OK OK, I need help... 6mm Flobert?

mellow_c · November 28, 2019, 06:31 AM

So I picked up a rifle.

Chambered in 6mm Flobert.

I’ve never seen one but the internet shows me it’s a tinny little round, smaller (shorter) than a 22 short.

People say that it’s the European equivalent to a “CB cap” ? But based on the pictures Ive seen, I’m not sure, because the CB caps appear to have a longer case than the little Flobert.

I just wonder what This rifle is capable of and designed to chamber and fire. I’d like to find the cheapest option. 6mm Flobert isn’t cheap.

**44 AMP** · November 28, 2019, 12:48 PM

Its capable of shoot all the way across the room! It is the approximate equivalent of a CB cap though of course the case and the bullet are different from ours. I think there was a 4mm Flobert too, but I'd have to look that up.

It's a "parlor" (Parlour) rifle. In the later 1800s through the very early 1900s a moderately popular recreation was parlor shooting. If you were wealthy enough to have a house with a parlor. Today we would say living room, in the US. but its not exactly the same thing. People were more formal (and a lot more polite

) about a great many things back then, and the parlor was where one entertained guests.

Targets were put up, and people shot them with small caliber rimfire or pinfire rifles and pistols, often single shots, which used very tiny amounts of powder or no powder at all, just the force of the primer. Ammo for these guns has been obsolete and essentially unobtainable for a century or more, though it is now the 21st century and somebody is probably making small quantities somewhere, for a hefty price.

If you find a source for new made ammo, and you want to shoot the gun, open your wallet and pay whatever they want to get it. You're not going to find any at Cabela's and certainly not at WalMart.

Jim Watson · November 28, 2019, 01:17 PM

Current production 6mm Flobert from Umarex is a BB cap.
http://shop.ammobee.com/ammo/rimfire...al-bb-cap-1501

The 4mm Zimmerstutzen (Parlor Rifle) seems more refined than the 6mm Flobert. The guns are very elaborate, understudies for schuetzen rifles.
Ammo available.
http://www.iss-internationalshooters...df/4mmzimm.pdf

taylorce1 · November 28, 2019, 09:57 PM

Cheapest way to shoot that rifle is as a 6mm Flobert. At 40 cents a round it isnt cheap for a RF, but anything else is going to cost a lot as well. If and it's a big "IF" it could be relined to shoot a .22 RF you'll be able to purchase several hundred if not a thousand of rounds of Flobert ammo. So you got to ask yourself, how much are you going to shoot it?

mellow_c · November 29, 2019, 02:08 AM

Ok, so BB caps only.

Makes sense, CB caps are basically just 22 shorts, correct?

I found this deal...

https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/p...14011/redirect

And I found the same ammo (150 count) for about $50 from various sellers on Gun Broker. Depending on how much shipping costs, I might be able to get away with 35 cents a round. That’s not terrible.

And it’s a single shot.

So if I only shot 25 rounds at a time it would cost $8.75

Honestly, going into this purchase, I knew what it was, (a parlor rifle) and I think given the rarity of the rifle and the interesting history associated with them, I’d be happy to own it even if I didn’t shoot it. So I’m perfectly content either way.

I’ll take good care of it, show it to people from time to time, exclaim my pride in owning a firearm that fires the weakest cartridge ever produced (correct I would assume?) and shoot it a little here and there, just for fun, or in case the new shooter I’m teaching is extremely timid and even a CB cap is too much. Hah!

I’ll pay 35 cents a round for that.

If anyone can find it cheaper, please please let me know.

mellow_c · November 29, 2019, 02:10 AM

Also, it’s in quite good condition and I think I got it for an excellent price.

Jim Watson · November 29, 2019, 11:33 AM

Got a picture?

Quote:

Makes sense, CB caps are basically just 22 shorts, correct?

US makers load "CB Shorts" (also "CB Longs") to run through manually operated repeaters. There was one guy who even got a .22 Short auto made for ISU Rapid Fire to function with them, all the barrel ports closed.
The original CB cap is much shorter.

mellow_c · November 29, 2019, 03:35 PM

Thank you Jim. I’ll see what I can do about a picture. I’ve always struggled with file size and posting pics to the forum, I don’t use an outside website to store pictures which allows me to just post a link. So I’m pretty much clueless about how to post pictures.

Geezerbiker · November 30, 2019, 02:39 AM

Many years ago I bought a a rifle like that for my daughter. I had the chamber reamed for .22 short. The .22 CB cap that it was chambered for was impossible to find around here.

Later on we talked about have it opened up for .22LR but I gave her another rifle instead.

That little rifle is wickedly accurate and she took to shooting like ducks to water.

I don't remember the make of the rifle but if you're interested, I'll text my daughter and ask her...

Tony

mellow_c · November 30, 2019, 05:25 PM

Sure Tony,

Always interested in new things!

Which reminds me, I really ought to tell you all what I’ve got even if I don’t get a picture posted.

It’s a GUSTAV GEKSCHON & CO. ALFA chambered in 6mm Flobert. Single shot bolt action.

Jim Watson · December 1, 2019, 12:40 AM

OK
I have the 1911 ALFA catalog reprint with the type advertised.

Geezerbiker · December 1, 2019, 04:39 AM

If memory server and it doesn't always, her rifle is a JGJ but I haven't looked at it in at least 15 years.

I've texted her but I don't know when she'll get back to me with pix...

Tony

Inverness11 · December 8, 2019, 06:50 PM

I have a copy of the 1903 Sears catalog that lists Flobert rifles with a disclaimer to the extent of, “We do not recommend Flobert rifles. Get yourself a decent rifle.”

Enjoy your rifle, it’s a neat piece of history.

toot44 · February 14, 2022, 01:27 PM

22 CB'S or BB'S are to hot for my rifle.

Bill DeShivs · February 14, 2022, 11:35 PM

The Flobert action is much too weak for even .22 shorts.

natman · February 15, 2022, 11:41 AM

Just because a rifle is chambered in 6mm Flobert doesn't necessarily make it a Flobert, any more than a rifle chambered in 243 Winchester has to be a Winchester.

CB caps are NOT the same as 22 Short. CB caps are very low powered, usually just by the primer.

Flobert action rifles are ridiculously weak. I probably wouldn't shoot one under any circumstances, but if I had one in 6mm Flobert I certainly wouldn't shoot anything else in it.

The OP's rifle is a single shot bolt, so it isn't a Flobert action.

Jim Watson · February 15, 2022, 12:38 PM

Right. The real Floberts (four main types) were so common that they defined the rimfire rifle in Europe to the point that any inexpensive rifle was called a Flobert, even bolt actions.

ballardw · February 15, 2022, 04:36 PM

I ended up with almost 200 rounds of 6mm Flobert from a going out of business auction of reloading and ammo components over 20 years ago. The boxes then were labeled $8.95 per 100.
Still have them "just in case".

Geezerbiker · February 17, 2022, 08:15 AM

I bought one of those rifles cheap because I thought it was chambered for .22 short. Later on I had the chamber cut for .22 short and never looked back...

November 28, 2019, 06:31 AM	#1
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	OK OK, I need help... 6mm Flobert? So I picked up a rifle. Chambered in 6mm Flobert. I’ve never seen one but the internet shows me it’s a tinny little round, smaller (shorter) than a 22 short. People say that it’s the European equivalent to a “CB cap” ? But based on the pictures Ive seen, I’m not sure, because the CB caps appear to have a longer case than the little Flobert. I just wonder what This rifle is capable of and designed to chamber and fire. I’d like to find the cheapest option. 6mm Flobert isn’t cheap.

November 28, 2019, 12:48 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Its capable of shoot all the way across the room! It is the approximate equivalent of a CB cap though of course the case and the bullet are different from ours. I think there was a 4mm Flobert too, but I'd have to look that up. It's a "parlor" (Parlour) rifle. In the later 1800s through the very early 1900s a moderately popular recreation was parlor shooting. If you were wealthy enough to have a house with a parlor. Today we would say living room, in the US. but its not exactly the same thing. People were more formal (and a lot more polite ) about a great many things back then, and the parlor was where one entertained guests. Targets were put up, and people shot them with small caliber rimfire or pinfire rifles and pistols, often single shots, which used very tiny amounts of powder or no powder at all, just the force of the primer. Ammo for these guns has been obsolete and essentially unobtainable for a century or more, though it is now the 21st century and somebody is probably making small quantities somewhere, for a hefty price. If you find a source for new made ammo, and you want to shoot the gun, open your wallet and pay whatever they want to get it. You're not going to find any at Cabela's and certainly not at WalMart. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 28, 2019, 09:57 PM	#4
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Cheapest way to shoot that rifle is as a 6mm Flobert. At 40 cents a round it isnt cheap for a RF, but anything else is going to cost a lot as well. If and it's a big "IF" it could be relined to shoot a .22 RF you'll be able to purchase several hundred if not a thousand of rounds of Flobert ammo. So you got to ask yourself, how much are you going to shoot it? __________________ NRA Life Member

December 8, 2019, 06:50 PM	#13
Inverness11 Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 35	I have a copy of the 1903 Sears catalog that lists Flobert rifles with a disclaimer to the extent of, “We do not recommend Flobert rifles. Get yourself a decent rifle.” Enjoy your rifle, it’s a neat piece of history. __________________ An armed society is a polite society.

February 14, 2022, 11:35 PM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	The Flobert action is much too weak for even .22 shorts. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 28, 2019, 01:17 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Current production 6mm Flobert from Umarex is a BB cap. http://shop.ammobee.com/ammo/rimfire...al-bb-cap-1501 The 4mm Zimmerstutzen (Parlor Rifle) seems more refined than the 6mm Flobert. The guns are very elaborate, understudies for schuetzen rifles. Ammo available. http://www.iss-internationalshooters...df/4mmzimm.pdf

November 29, 2019, 02:08 AM	#5
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Ok, so BB caps only. Makes sense, CB caps are basically just 22 shorts, correct? I found this deal... https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/p...14011/redirect And I found the same ammo (150 count) for about $50 from various sellers on Gun Broker. Depending on how much shipping costs, I might be able to get away with 35 cents a round. That’s not terrible. And it’s a single shot. So if I only shot 25 rounds at a time it would cost $8.75 Honestly, going into this purchase, I knew what it was, (a parlor rifle) and I think given the rarity of the rifle and the interesting history associated with them, I’d be happy to own it even if I didn’t shoot it. So I’m perfectly content either way. I’ll take good care of it, show it to people from time to time, exclaim my pride in owning a firearm that fires the weakest cartridge ever produced (correct I would assume?) and shoot it a little here and there, just for fun, or in case the new shooter I’m teaching is extremely timid and even a CB cap is too much. Hah! I’ll pay 35 cents a round for that. If anyone can find it cheaper, please please let me know.

November 29, 2019, 02:10 AM	#6
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Also, it’s in quite good condition and I think I got it for an excellent price.

November 29, 2019, 03:35 PM	#8
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Thank you Jim. I’ll see what I can do about a picture. I’ve always struggled with file size and posting pics to the forum, I don’t use an outside website to store pictures which allows me to just post a link. So I’m pretty much clueless about how to post pictures.

November 30, 2019, 02:39 AM	#9
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	Many years ago I bought a a rifle like that for my daughter. I had the chamber reamed for .22 short. The .22 CB cap that it was chambered for was impossible to find around here. Later on we talked about have it opened up for .22LR but I gave her another rifle instead. That little rifle is wickedly accurate and she took to shooting like ducks to water. I don't remember the make of the rifle but if you're interested, I'll text my daughter and ask her... Tony

November 30, 2019, 05:25 PM	#10
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Sure Tony, Always interested in new things! Which reminds me, I really ought to tell you all what I’ve got even if I don’t get a picture posted. It’s a GUSTAV GEKSCHON & CO. ALFA chambered in 6mm Flobert. Single shot bolt action.

December 1, 2019, 12:40 AM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	OK I have the 1911 ALFA catalog reprint with the type advertised.

December 1, 2019, 04:39 AM	#12
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	If memory server and it doesn't always, her rifle is a JGJ but I haven't looked at it in at least 15 years. I've texted her but I don't know when she'll get back to me with pix... Tony

February 14, 2022, 01:27 PM	#14
toot44 Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 83	22 CB'S or BB'S are to hot for my rifle.

February 15, 2022, 11:41 AM	#16
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,607	Just because a rifle is chambered in 6mm Flobert doesn't necessarily make it a Flobert, any more than a rifle chambered in 243 Winchester has to be a Winchester. CB caps are NOT the same as 22 Short. CB caps are very low powered, usually just by the primer. Flobert action rifles are ridiculously weak. I probably wouldn't shoot one under any circumstances, but if I had one in 6mm Flobert I certainly wouldn't shoot anything else in it. The OP's rifle is a single shot bolt, so it isn't a Flobert action. __________________ Time Travelers' Wisdom: Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow. If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again.

February 15, 2022, 12:38 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Right. The real Floberts (four main types) were so common that they defined the rimfire rifle in Europe to the point that any inexpensive rifle was called a Flobert, even bolt actions.

February 15, 2022, 04:36 PM	#18
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	I ended up with almost 200 rounds of 6mm Flobert from a going out of business auction of reloading and ammo components over 20 years ago. The boxes then were labeled $8.95 per 100. Still have them "just in case". __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

February 17, 2022, 08:15 AM	#19
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	I bought one of those rifles cheap because I thought it was chambered for .22 short. Later on I had the chamber cut for .22 short and never looked back...