Need help with a couple of things.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Now that I finally received my reloading equipment, I need y'all to help me with a couple of things. I've already decided that I want to go with hollow based wad cutters to get things started. I'm going to go with Winchester 231 for the powder. I know that I need small primers, but I also know that there are differences in primers, so I'm not sure what to get. I also need a good source for the bullets. I want to keep things simple at first, so I'm only going to load light loads for now, something in the 725-750 fps range. What suggestions do you have for primers and a good source for wadcutters? I will buy the powder and primers locally. Thanks!

[Nathan]

What caliber?

What bullet is that? Brand?

For what gun?


I'm guessing this is a 45 ACP or 45AR load for a revolver with bullets from a custom mold you had made? I'll bet my guess is wrong!

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Sorry about that. I forgot to say the caliber. It's 38spl.

[Jim Watson]

Primers: Small Pistol Standard. I prefer Federal for revolvers, but Winchester or CCI will work if you have not reduced your mainspring. I have not had as good results with Remington primers or imports.

Load: My usual .38 Special 148 gr wadcutter load is 3.2 grains Win 231.

I used to load Speer HBWC but Ed Harris says Remington is best... if you can find them.
I have read good reports on various cast, coated, even plated wadcutters.

[condor bravo]

Sounds like you might be shooting a S&W 52 -. For a cast bullet 148 gr DEWC coated can be obtained from SNS Casting, $38/500. The coating reduces smoking over standard lubed bullets.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Actually, the guns are an SP101 and an LCR. I should have given all that information in the first post.

[Nick_C_S]

You're on the right track.

As for the primers: It really matters little, unless you have race revolvers with very light trigger pulls. Some primers need more striking force to ignite than others. Generally, CCI are the hardest to ignite, and Federal's are the easiest. Opinions may very a little there. If your revolvers have factory triggers, then the whole subject of ease of ignition is moot. They'll all go off.

I have a revolver (Smith 67) with a mild trigger job and it'll ignite every primer, except for about 0.5% of the CCI its firing pin strikes. So I use Winchester primers for my 38 Special ammo (which is what I load the most of). Otherwise, everything else gets CCI's - because that's all I ever used since I started loading in 1984, and they have never let me down.

At any rate, given your application, I don't know that there's much need to give your primer selection a lot of thought. I'd recommend a major brand: CCI, Winchester, Federal, or Remington. Don't overthink it. And in your low-pressure application, you could even switch between brands without regard to a new load work up.

As for the wadcutters: In your velocity / pressure range, I'd recommend any national brand swaged bullet - Hornady, Speer, Remington, etc. They're all going to go nice n straight for ya.

Myself, I prefer a double-ended wadcutter (DEWC) profile. The lack of a hollow base make them a little more versatile. And I see no loss in accuracy whatsoever. But that's just personal preference.

Your choice of W231 is perfect, btw. Can't get a better propellant for your application. (Bullseye would get honorable mention here.)

Take your time.
Think, then act.
Check your work.
Check your work.
Check your work.
Load safe.
Have fun.
Report back to us. We want to know how you did.

[jetinteriorguy]

In my revo's I use Winchester or S&B. In my semi's I use pretty much anything. I've tried them all in my revo's and have had the best results with these two for 100% reliable ignition shooting DA, whereas CCI's do give me problems shooting DA, but work fine if shooting SA only.

[USSR]

Primers: Small Pistol Standard. I prefer Federal for revolvers, but Winchester or CCI will work if you have not reduced your mainspring. I have not had as good results with Remington primers or imports.

Load: My usual .38 Special 148 gr wadcutter load is 3.2 grains Win 231.

I used to load Speer HBWC but Ed Harris says Remington is best... if you can find them.

Yep. While I use a faster burn rate powder (Bullseye) than W231 for my wadcutter loads, that 3.2gr load will work fine. Unfortunately, the Remington HBWC's are gone. I got one of the last cases of them last month.

Don

[ammo.crafter]

Nick is dead on!

Make certain your lead bullets have the proper BHN for the velocity you are loading. Too hard or too soft lead will adversely affect your accuracy.

[F. Guffey]

It has nothing to do with what I prefer but there are times the small primer will not work . I have S&W 38 Special cases that use large primers.

F. Guffey

[Jim Watson]

I have one large pistol primed .38 case on the shelf as a novelty.
I don't know when they quit making them, but it has been a while.

[mikld]

Welcome to the wonderful, oft confusing and frustrating world of reloading!

IMO; 38 Special is a great cartridge to begin loading (I started in '69 with a Lee Loader in 38 Special). One thought, for primers just use whatever size and "power" your reloading manual specifies (standard, magnum, large pistol, small pistol). For now the manufacturer won't matter much. Also, to save time and headaches, find a load in your manual (powder, primer, and bullets) before you buy components...

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

[jamaica]

Small pistol primers. Whatever your local store stocks. Unique powder has been an old favorite for many years. Guess Unique has loaded every handgun caliber ever made?


SonOfScubaDiver did you ever get some reloaded? Let us know how it went.

[briandg]

not wanting to gunk up your plans, but the double ended wadcutter has almost completely replaced the hollow base for several reasons, and given your general appearance of "noob" questions, I'm just going to suggest that you start out with them. You don't sound as if you are a competitor that will require every last bit of accuracy. DEWC are much easier to come by, and I suspect a lot cheaper.

Load data should be slightly different, maybe 1/10 grain or so.

[condor bravo]

I mentioned DEWC coated bullets earlier in the thread but am recommending them again to compliment briandg's post above. One source is www.snscasting.com. First select coated bullets and then .38/.357

[Nathan]

I prefer CCI. Over 1000's rounds, I have fewer seating alignment/force issues with CCI. Before that, I was all Winchester in pistol.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

The reason I picked the HBWC isn't because of a preference over the DEWC. It was because I was impressed with how the HBWC performed in Lucky Gunner's tests of 38spl ammo. It performed almost exactly the same in a snubby as it did in the 4 inch barrel, 15.8 and 15.9 inches penetration. When I saw that, my first thought was that a wadcutter could be used for more than target shooting. It was the Winchester Super-X Match. I went to the site and found out what I could about the load, and was surprised at how light it is--700+ fps(can't remember the exact number). I don't have any plans on using anything other than factory ammo for SD, but I like that a reloaded wadcutter could be used for that purpose.

I'm hoping to visit at least two local gun shops this Saturday to see what they have in stock. I'm hoping to find the boolits, powder, and primers at one or the other. One doesn't show the 231 on their website, but they do carry HBWC. The other's site has so little information on what they have in stock that I wouldn't even bother going except for the fact that I've purchased two guns there and know they carry a lot of reloading equipment and supplies. If I can find what I'm looking for, I'd like to get my first batch reloaded Saturday evening to take to the range on Sunday. I can't wait!!

[David R]

I spent a LOT of time trying to get Button Nose wadcutters to shoot as well as Hollow Base. Could not be done. Close, but no cigar. I cast my own, and tried all the tricks. Sized bigger, smaller, more lube, less lube, faster slower.

In the end HBWC won out for pure group size. One hole groups @ 50 feet from a security six with a slab sided aftermarket barrel. I was using a red dot and resting on sand bags. I spent a whole winter trying this.

I don't shoot competition with a revolver any more, so I buy Button nose and Jack them up. (I don't cast any more) Max loads behind a Hi Tek (powder) coated 138 grain bullet is the best I feel I can get from my 38.

Just so you know, speeding up Hollow Base wadcutters blows the base off and accuracy goes south.

I started with a hammer and Lee loader. Now I have a Dillon. Its been a long journey. I cast my own for 20 years, both rifle and pistol.

The standard Bullseye load for HBWC is 2.7 grains Bullseye. I think its around 675 fps.

Enjoy, be safe.

David

[briandg]

David is right, that hollow base is a weak spot, just like it was for the skirted minie bullets. The skirt expands to fit the barrel and can cause a gas leak or other problems when leaving the crown. Accuracy that was inherent in the longer, weight forward design can be ruined when pressure is jacked up.

Keep in mind though that I'm not arguing against using them. they are probably better in terms of simple accuracy in most guns at standard loading. They can be effective as rounds fired into bad guys, but likely not as effective as a modern expanding bullet. The double ended round has been used today because skirted bullets are so difficult to cast by individuals and aren't simple to manufacture, either. the skirt can can hamper accuracy.

The idea that you might hear now and then that the bullet loaded backwards is a perfect defense load, however, is nonsense. the modern hollow point can't be improved on by firing a simple cylindrical thing that will randomly pop open on impact creating a random shape and size. It has no value regarding wound cavity or depth of penetration because it isn't remotely predictable.

Again, buy and load whichever you want to try, and use what gives you results that you like. I would spend more time deciding on a pizza than deciding on which bullet to choose between them, but since I already have data for the double based, I would use it.

[springer99]

Using Hi-tech coated DEWC is a great way to start and, at your desired velocity level, just about any small pistol primer should work well. I've found that .358 sized seems to work best for me and hardness greater than Bnl 12 shouldn't be needed.

FWIW, if you can find HP-38 powder instead of W-231, it's usually priced about $1-$1.50 cheaper per pound and the same thing.

[USSR]

Unfortunately, the Remington HBWC's are gone. I got one of the last cases of them last month.

Oops, spoke too soon. Midway has them back in stock, at least for now. They won't last long, so get 'em while you can.

Don

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...base-wadcutter

[Jim Watson]

The double ended wadcutter was designed for the convenience of commercial reloaders who like being able to fill a bullet feeder without having to get the right end up.

Ken Waters liked flatbase wadcutters because his Speers were a thou larger and filled the grooves without having to depend on a hollowbase expanding.

[44 AMP]

Congratulations, and welcome to the world of reloading!

You didn't say what kind of equipment you got, they're all good, some a bit friendlier than others. I hope its not a progressive press. You can start out on a progressive, but the learning curve is steeper, and I think beginners should begin at the beginning.

Since your primer and bullet choices have already been well spoken to, I'll speak to something else.

Powder charge in the case. Specifically, one, each.

Very small powder charges have a risk to them, the risk of putting more than one charge in a case, and not realizing it.

A double charge of even a light wadcutter load can wreck your gun, even Rugers!! Wreck as in blow up, burst cylinder, etc.

THINK about your powder charging process, and perform it carefully and with scrutiny. The usual advice is to place all your charged cases in the loading block, and under a good light, look carefully at the powder levels in all of them, looking for any that are higher or lower than the rest. Anything that is out of line with the rest gets dumped and recharged.

My personal method is to put the primed cases in the block, upside down (which shows they are both primed and empty.

Charge the case with powder, set it in the block right side up, and set (set, NOT seat) a bullet in the case mouth. (usually I set the bullet in upside down)
Repeat until you have finished the batch (or the block is full)

This method helps keep you from picking up a case with powder in it, thinking its empty.

I would caution you about the thought of using wadcutter loads for self defense. Penetration in gel tests is a very useful comparison tool for bullets shot into gel. It is not a good representation of what the load will do shot into other things (like people) that aren't made of gel. (like, for example, bones, among other things)

The flat front of a wadcutter is very effective at transferring energy, but wadcutter loads don't HAVE an excess of energy, so the energy shed by the flat point may actually keep the bullet from reaching a vital spot, even if it doesn't have to go through a bone.

Again, gel tests can be impressive, but can be quite different from real world performance.

Again, welcome to reloading, and ask anything, we all start out at the bottom of the learning curve.

[USSR]

Quote:
Unfortunately, the Remington HBWC's are gone. I got one of the last cases of them last month.

Oops, spoke too soon. Midway has them back in stock, at least for now. They won't last long, so get 'em while you can.

Don

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...base-wadcutter

And you guys thought I was kidding - Out of Stock, No Backorder. Lasted maybe 1 day.

Don