Garand Load using CFE 223

FtrPilot · February 26, 2014, 07:05 PM

I am thinking about developing a Garand load using CFE 223. Since CFE 223 is a relatively new powder, there isn't any published data regarding CFE 223 and the Garand. Hodgdon does have published data for loading 30-06 with CFE 223, but makes no reference to the Garand.

I understand the issues related to using a powder that burns too fast or too slow, with regard to damaging the oprod.

I have a Shuster adjustable gas plug and will use it to minimize risk. I also have Quickload, but I don't know if Quickload has any ability to model Garand needs.

Does anyone have a Garand CFE 223 load that they recommend?

Are there any issues that I am missing?

Thanks,
FtrPilot

chiefr · February 26, 2014, 08:45 PM

Contact Uncle Nick the moderator. He is an expert on this subject and I believe he may do a Quickload check.

I know 4895 is scarce these days.

Jimro · February 27, 2014, 01:35 PM

Do you have an adjustable gas plug?

Word on CFE223 in the CMP forums is that it is not suitable for the stock Garand. It is almost as slow as H380 powder, right between BLC-2 and H380 on the Hodgdon burn rate chart.

But this data is from the NRA match load data courtesy of masterpostemple.

W748 - 48.0 grains, 147-155gr bullet
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains, 147-155gr bullet
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains, 165/168gr HPBT

This data is from hodgdon's reloading data;

150gr Nosler Boat Tail
Hodgdon CFE 223 .308" 3.250"
50.1 2,763 50,500 PSI 54.2 2,942 58,600 PSI

Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 3.250"
49.0 2,759 39,700 CUP 54.0 2,962 48,600 CUP

168gr Hornady BTHP
Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 3.230"
46.0 2,555 39,100 CUP 51.0 2,767 49,200 CUP

So you can see that a 49gr charge of BLC-2 is a starting load in the 150gr class, and a middle charge in the 168. But BLC-2 is the slowest powder on the NRA match load list, and CFE223 is slower than that, so I would really recommend an adjustable gas plug if you choose to use CFE223.

Jimro

Clark · February 27, 2014, 02:26 PM

I have used CFE223 and hear it is similar Ramshot TAC and SMP-842.
CFE I hear is loosely similar to W748, H335, BLC2, or any other ball powder that will work in a 223.

What I have noticed is that CFE223 is hard to ignite because it is a ball powder, and the anti Copper coating makes it even HARDER to ignite.

I put a small magnum primer CCI450 in a 257RAI 120 gr and the most CFE223 that will go off is 40 gr.
42 gr and it is consistently a hang fire.

This is a shame.
I build a lot of rifles for myself, and want to break them in.
CFE223 is great for breaking in rifles.... if it will go off.

mineralman55 · February 28, 2014, 09:21 AM

I inquired to Hodgdon in 2012 about using CFE223 in the Garand. They replied in no uncertain terms that it is NOT recommended for the Garand. Using a specialty gas plug would probably get you going, but there are so many other great powders for the Garand, why mess with it?

FtrPilot · February 28, 2014, 10:27 AM

mineralman55,

Thanks for providing the info you got directly from Hodgdon. Looks like I was heading down the wrong path.

I will start looking for a better solution.

Thanks to all for their inputs.

Regards,
FtrPilot

February 26, 2014, 07:05 PM	#1
FtrPilot Member Join Date: September 4, 2010 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 88	Garand Load using CFE 223 I am thinking about developing a Garand load using CFE 223. Since CFE 223 is a relatively new powder, there isn't any published data regarding CFE 223 and the Garand. Hodgdon does have published data for loading 30-06 with CFE 223, but makes no reference to the Garand. I understand the issues related to using a powder that burns too fast or too slow, with regard to damaging the oprod. I have a Shuster adjustable gas plug and will use it to minimize risk. I also have Quickload, but I don't know if Quickload has any ability to model Garand needs. Does anyone have a Garand CFE 223 load that they recommend? Are there any issues that I am missing? Thanks, FtrPilot

February 27, 2014, 01:35 PM	#3
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Do you have an adjustable gas plug? Word on CFE223 in the CMP forums is that it is not suitable for the stock Garand. It is almost as slow as H380 powder, right between BLC-2 and H380 on the Hodgdon burn rate chart. But this data is from the NRA match load data courtesy of masterpostemple. W748 - 48.0 grains, 147-155gr bullet BLC-2 - 49.0 grains, 147-155gr bullet BLC-2 - 49.0 grains, 165/168gr HPBT This data is from hodgdon's reloading data; 150gr Nosler Boat Tail Hodgdon CFE 223 .308" 3.250" 50.1 2,763 50,500 PSI 54.2 2,942 58,600 PSI Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 3.250" 49.0 2,759 39,700 CUP 54.0 2,962 48,600 CUP 168gr Hornady BTHP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 3.230" 46.0 2,555 39,100 CUP 51.0 2,767 49,200 CUP So you can see that a 49gr charge of BLC-2 is a starting load in the 150gr class, and a middle charge in the 168. But BLC-2 is the slowest powder on the NRA match load list, and CFE223 is slower than that, so I would really recommend an adjustable gas plug if you choose to use CFE223. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 27, 2014, 02:26 PM	#4
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have used CFE223 and hear it is similar Ramshot TAC and SMP-842. CFE I hear is loosely similar to W748, H335, BLC2, or any other ball powder that will work in a 223. What I have noticed is that CFE223 is hard to ignite because it is a ball powder, and the anti Copper coating makes it even HARDER to ignite. I put a small magnum primer CCI450 in a 257RAI 120 gr and the most CFE223 that will go off is 40 gr. 42 gr and it is consistently a hang fire. This is a shame. I build a lot of rifles for myself, and want to break them in. CFE223 is great for breaking in rifles.... if it will go off. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

February 28, 2014, 09:21 AM	#5
mineralman55 Member Join Date: September 29, 2009 Location: deep south Posts: 99	CFE223 In Garand I inquired to Hodgdon in 2012 about using CFE223 in the Garand. They replied in no uncertain terms that it is NOT recommended for the Garand. Using a specialty gas plug would probably get you going, but there are so many other great powders for the Garand, why mess with it?

February 26, 2014, 08:45 PM	#2
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Contact Uncle Nick the moderator. He is an expert on this subject and I believe he may do a Quickload check. I know 4895 is scarce these days.

February 28, 2014, 10:27 AM	#6
FtrPilot Member Join Date: September 4, 2010 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 88	mineralman55, Thanks for providing the info you got directly from Hodgdon. Looks like I was heading down the wrong path. I will start looking for a better solution. Thanks to all for their inputs. Regards, FtrPilot