June 7, 2018, 10:45 AM | #151 | ||
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https://ezine.m1911.org//forum.php Disclaimer: I know the owner of M1911.org. Secondly: as always, we cannot generalize. Quote:
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June 7, 2018, 10:51 AM | #152 | ||
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[Edit to add] Found another one for you: http://www.independentsentinel.com/p...as-cruzs-case/ Quote:
Last edited by Aguila Blanca; June 7, 2018 at 11:22 AM. |
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June 7, 2018, 11:32 AM | #153 | ||
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...606-story.html |
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June 7, 2018, 12:54 PM | #154 | |
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Hmmm ...
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After listening to the interview, I'm less satisfied with the actions of the second "security monitor." Granted, apparently they were "monitors" (meaning "eyes"), not security guards as was initially reported, but their training (probably provided by the Broward County Sheriff's office, and likely by Scot Peterson, the discredited SRO) was seemingly suspect. We haven't heard Coach Taylor's version, but Medina told the detectives that when Taylor heard the gunfire he locked himself in a janitor's closet "as we were trained to do." Somehow, I don't think the intent of the training was for the security monitor to save his own hide by locking himself into a place where nobody knew where he was, and that would hold only himself. I suspect the intent of "lock down" training was to get the students into the classrooms and to lock the classroom doors. All in all, every bit of additional information that comes out about Parkland points to a monumental institutional failure. It was a classic demonstration of Murphy's Law at work: "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." |
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June 7, 2018, 06:04 PM | #155 |
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Sorry should have been more clear . You are correct we can compare . My point was that as countries laws differ so does the ability to regulate . To point out Australia's gun laws and how they work or don't work is pointless if you live in the US . Those types of laws "can't" ( choke cough ) happen here . So pointing out how well a law works in one country that in theory can't happen in another is a waist of time because the approach as you say is completely different , the US constitution does not allow for the same restrictions . It's not like the US has a choice to have free speech , RKBA etc , it's built in to the foundation . You have to look at the laws all the way to there foundation to then truly compare . If they didn't start from the same place and can never get to the same place they're really not all that comparable .
There's probably not a lot of mass shootings in North Korea . Do we really want to compare one country to another ? It matters what the foundation is that allows any country to control there firearms .
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June 7, 2018, 06:06 PM | #156 | |||
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I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that we don't positively know enough about it. I imagine discovery during a civil trial will be a wonder. Quote:
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But for the SRO? Failure. Complete and total abysmal failure.
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June 7, 2018, 11:17 PM | #157 | |
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June 8, 2018, 07:28 AM | #158 | |
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Anyone who gives a hoot about this school shooting should read the collaborative agreement that school superintendent Runcie and sheriff Israel entered into.
Broward county and officials of the state of Florida entered into an agreement to forgive infractions committed by certain students. Look at the signatories to the Broward County collaborative agreement. Quote:
i have numerous friends who are school teachers. Politically motivated hacks who enter into these types of agreements could care less that disruptive students interfere with the learning experience of other students. |
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June 8, 2018, 07:33 AM | #159 | |
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This brings up another good point. What to do when an actual fire breaks out during an active shooting? These murderers often bring explosives and incendiary devices. Tracers can start fires too in common building materials.
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June 8, 2018, 10:08 AM | #160 | ||
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June 8, 2018, 11:21 AM | #161 | ||
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June 8, 2018, 12:09 PM | #162 | ||
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Building and fire safety codes have mandated non-combustible construction for schools since the 1960s. Prior to that, I'm sure schools used at least some wood framing -- typically encased in horsehair plaster, which is very resistant to fire. The possibility of a tracer bullet setting the construction materials of even the oldest school building on fire is almost non-existent. And very few of those old school buildings are still used as schools. (My old grammar school is now town offices.) I would say that with about 95 percent certainty any school you attended in the 1970s was constructed of non-combustible materials. Quote:
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June 8, 2018, 01:18 PM | #163 |
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A friend of mine built a private school here in CA and still owns and runs it . I'll pick his brain on this to see what materials were mandated . Well as I was writing this my buddy already got back to me . He said you are correct , his school is mostly all brick , concrete and steel .
Thanks for the info , I had no idea that was the code
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June 8, 2018, 05:39 PM | #164 | |
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June 8, 2018, 09:24 PM | #165 |
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^^^ Yepp. Fire is fire, the heat doesn't much care what's burning to produce it. I'm not at all trying to downplay the dangers of fires, but if we're going to be tossing out statements about what starts fires I think we should try to be accurate, rather than spreading misinformation.
Another factor to consider is that all schools built in the last 20 years or so probably have full sprinkler protection. Parkland looks new enough that I'd guess it's sprinklered. Contrary to the way they show it in movies, other than a few specialty ("deluge") systems, when a fire activates a sprinkler system, not all the heads go off. Each head is independent, activated by a thermal fuse on the head itself. The head or heads nearest and above the fire will go off first, and additional heads get triggered only if the fire continues to spread rather than being extinguished or at least controlled by the initial sprinkler activation. What this means is that mass fire evacuations in fully sprinklered buildings probably aren't necessary. In the event of a shooter, obviously getting everyone out into the corridors just creates a shooting gallery, so maybe schools (those with sprinklers) should be looking at a shelter in place procedure for fires rather than immediate, mass evacuations. The widespread use of alarm systems also suggests that maybe having manual pull stations in school buildings isn't a good idea. There are smoke alarms that can detect products of combustion in the air before we can even see or smell them. Why do we need manual pull stations? They're an anachronism. |
June 8, 2018, 09:31 PM | #166 | |
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Here's what the 2012 International Building Code says about sprinkler system requirements. The IBC is the basis for all building codes in the United States, as far as I know. It comes out every three years, so there are 2015 and 2018 versions in the wild. I have 2012 because my state is still in the process of adopting a newer version.
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June 9, 2018, 07:06 AM | #167 | |
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2. Ditch class early on Fridays My county has zero building codes. IBC or otherwise.
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June 9, 2018, 08:41 AM | #168 | ||
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https://www.buildingsguide.com/blog/...g-codes-state/ Even if you may be in a jurisdiction that doesn't have a code, any architect who designs a school is going to follow the IBC anyway, because that's the standard of care for designing buildings and if he doesn't at least meet minimum code requirements he would be leaving himself wide open to a lawsuit for professional negligence ... and if he didn't adhere to the standard of care, his insurance company would drop him like a hot potato. From the ICC web site: Quote:
I note that it says "in use or adopted," so there may indeed by isolated jurisdictions where the IBC isn't law. Nonetheless, an architect designing a school would be crazy not to follow it. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; June 9, 2018 at 09:02 AM. |
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June 9, 2018, 08:59 AM | #169 |
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I lived in a place with no building codes. For a while, I lived on two acres in town. I was poor at the time so I built my house out of 100% used materials. The whole set up cost me $500. A few years later I bought the remainder of the property on my street for $3000. About ten years ago I signed an oil lease and was getting $800-1500 a month in royalties up until I divorced. All in all, I lived there a good while. I built all kinds of things there, never once was the city involved and I never even needed a permit.
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June 9, 2018, 10:52 AM | #170 |
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While a sort of interesting topic, fires in schools is not gunfire in schools, we're way off topic now, and so, this one is done.
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