Any Ross rifle gurus around?

dakota.potts · July 3, 2019, 09:48 PM

So I've gotten into something of a dangerous habit of watching Gunbroker to find good deals on historical firearms... even more dangerous because I've been successful a number of times!

Anyways, one particular interest of mine has always been turn of the century firearms, especially those experimenting with early straight-pull and semi-automatic designs.

Enter the Ross rifle that I won on gunbroker for $318 bid:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818622514

Who can tell me anything about it? How did I do price wise? I'm more than happy with the price I won it at but I'm curious because there's not a huge sample size out there.

Here's what I think I know:
It's an early 2-lug, flush magazine model, making me think it's a Model 1905/Mk. 1
It's obviously sporterized but seems to be mostly original
Some of the original rear sight hardware is missing but the BSA receiver sight should do very well if it was mounted right (not super happy with the hole placement on the drill/tap job but that's pretty minor)

Now on to what I suspect:
Based on the worn roll marks and the immaculate bluing it appears to be a refinish.
The bolt sleeve and maybe the trigger appear to be color case hardened and the extractor a deep nitre blue?

So my thinking is that this was either some type of deluxe factory sporter, a very high quality re-arsenal/ commercial sporterizing job, or some gunsmith's personal project.

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated!

ernie8 · July 4, 2019, 04:53 PM

It is an ex military M-1905 mk II rifle that looks like it's had a quicky sporter job .

dakota.potts · July 4, 2019, 06:30 PM

Thanks for your input. How can you identify this as ex military and whether it was US or Canadian?

Also, any guesses as to the refinish?

Thanks

Jim Watson · July 4, 2019, 06:40 PM

Never heard of a US Ross.
I don't think they put cutoffs on sporters.

dakota.potts · July 4, 2019, 06:44 PM

The US did end up with some Ross Rifles around WWI but they were exclusively used for drill and maybe some guard purposes IIRC. I think the NY National Guard made a sizable order to the effect of 10,000 or so

Jim Watson · July 5, 2019, 05:13 PM

I can just see some poor doughboy handed a Springfield after drilling with the Ross.
DB "Grunt, groan, I can't pull the bolt back."
DI "You have to lift the handle on this one first."

10-96 · July 6, 2019, 01:26 AM

Does anyone know if the MkII can regurgitate it's bolt in the same manner as an unriveted and incorrectly assembled MkIII?

dakota.potts · July 6, 2019, 10:55 AM

10-96, to my knowledge the Mk. II with the two lug bolt head does not have that issue. Forgotten Weapons had a very useful video on the topic

T. O'Heir · July 6, 2019, 12:01 PM

There's a Ross forum here. https://www.milsurps.com/
As I recall, it was just the the Mk II that could send its bolt back into one's head if not put in correctly.
"...a quicky sporter job..." That's being polite.
"...after drilling with..." Drill is just walking around carrying a rifle. Which rifle it is makes not difference. Does actually need to be a rifle either. British Home Guard used broom sticks in 1939/40.

SIGSHR · July 6, 2019, 12:49 PM

There is-or was- a Ross Rifle Forum. Also Canadian Gun Nutz.
The Ross Mark III-I have one, hooray !-was the model issued to the CEF in 1914, IIRC that was the one where incorrect reinsertion of the bolt was dangerous.

dakota.potts · July 10, 2019, 08:42 PM

Well, I got the rifle home and there is nothing less confusing about it now. It was speculated as a military gun earlier but it also has a serial number on the receiver ring which I had read only commercial models had. Many of the small parts have two digit numbers stamped on them, none of which match exactly but which seem to be part of a numbering system (they range from 38 to 49 and several of them are consecutive numbers)

silvermane_1 · August 3, 2019, 03:10 AM

I not sure about Ross rifles, eh.

F. Guffey · August 27, 2019, 02:37 PM

I have a 1905 Ross, it is one of the most accurate rifles I have without a scope. I cut a brass rod and then ground the diameter just short of .300", after grinding the rod I stood the rifle up with the butt of the rifle on the floor; and then? I dropped the brass rod down the barrel, I do not know what it means but the bolt flew open when the rod hit the bolt face.

I have always thought Garand started with a Ross and finished with the M1.

F. Guffey

July 3, 2019, 09:48 PM	#1
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Any Ross rifle gurus around? So I've gotten into something of a dangerous habit of watching Gunbroker to find good deals on historical firearms... even more dangerous because I've been successful a number of times! Anyways, one particular interest of mine has always been turn of the century firearms, especially those experimenting with early straight-pull and semi-automatic designs. Enter the Ross rifle that I won on gunbroker for $318 bid: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818622514 Who can tell me anything about it? How did I do price wise? I'm more than happy with the price I won it at but I'm curious because there's not a huge sample size out there. Here's what I think I know: It's an early 2-lug, flush magazine model, making me think it's a Model 1905/Mk. 1 It's obviously sporterized but seems to be mostly original Some of the original rear sight hardware is missing but the BSA receiver sight should do very well if it was mounted right (not super happy with the hole placement on the drill/tap job but that's pretty minor) Now on to what I suspect: Based on the worn roll marks and the immaculate bluing it appears to be a refinish. The bolt sleeve and maybe the trigger appear to be color case hardened and the extractor a deep nitre blue? So my thinking is that this was either some type of deluxe factory sporter, a very high quality re-arsenal/ commercial sporterizing job, or some gunsmith's personal project. Any information on this would be greatly appreciated! __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

July 4, 2019, 06:30 PM	#3
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Thanks for your input. How can you identify this as ex military and whether it was US or Canadian? Also, any guesses as to the refinish? Thanks __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

July 4, 2019, 06:44 PM	#5
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	The US did end up with some Ross Rifles around WWI but they were exclusively used for drill and maybe some guard purposes IIRC. I think the NY National Guard made a sizable order to the effect of 10,000 or so __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

July 6, 2019, 01:26 AM	#7
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	Does anyone know if the MkII can regurgitate it's bolt in the same manner as an unriveted and incorrectly assembled MkIII? __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

July 6, 2019, 10:55 AM	#8
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	10-96, to my knowledge the Mk. II with the two lug bolt head does not have that issue. Forgotten Weapons had a very useful video on the topic __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

July 4, 2019, 04:53 PM	#2
ernie8 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2018 Posts: 217	It is an ex military M-1905 mk II rifle that looks like it's had a quicky sporter job .

July 4, 2019, 06:40 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Never heard of a US Ross. I don't think they put cutoffs on sporters.

July 5, 2019, 05:13 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I can just see some poor doughboy handed a Springfield after drilling with the Ross. DB "Grunt, groan, I can't pull the bolt back." DI "You have to lift the handle on this one first."

July 6, 2019, 12:01 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	There's a Ross forum here. https://www.milsurps.com/ As I recall, it was just the the Mk II that could send its bolt back into one's head if not put in correctly. "...a quicky sporter job..." That's being polite. "...after drilling with..." Drill is just walking around carrying a rifle. Which rifle it is makes not difference. Does actually need to be a rifle either. British Home Guard used broom sticks in 1939/40. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 6, 2019, 12:49 PM	#10
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	There is-or was- a Ross Rifle Forum. Also Canadian Gun Nutz. The Ross Mark III-I have one, hooray !-was the model issued to the CEF in 1914, IIRC that was the one where incorrect reinsertion of the bolt was dangerous.

July 10, 2019, 08:42 PM	#11
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Well, I got the rifle home and there is nothing less confusing about it now. It was speculated as a military gun earlier but it also has a serial number on the receiver ring which I had read only commercial models had. Many of the small parts have two digit numbers stamped on them, none of which match exactly but which seem to be part of a numbering system (they range from 38 to 49 and several of them are consecutive numbers) __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

August 3, 2019, 03:10 AM	#12
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	I not sure about Ross rifles, eh. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

August 27, 2019, 02:37 PM	#13
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have a 1905 Ross, it is one of the most accurate rifles I have without a scope. I cut a brass rod and then ground the diameter just short of .300", after grinding the rod I stood the rifle up with the butt of the rifle on the floor; and then? I dropped the brass rod down the barrel, I do not know what it means but the bolt flew open when the rod hit the bolt face. I have always thought Garand started with a Ross and finished with the M1. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; August 27, 2019 at 05:23 PM. Reason: add to Grand to make it Garand