rifles with a borescope, no other way of doing that properly otherwise, unless the barrel is slit lengthwise for inspection. While there was indeed a "carbon ring" build up where the .22 Short bullet left the cartridge case, it could only go so far, and I never found enough erosion that pitted the chamber.

**Mal H** · April 2, 2020, 04:35 PM

NOTICE

This ancient thread was brought back to life by a new member to ask a question that should have gone into a new thread - see post #8. But, it wasn't so if anyone can help him ...

langenc · April 2, 2020, 06:06 PM

Up until the late 50s or so, all guns were labelled s-l-lr.

Id like to know if todays LRs have any different chamber dimensions??
Bet not. "gallery guns" may have been different. Anyone able to measue and post results.

Thank you.

berettaprofessor · April 2, 2020, 07:37 PM

I PM'ed the OP and offered to send them the casings they wanted. You can close the thread.

SGW Gunsmith · April 3, 2020, 10:25 AM

Very generous of you.

We can only hope, being that his initial post is so ancient, that the fella is still upright!

**Mal H** · April 3, 2020, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berettaprofessor

I PM'ed the OP and offered to send them the casings they wanted. You can close the thread.

I assume you mean you PM'ed DC67 not the OP (ballistic gelatin) who hasn't been around these parts for over 17 years.

No need to close it since some fairly useful info is sneaking through.

March 18, 2002, 04:57 PM	#1
ballistic gelatin Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 392	Can I shoot 22 short in a 22 LR chamber? Can I shoot 22 short in a 22 LR chamber? Pistol, rifle or revolver? How about automatic versus single shot/bolt action.

March 18, 2002, 05:35 PM	#4
629 shooter Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Location: IN , USA Posts: 967	Some lever actions like my Marlin 39AS will also handle shorts , longs and long rifles. __________________ "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

March 18, 2002, 06:59 PM	#5
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	I'd have been lost if not - - - My Dad gave me a Remington 512 when I was about 11, I think. Marked ".22 S, L, & LR" right on the chamber. With it came two boxes of Remington .22 Shorts. Only stipulation was that I had to buy my own ammo, and, for a time, shoot and hunt only with Dad present. He had a Stevens-Springfield Model 87 which only used LR, and he would sometimes give me a few of his cartridges to shoot. Man, it was like shooting a magnum! Of course, I kept a box of LR HP for rabbit hunting, but the shorts were fine for plinking cans and lizards at the dump. Some will tell you that "excessive" use of shorts in an LR chamber will cause throat errosion. May be true, but it is not so bad as shooting hot .38 Spls in a .357 mag chamber, and we ALL do that. Seriously, though--the bigger problem is that a build-up of lead at front of the chamber may make chambering LRs difficult. Ought to throughly clean with solvent and a brush if you've been shooting a lot of shorts. Have fun! I certainly did. Best, Johnny

March 31, 2020, 12:53 PM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	Throat erosion is not a problem with modern cartridges in .22. Shooting shorts in a LR chamber will leave a build up in the chamber that causes the LR round to hang up. Simply cleaning the chamber well will alleviate this. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 1, 2020, 06:27 PM	#16
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	I'm not sure what the record is but this has got to be in the top-5 necro threads. OP was over 18 years ago. __________________ He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. -Charlie Daniels

March 18, 2002, 05:10 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	In general, yes. With semi-auto's, you may or may not get the action to cycle reliably with the odds going against it if the semi is set up specifically for long rifle. With revolvers and bolt actions, you'll probably never have a problem.

March 18, 2002, 05:13 PM	#3
Watch-Six Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2000 Location: Utah Posts: 654	Yes, you can. The gun may not feed them from the magazine, especially with an autoloader. In a revolver or bolt action single shot they are A-ok. Watch-Six

March 18, 2002, 07:42 PM	#6
Commander Fan Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 234	The throat errosion Johnny is talking about is the result of the unobstructed 'jump' the bullet encounters, within the distance between the cartridge and the chamber's shoulder. While looking into the breech end of the barrel, you will notice where the chamber ends and the rifling begins. With a standard long-rifle cartride, the bullet sits at, or near, engagement of the rifling, and begins rotation the instant the cartridge begins it's detonation. With a short round, the bullet is sent at full speed into the shoulder of the chamber, producing wear after prolonged practice. In theory, this 'ledge' encounter will cause minor destabilization and deformation of the non-jacketed bullet, thus reducing accuracy. Although not directly related, a similar result occurs when firing .38 Spc loads in a .357 Mag chambered revolver. But in this case, it is because of the longer travel within the over-bore cylinder chamber. The bullet has a longer distance to become 'off-yaw'. Here, the forcing cone of the revolver's barrel can be compared the the shoulder of the .22 long-rifle chamber. In both cases, it's the extended 'free travel' that's the diminishing accuracy factor. All that said, I have fired a couple hundred 'short' rounds through my Stevens Favorite which reads, ".22 Long Rifle Only", on the barrel. I have not noticed any reduction in accuracy or excessive shoulder wear. Good Luck

March 18, 2002, 07:50 PM	#7
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,779	Commander, Great explanation! Thanks. Posts like yours are why I like this site so much.

March 31, 2020, 12:42 PM	#8
DC67 Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2020 Posts: 1	22 Short Anyone in the group shoot a 22 Short? If so, wondering if I could buy ten spent casings?

March 31, 2020, 02:09 PM	#10
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	My older brother had a J.C. Higgins Model 30 (had a pull-out strap), that shot shorts, longs and long rifle cartridges. It was a tube fed, autoloader. We seldom shot anything other than shorts in it inasmuch as shorts were the cheapest. It burned-up when the mobile home I was living in at the time caught fire.

April 1, 2020, 01:35 PM	#12
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Yes, .22 Short can fire thruogh a .22 LR, Long chamber, enough will lead to a carbon ring forming THAT may hang a long er case from seating in the chamber. Take a pipe cleaner , dipped in solvent and swab the chamber, is the simple way to avoid.

April 1, 2020, 04:05 PM	#14
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	My brother bought a Remington 514 that he passed down to me. It had a rotating safety at the rear of the bolt. I bought LOTS of Sears .22 Shorts and fired them in it. After over 3,000 rounds, long rifle shells wouldn't extract from the chamber, which I found was belled ahead of the Shorts case length. I had a blacksmith in town mount a Weaver 4X scope on it and it proved quite accurate. The steel on that very cheap single-shot was very soft and though it shot quite accurately with a scope on it, I traded it for a repeater when I earned enough money to do so. JP

April 1, 2020, 04:56 PM	#15
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	I just bought a 5000 assorted shorts. I got Wins, Rems and CCI in bricks. I haven’t shot a short for years. I’ve got several rifles that will shoot them. I’ve got a 61 Win that loves them. I haven’t bought them since they cost more than LRs. Use to buy them as a kid because they cost 1/2 as much as LR-HV. I only bought these because they were a steal. Cheap ammo for kids to plink up. Best squirrel and Bull frog ammo you can get,

April 1, 2020, 08:00 PM	#17
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	"I bought LOTS of Sears .22 Shorts and fired them in it. After over 3,000 rounds, long rifle shells wouldn't extract from the chamber, which I found was belled ahead of the Shorts case length. " If the chamber was "belled," it wouldn't affect extraction. As I said, shooting shorts can cause a buildup in the chamber. Sometimes it can be difficult to remove. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 2, 2020, 12:36 AM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	I guess you're correct about that. The point of my comment is that chamber erosion to that point is exceedingly rare. It's usually just crud build up in the chamber. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 2, 2020, 03:51 PM	#20
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	I've done "lots and lots" of renovations involving Remington Model 12 slide action rifles. Many of these rifles were called, and used as, "gallery guns" at local county and state fairs back in the day when "live-fire shooting" was much more acceptable than what's going on these days. ALL, of the ammunition used in these gallery rifles was .22 Short ammunition, which was intentional by those who ran the gallery. To be anywhere near accurate enough, .22 Shorts should be shot from a rifle involving 1:20 rifle twist rather than the 1:16 those pump rifles were made with. I've inspected bores, and chambers, in these rifles with a borescope, no other way of doing that properly otherwise, unless the barrel is slit lengthwise for inspection. While there was indeed a "carbon ring" build up where the .22 Short bullet left the cartridge case, it could only go so far, and I never found enough erosion that pitted the chamber.

April 2, 2020, 04:35 PM	#21
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	NOTICE This ancient thread was brought back to life by a new member to ask a question that should have gone into a new thread - see post #8. But, it wasn't so if anyone can help him ...

April 2, 2020, 06:06 PM	#22
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Up until the late 50s or so, all guns were labelled s-l-lr. Id like to know if todays LRs have any different chamber dimensions?? Bet not. "gallery guns" may have been different. Anyone able to measue and post results. Thank you.

April 2, 2020, 07:37 PM	#23
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	I PM'ed the OP and offered to send them the casings they wanted. You can close the thread. __________________ "What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own." 44AMP on thefiringline.com

April 3, 2020, 10:25 AM	#24
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	Very generous of you. We can only hope, being that his initial post is so ancient, that the fella is still upright!