Primer Pocket Swager

[ninosdemente]

I have been looking to get a primer pocket swager.... I have seen the RCBS Bench Mounted Primer Pocket Swager, Frankford and a Sinclair. I came across this RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...swager-combo-2

I was leaning towards the bench mounted but after much long thought, I am considering the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2. For me at the moment, I see no purpose on spending $80 plus on the other swager tools if this will do just as good task as the others. Plus need to get some other items so that extra money will be handy. At the moment, brass needing work are .223 and 5.56. Don't have large primer pockets where brass needs to be worked on. But nice to have just in case.

On the description it does mention small swager rod only to use for .223. Would this work for the 5.56 as well as I have much more than .223?

Thank you in advanced.

[surveyor]

I have used the ch-4d press mounted swedge, the rcbs lever mounted one, and the Dillon one, as well as cutting the crimp with various methods.

A lot depends on volume, and your work flow.

Of the bench mounted models the Dillon one was more natural to me in hand movements over the rcbs.
I ended up using a military crimp remover, as I can do multiple operations consecutively with the brass in my hand on the motorized case prep station

[rg1]

Dillion Super Swage is most often recommended. I have the RCBS Bench Swager. It works fine. However I've had the RCBS Combo Swager for 30 plus years. It's swaged, and I mean thousands of, .223 and 30-06 cases in all those years. Only issue is I bent the rod of the .223 but I was able to straighten it. I size cases in one press and have the Combo Swager in a separate press. Size then swage in the RCBS Rockchucker. My method and not recommending this is to adjust the swager die and rod to bottom out in the primer pocket when the press handle is just past horizontal. I bang the press handle down with just enough force to swage the pocket. I don't use it where the press ram is all the way up for a positive stop. If I feel a particularly tight swage I bang the press handle one more time. Doesn't require much force. Follow the directions first but my method works for me. Even if you aren't satisfied you're only out less than $40. If not satisfied buy the Dillion swager. Note that your press ram needs to be 1 1/8" or less for the case stripper to fit.

[GWS]

You do know that 5.56 is the military version of .223 right? I have both tools you are asking about. The bench tool is more pleasant to use, but the older tool mounted on your press no less effective. The only negative to the much older press mounted tool is that it can be annoying on the upstroke to pull the swage button out of the primer cavity. It's not so bad on .223/5.56 but on 7.62/.308 is can be annoying to have to bang the case stripper cup against the press base to release it. The bench tool for some reason doesn't have that annoyance. Some people say to lube the button...I just hate to add something you have to remove before you prime.

A third and fourth choice would be one of the military reamers shown below: (especially handy if you have a Trim Mate), but also easy to use chucked in an electric drill. They are made to screw into a handle to use like a screwdriver....but that's tedious for a lot of brass.

RCBS on the left for $17 for each size, and Hornady on the right for $10 for each size. Sizes: small or large primer pockets of course. I personally prefer the RCBS reamer, because it's less likely to be used in a way as to waller out the pockets from inserting and drilling at an angle....its stop is at the case head, where the Hornady version stops in the bottom of the primer pocket.

BTW, I don't think there is a hill of beans difference between the Dillon or RCBS bench swagers.....they work the exact same way. I do personally prefer the little short side-moving handle on the Green one.....simply because I don't have to stroke the thing at the edge of the bench, then shift and move to do other operations. Mine's mounted "inland" such that from one spot seated, I can do all case prep on each case without moving my stool or changing position. I find that most efficient.

[ninosdemente]

surveyor, well I don't have brass in the 1,000's. At this point, just trying to get a cheap tool.

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rg1, I have seen the Dillon mentioned quite often online. Unfortunately, not willing to spend that kind of money when I don't have much brass (for me) as probably others that have by the quantities. I do remember a review from the site, someone mentioned they too bent the rod but were able to straighten the rod. I am using RCBS Rockchucker Supreme single stage press.

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GWS, haha... I know it was a (dumb) question, but just wanted to make sure. Thanks for stating the minor problem with the press mounted tool. The picture did not show up but are these the ones you are referring to:

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/25...-remover-small

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/25...er-cutter-head

I don't have a Trim Mate but do have a drill that I can use it with. The Hornady does catch my attention... due to the price and can be used on drill. Do these require much force and do they remove completely if used properly on a drill?

[ninosdemente]

GWS, saw your edited post and the pictures shows. Well you answered my concern about using the tools properly, which at least for me the RCBS seems like the better option based on the design it has...

[GWS]

The one factor I didn't mention was the brass hardness factor which effects springback. On a swager, any swager, the act of pushing the metal back away from the crimp can on some (especially older or harder brass) spring back some......and that makes setting primers well ..... iffy. Sometimes reaming is safer for that reason.....especially if you are using a progressive and don't want a mangled primer as you are cranking away at speed.

One more factor due to hard old LC brass, is that sometimes pushing the button in shears off the crimp instead of swaging it, and leaves a sliver of brass in the bottom of the pocket. It happened to me, loading a batch once with 7.62 LC dated 1967, and caused a closed bolt slam fire in my AR10 clone.....thought I had an auto for a wide eyed second. The sliver left in the pocket made the new primer proud enough to slam fire.....admittedly I should have caught the proud primer. and I did find one more in that batch of 50. The sliver ring is not easy to notice except for the proud primer. I check them all now, as I box em up.....as I shoulda done in the first place.

[Unclenick]

I will add that I think GWS's mention of the cutters is worth considering. It depends on what you are doing. I've owned the Dillon for nearly 30 years and for doing a large batch for a service rifle or 45 Auto, it's the only practical way to go. If I am prepping cases for precision rifle, though, I use the cutter. The reason is, when the swaging ram enters the primer pocket it pushes the crimp aside and usually a little additional brass to radius the edges of the primer pocket. That brass had to go somewhere. The result is a low crater berm around the pocket (a slightly raised area). That crater berm will flatten back out at first firing. Occasionally, that flattening flows enough brass back where it came from that you have to swage a case a second time, but that is infrequent. My concern with a precision rifle is causing irregular bolt face thrust angle. I haven't proven it is a serious issue, but just tend to assume consistency is best in all regards. Also, I don't prep high volumes of cases for precision ammunition.

If you get cutters now and save for a swager and ultimately get the Dillon, I recommend for 5.56 and 7.62 size case heads, you get and fit the plastic centering inserts from Inline Fabrication. With the as-is unit, every once in awhile I would ruin a case by starting the swaging with the case slightly misaligned, and the press has more than enough power to force a new primer pocket into a case head that isn't centered. I don't know how the RCBS unit compares in this regard.

What has been said about 5.56 is true. The crimps seem to be a lot less prominent on them than on 7.62, and occasionally I have primed decapped 5.56 without doing anything to the primer pocket. I simply noticed a case that had missed going through the swager was a little harder to seat the primer in than the others were. So there isn't a lot of either swaging or cutting needed with them.

[Don Fischer]

You want to spend the lesser amount? How long you been reloading? I started about 1968 and have never needed one of those thing's. If your gonna get something you might not even need in the first place, spend the extra money!

[ninosdemente]

Don Fischer, what I meant on wanting to buy the least expensive tool is I only have about 150 Winchester 5.56 brass and close to 300 LC Nato brass. I have not reloaded for 5.56 yet. Don't even have the dies for it yet either but have been collecting brass when I do buy factory ammo... which is not much as I don't shoot the AR15 much. I started reloading last year. Of course this is something I'm doing for the long haul....

[jpx2rk]

The least expensive route would be buying one cutter (RCBS or Hornady) and use it, see if you how it works/performs. Try the other one if you don't, and you're out $30. For the long haul, assuming (uh oh) you plan on shooting the AR15 much more in the future, and in turn processing 1x 5.56 brass, go ahead and get the swager now.

I've tried/got all 3. Reaming or cutting the crimp out gets old after about 25 cases. Swaging gets old after about 50 cases but is MUCH easier on the hands, and more time efficient.

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been using the RCBS press mounted swager for a couple years now and it works fine. Using the small swager on .223/5.56x45 I did experience the swaging rod sticking in the pocket and I would have to kind of smack the handle of the press with the palm of my hand from time to time to get the rod to come free. I did keep polishing the swaging button until it pretty much stopped sticking, and when it would occasionally stick it popped loose much easier. Now, all this being said, I hardly use it much any more, I just use my old RCBS deburring tool to remove any crimps. Just a couple of twists and done, easy peasy.

[Old 454]

Go to the hardware store and buy a small counter sink.. use in your drill.... works great at removing military crimps and is fast.

And you only spend about 7 bucks

[Bayou]

"Would this work for the 5.56 as well as I have much more than .223?"

Short answer is yes. I have that same RCBS press tool...

Bayou

[markr6754]

I thought that a pocket swage tool would be the way to go. I recently bought this one from Hornady, specifically for converted .223\5.56 cases. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/87...ngton-556x45mm
My first discovery was...don’t cut the cases for 300 AAC Blackout beforehand. The resulting case is too short to easily remove from the die once the primer pocket is swaged.
However, the bigger problem is that the swaging nipple or nub, whatever you care to call it, is too small. The result is the primer crimp isn’t fully removed. This makes subsequent priming operations challenging, if not hazardous. The primers go in hard. Worse, today, for the first time in perhaps 10,000 cases, I set off a primer. Scared me, scared my wife, and my ears are still ringing.

[Marco Califo]

Primer pockets do not "need" to be "swaged". Swaging primer pockets, consistently, is best done on big machinery designed to do so, before you buy it. (Buy processed brass)
If you have brass that was crimped, then you only need to remove the crimp, which is a stamped ring around the primer pocket. A $8 counter sync bit cuts it away quickly.
It can be put on a drill you already own. There is no need to run out and buy a $150+ press mounted swaging tool. It will be more economical to buy processed brass.

[ninosdemente]

jetinteriorguy, I saw a video using the RCBS deburr tool. It showed a "bevel" when using the deburring tool. Is that ok? I haven't tried it yet but will to see the result.

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markr6754, thanks for sharing your experience/results. wonder if other people have similar problems such as yourself. sure must have been scary.

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Old 454/Marco Califo, also saw a video using a counter sync bit out of curiosity.

[jetinteriorguy]

If you just give a couple twists, just enough to remove a little brass it's fine. Even a fairly good bevel has never bothered in my experience, it actually helps the primer feed in better. I think you would have to really go nuts with the tool to remove so much material to be harmful.

[Marco Califo]

Amazon.com.
Bosch
4.3 out of 5 stars 117 Reviews
Bosch CST1 1/2 In. Titanium-Coated Countersink
This will work as will others. Brass is a soft metal and cuts easily.

[GWS]

Originally Posted by ninosdemente

jetinteriorguy, I saw a video using the RCBS deburr tool. It showed a "bevel" when using the deburring tool. Is that ok? I haven't tried it yet but will to see the result.

Years ago RCBS's reamer was a little extreme in the bevel. They corrected that a long time ago. No one sells that model anymore. Now it is minimum. You can tell a swaged case from a non swaged case.....barely.

But you can tell from the small bright brass edge, if you look for it. And that's a good thing.....first, you can tell the brass is done (you only have to swage once you know) and second, the slight rounded edge lets primers find "home" easier and not catch an edge.....a very good thing especially when using a progressive.

I don't personally like the counter sink for this....there's no stops. Too easy to take too much or not enough. Too much and you ruined your primer pocket....too little and you mangle primers. I suppose if I had a few to do and no swager or reamer handy, made for the job, I might use one....carefully and slow. But that would be a last resort for me. Why, when you can push a cutter made for it to the stop in a second, and go on to the next 100, fast, safe, and clean. It's not like they are expensive.....

[Bart B.]

I have used a regular case mouth deburring tool on military 30 caliber cases. One twist per pocket. If the tip bottoms out too soon, grind it off several thousandths.

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

Primer pockets do not "need" to be "swaged". Swaging primer pockets, consistently, is best done on big machinery designed to do so, before you buy it. (Buy processed brass)
If you have brass that was crimped, then you only need to remove the crimp, which is a stamped ring around the primer pocket. A $8 counter sync bit cuts it away quickly.
It can be put on a drill you already own. There is no need to run out and buy a $150+ press mounted swaging tool. It will be more economical to buy processed brass.

Marco Califo - I’ve learned that I haven’t learned anything at this point. I’m certainly guilty of overthinking this. I read too many loading/shooting websites, and convince myself that they speak straight and true. For the money I’ve sunk into cutting, shaping, trimming, testing, swaging, and priming my “free” .300 Blackout brass (free being someone else’s abandoned .223/5.56 cases, I could’ve bought thousands of fully processed brass cases. Please don’t tell my wife!
Even worse, I had forgotten about 325 brand new Norma and Sig Sauer cases I bought before I’d even built my Blackout pistols. Not to mention the 290 cases from factory ammo I bought and shot...well, not all of it, yet.
Still...I’m having a heck of a lot of fun...even if I’ve over “invested”. These days I’m only working to afford my hobby...which means new AR builds just so I have a new cartridge to reload.

[ninosdemente]

jetinteriorguy, so I used my RCBS deburring tool and did get that bevel. Now as this was my first time doing this.... I don't know when to stop or if I taken too much. I did about 3 twists per case. Now as not knowing any better... I would twist until I didn't see the crimp which was about 3 twists for me. Is this over twisting?

[Average Joe]

I used them all, reamers, countersinks, and all types of home made ways to remove the crimp. I now use the RCBS primer pocket swager 2. Mounted on my press, it works great for 5.56 and .308. no more guesswork, ram it and it's done, and done correctly...the primers slide right in, with no more guesswork.

[ninosdemente]

I did a total of 160 with the RCBS deburring tool..... well it just was crazy. My hands were not happy when doing all that in one sitting for two days. My fingers holding the deburr tool felt like I was getting blisters... hahaha. Can't say I didn't try it though.