Looking for a 9mm PCC

GamestopDorito · July 22, 2019, 10:14 AM

I am pretty open to suggestions on this one.

A year or so back I bought a Vector PCC and it's the one firearm purchase I regret. It's an OK gun, but I bought the full carbine like a dummy instead of a braced pistol and it is just huge and I never liked the charging handle on the thing. I want to get rid of it and replace it with another 9mm PCC.

Right now my two favorites are the MPX, which has a great reputation and looks great, but has proprietary mags and a high pricetag and the Angstadt UDP9 which isn't quite as handsome, but uses Glock mags I already have and costs a little over half as much as an MPX.

I know there are even cheaper 9mm PCCs to be had. Glock mags would be a plus since I bought four 33-rounders for the Vector and would like to keep using them.

Any suggestions? Recommendations? Good or bad experience with the UDP9 or MPX?

TrueBlue711 · July 22, 2019, 02:00 PM

Sorry to hear about the Vector. I was really eying that for my first PCC (the pistol braced version). Excluding the Vector, MPX would be top of my list too. That thing looks awesome. A close second, and more cost effective, is the CZ Scorpion.
If you like using Glock mags, there are AR-9s (which is something you're already looking at with the Angstadt UDP9). CMMG makes the Banshee and other close variants. I've heard mixed reviews on CMMG though. They're not the only ones who make AR-9s. PSA has them for around $500.

Bill DeShivs · July 22, 2019, 02:46 PM

The Keltec Sub 2000 is a great little gun.

zincwarrior · July 22, 2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamestopDorito

I am pretty open to suggestions on this one.

A year or so back I bought a Vector PCC and it's the one firearm purchase I regret. It's an OK gun, but I bought the full carbine like a dummy instead of a braced pistol and it is just huge and I never liked the charging handle on the thing. I want to get rid of it and replace it with another 9mm PCC.

Right now my two favorites are the MPX, which has a great reputation and looks great, but has proprietary mags and a high pricetag and the Angstadt UDP9 which isn't quite as handsome, but uses Glock mags I already have and costs a little over half as much as an MPX.

I know there are even cheaper 9mm PCCs to be had. Glock mags would be a plus since I bought four 33-rounders for the Vector and would like to keep using them.

Any suggestions? Recommendations? Good or bad experience with the UDP9 or MPX?

What is the purposes? Plinking, hunting, competition, self defense, car emergency?

weblance · July 22, 2019, 04:58 PM

I have three PCC in 9mm, a CMMG MK9(Colt Pattern), a Just Right Carbine(Glock mag) and a Kel-Tec Sub2000(M&P mag).

I bought a PSA 9mm lower(Glock mag) and a Hybrid bolt so I could try the Glock style lower, with the CMMG Colt upper.

I have decided that the AR-15 style PCC and the newer Just Right Carbine with the Quick Takedown feature are the way to go. PCCs run dirty, and it needs to be easy to take apart. My Just Right Carbine was the older style before the Quick Takedown feature was available. I added the Quick Takedown kit from them($80) and it makes all the difference in the world

The Sub2000, while unique, and light, just doesn't have a solid, quality feel to it, but in its defense, it has run perfectly for around a thousand rounds now.

They all had bad triggers, and the AR Style, and the Just Right Carbine use standard AR trigger components, so upgrading the triggers is easy. The Sub2000 has a trigger kit available from MCARBO, but I haven't done the trigger on it.

I would go with a quality AR Style, or a Just Right Carbine that has the Quick Takedown feature(all the newest ones do now).

GamestopDorito · July 22, 2019, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zincwarrior

What is the purposes? Plinking, hunting, competition, self defense, car emergency?

I originally bought the Vector for home defense and plinking, but it was just too big and unwieldy for defense. I've been using my 556 AR pistol for that instead, but would like to give that role back to this PCC. So plinking and home defense.

chris in va · July 22, 2019, 10:58 PM

I've thoroughly enjoyed my CX4 in 9mm. Takes readily available 92fs mags and just keeps trucking along. Everyone wants to try it at the range.

zeke · July 23, 2019, 05:52 AM

Might also consider cmmg banshee. Have the 45 acp version and it is much simplier/easier than the mpx owned

zincwarrior · July 23, 2019, 07:35 AM

*Just Right Carbine
*Ruger Carbine
*9MM conversion for your AR.

All three are inexpensive options. Another poster above noted the CX$. It is a bit more expensive, but it is materially shorter with the mag in the pistol grip like an old style sub machine gun. I would consider exploring that one. Note the trigger is a bit stiff and might require a trigger job from Sierra.

TrueBlue711 · July 23, 2019, 09:53 AM

Quote:

I have three PCC in 9mm, a CMMG MK9(Colt Pattern), a Just Right Carbine(Glock mag) and a Kel-Tec Sub2000(M&P mag).

I bought a PSA 9mm lower(Glock mag) and a Hybrid bolt so I could try the Glock style lower, with the CMMG Colt upper.

How does recoil for the CMMG compare to the rest? They are radial delayed rollback right? I want to know if the extra price is really worth that feature.

GamestopDorito · July 23, 2019, 11:41 AM

A lot of you are saying really positive things about CMMG. It's pretty persuasive. Something like this Banshee using the glock mags is only a couple hundred more than the UDP9 and it looks quite a bit nicer.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...s_id/415006874

Fishbed77 · July 23, 2019, 01:40 PM

I've had a good bit of experience with the Ruger PC Carbine, 9mm ARs (a few brands, but mostly PSA), Kel-Tec SUB2000, and the CZ Scorpion EVO S3 (in braced pistol configuration).

Of those, the Scorpion is far and away my favorite. Despite some ergonomic issues with the safety levers (that are pretty easily addressed), it is extremely reliable and robust, and is certainly the only one I'd consider for self-defense use. It's also quite fun to shoot with very soft recoil for a blowback carbine, and is well-supported by the aftermarket. Mags are reliable and cheap. With a Gearhead Works Tailhook brace on the CZ folder, you are giving up practically nothing to an SBR.

The Ruger PC Carbine is pretty neat if you want that form factor. Glock mags are a plus, but the very far-forward rear aperture is kind of weird. The take-down feature is nice, but a pistol with a folding brace will be more compact.

The SUB2000 is neat, and I understand folks report good reliability out of them, but it feels a bit flimsy and doesn't instill much confidence. I still see where it might serve a role.

Quote:

I bought a PSA 9mm lower(Glock mag) and a Hybrid bolt so I could try the Glock style lower, with the CMMG Colt upper.

Honestly, I am pretty meh about most 9mm ARs.

Recoil for most feels no softer than 5.56mm due to the large blowback bolt moving in the buffer tube, and reliability has been a mixed bag for me. The geometry of how the bolt must feed rounds from the magazine to the chamber is not optimal. I own a PSA with the Glock magazine lower (the last-round bolt hold-open version that they don't seem to sell anymore) and it took a trip back to PSA to operate reliably. Even now, the LRBHO operation is hit or miss.

ttarp · July 23, 2019, 07:51 PM

I'd suggest an MP5 type by either PTR or Zenith, unless you can't stomach the price, they ought to be a serious consideration.

precision_shooter · July 26, 2019, 10:53 AM

Extar EP9 pistol?
I will be getting the Extar EP10, if it ever gets released...

For 9mm, I chose the CZ Scorpion Evo. For a few $ I bought a trigger spring kit o lower the trigger pull weight (took about 10 mins to do myself). Mags are cheap and plentiful, and it has good ergos.

ROCK6 · July 26, 2019, 01:08 PM

First, I would strongly consider the smaller pistol versions with a brace. They are much more compact and handy than a 16" bbl version. I currently have an older Kel-Tech SUB2K and JRC. They just collect dust with the MPX-K, CZ Scorpion Micro, B&T GHM9, and an ATI AR15 pistol that takes Glock magazines.

The MPX is by far the fastest to operate and softest shooter. Mags are expensive, but the most robust. Even though I upgraded with a Timney trigger, the GHM9 is by far the most accurate. The CZ is a blast and the cheaper of the three with a ton of after market options and the cheapest magazines. The ATI is a cheaper make, but it's been absolutely flawless. While I don't prefer Glock mags for such a PCC, they work. With that in mind, take a hard look at CMMG's Banshee. Their radial bolt design is exceptional and rivals the HK roller lock. Not to mention the most accessories are available.

I see these smaller braced pistols more as PDW's than PCC, and they are a much better option for HD.

ROCK6

jetinteriorguy · July 28, 2019, 01:09 PM

I only have experience with one, that's the JustRight Carbine. I've never needed to look any further, it's built like a tank, reliable, can be had or converted to many iterations, modular, accurate, and just plain fun to shoot.

ROCK6 · July 29, 2019, 05:17 AM

My recommendations belong in the "semi-auto" pistols section, but they often get lumped into the PCC discussion:

The weight of a PCC is always my biggest issue. I think the 30 Carbine is ideal as a HD PCC (although not technically a pistol caliber); light weight and easy handling. The 16" lever guns are another that I prefer. However, the compactness of the pistols with braces can't be beat and are far more capable than many realize. I don't expect effective range beyond a 150 yards, but inside that, they are adequate. More importantly, they run just like any compact SMG/SBR on drills (minus the full auto of course). It's a viable HD choice that allows you to carry more capacity than most handguns, a solid platform for a weapon mounted light. They are far more accurate and faster at longer distances than with a handgun and allow extremely fast follow up shots or multiple target engagements, but far more compact-capable for maneuvering tight spaces vice a 16" carbine.

I still like regular PCCs, but the pistol versions are quickly taking over...

ROCK6

TrueBlue711 · July 29, 2019, 09:06 AM

I'm seeing a lot about the "K" versions of the PCCs, which usually tout about a 3" barrel. I'm wondering if that's going too small. I feel like at that point, why even bother and just use a normal pistol with a "pistol brace adapter" like the CAA Roni/Micro Roni. If I get a PCC, I want it to be small...but not 3" barrel small.

GamestopDorito · July 29, 2019, 11:54 AM

I started the thread as a PCC discussion only because that's what I own and am replacing. A braced pistol is definitely my preference for a solution. ROCK6, do you own all of those? That is quite a collection! Do you have a favorite? What about a favorite optic?

My reason for going with a PCC/braced pistol for home defense is that I just don't trust my FN509 or FNX-45 in a home defense scenario. Because of me, not the guns. I am a mediocre shot with a pistol. First shot, fine, but unless I really take my time the follow ups are inaccurate. I can shoot great groups with a braced pistol and in the heat of a home invasion scenario, where I need to put my shots exactly where I want them and not send them through walls into my neighbors or my kids, having that extra stability and control is exactly what I need.

cannonfire · July 29, 2019, 12:35 PM

Quote:

I'd suggest an MP5 type by either PTR or Zenith, unless you can't stomach the price, they ought to be a serious consideration.

I have a HK SP5k and a CZ Scorpion. For coolness factor, hands down the HK. But for price, mags, and ergos, Scorpion would be my choice. In today's world of firearms, I think a bolt hold open on last round is a must, especially for a HD weapon and that is one thing I hate about the SP5k.

Scorpion has a cheaper after market available to customize it how you would like and is much lighter. Plus it still has the same charging handle so you can still slap the bolt home like youre an 80s action hero.

The price differences are ridiculous too. I paid OTD like $2300 for the HK (I think Zeniths are around the $1500 mark) and like $690 for NIB Scorpion (blue label; but they are still only like $800). The only reason I got the HK was because when I first got into guns, I told myself that if I ever found a semi-auto MP5 made by HK, I would buy it. That and I had a brand new rewards CC with $0 balance at the time, so the stars were aligned.

GamestopDorito · November 5, 2019, 09:02 PM

Hey, so thank you for all the advice everyone. It was very good. Don't know if anyone wanted followup, but I settled on the Banshee.

Then changed my mind and threw it all out, including the Glock mags which I sold with the Vector, and bought a Stribog with an SB tactical brace. It was cheaper to buy that little guy and the brace and three extra mags and a fan port compensator than to buy a Banshee.

This isn't my weapon, but it looks like this with one of these on the barrel: https://hbindustries.net/store/shop/...-type=1%2F2-28

I mounted a Sightmark Ultra on this because I like the high profile with the low brace and the boxy design matched the fit of the Stribog: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078G9TL1D/

Will get some photos of mine soon.

MTT TL · November 6, 2019, 10:03 AM

I'm still in love with my Extar9. It checks all the boxes an is under $500 with 3x33 magazines.

TrueBlue711 · November 6, 2019, 12:22 PM

How do you like the Stribog? I'm strongly looking at that one too. I'm a huge fan of my SCAR 17 and the Stribog looks very SCAR-like design/function. Is yours with or without the reciprocating charging handle?

GamestopDorito · November 6, 2019, 01:43 PM

It's without. That wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but I'd rather not get a bruised thumb and I think it's far likelier on a little gun like this than a SCAR. I'm a SCAR-17 fan myself and I'll admit that resemblance part of the attraction for me too. It's like a SCAR and an UMP had a baby.

The Stribog is just unbelievable good value for money. At under $700 it is cheaper than almost everything, heavy in a good way, compact, with good rail space and it's just a solid, simple, quality build you can feel when you strip it and clean it or are using it. It has a lot of recoil, but I knew that going in and it's nothing you can't manage, just a surprise for a 9mm PCC. Only have about 500 rounds through mine, so can't speak to reliability, but I'll be amazed if it's not reliable with how well made it seems.

My advice: get one before they double in price. It's going to become wildly popular.

July 22, 2019, 10:14 AM	#1
GamestopDorito Member Join Date: July 19, 2018 Location: USA Posts: 50	Looking for a 9mm PCC I am pretty open to suggestions on this one. A year or so back I bought a Vector PCC and it's the one firearm purchase I regret. It's an OK gun, but I bought the full carbine like a dummy instead of a braced pistol and it is just huge and I never liked the charging handle on the thing. I want to get rid of it and replace it with another 9mm PCC. Right now my two favorites are the MPX, which has a great reputation and looks great, but has proprietary mags and a high pricetag and the Angstadt UDP9 which isn't quite as handsome, but uses Glock mags I already have and costs a little over half as much as an MPX. I know there are even cheaper 9mm PCCs to be had. Glock mags would be a plus since I bought four 33-rounders for the Vector and would like to keep using them. Any suggestions? Recommendations? Good or bad experience with the UDP9 or MPX?

July 22, 2019, 02:46 PM	#3
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	The Keltec Sub 2000 is a great little gun. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 26, 2019, 10:53 AM	#14
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Extar EP9 pistol? I will be getting the Extar EP10, if it ever gets released... For 9mm, I chose the CZ Scorpion Evo. For a few $ I bought a trigger spring kit o lower the trigger pull weight (took about 10 mins to do myself). Mags are cheap and plentiful, and it has good ergos. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

November 6, 2019, 10:03 AM	#22
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	I'm still in love with my Extar9. It checks all the boxes an is under $500 with 3x33 magazines. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

July 22, 2019, 02:00 PM	#2
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	Sorry to hear about the Vector. I was really eying that for my first PCC (the pistol braced version). Excluding the Vector, MPX would be top of my list too. That thing looks awesome. A close second, and more cost effective, is the CZ Scorpion. If you like using Glock mags, there are AR-9s (which is something you're already looking at with the Angstadt UDP9). CMMG makes the Banshee and other close variants. I've heard mixed reviews on CMMG though. They're not the only ones who make AR-9s. PSA has them for around $500.

July 22, 2019, 04:58 PM	#5
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	I have three PCC in 9mm, a CMMG MK9(Colt Pattern), a Just Right Carbine(Glock mag) and a Kel-Tec Sub2000(M&P mag). I bought a PSA 9mm lower(Glock mag) and a Hybrid bolt so I could try the Glock style lower, with the CMMG Colt upper. I have decided that the AR-15 style PCC and the newer Just Right Carbine with the Quick Takedown feature are the way to go. PCCs run dirty, and it needs to be easy to take apart. My Just Right Carbine was the older style before the Quick Takedown feature was available. I added the Quick Takedown kit from them($80) and it makes all the difference in the world The Sub2000, while unique, and light, just doesn't have a solid, quality feel to it, but in its defense, it has run perfectly for around a thousand rounds now. They all had bad triggers, and the AR Style, and the Just Right Carbine use standard AR trigger components, so upgrading the triggers is easy. The Sub2000 has a trigger kit available from MCARBO, but I haven't done the trigger on it. I would go with a quality AR Style, or a Just Right Carbine that has the Quick Takedown feature(all the newest ones do now).

July 22, 2019, 10:58 PM	#7
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I've thoroughly enjoyed my CX4 in 9mm. Takes readily available 92fs mags and just keeps trucking along. Everyone wants to try it at the range.

July 23, 2019, 05:52 AM	#8
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Might also consider cmmg banshee. Have the 45 acp version and it is much simplier/easier than the mpx owned

July 23, 2019, 07:35 AM	#9
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Just Right Carbine Ruger Carbine *9MM conversion for your AR. All three are inexpensive options. Another poster above noted the CX$. It is a bit more expensive, but it is materially shorter with the mag in the pistol grip like an old style sub machine gun. I would consider exploring that one. Note the trigger is a bit stiff and might require a trigger job from Sierra.

July 23, 2019, 11:41 AM	#11
GamestopDorito Member Join Date: July 19, 2018 Location: USA Posts: 50	A lot of you are saying really positive things about CMMG. It's pretty persuasive. Something like this Banshee using the glock mags is only a couple hundred more than the UDP9 and it looks quite a bit nicer. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...s_id/415006874

July 23, 2019, 07:51 PM	#13
ttarp Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 888	I'd suggest an MP5 type by either PTR or Zenith, unless you can't stomach the price, they ought to be a serious consideration.

July 26, 2019, 01:08 PM	#15
ROCK6 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Georgia/Afghanistan Posts: 314	First, I would strongly consider the smaller pistol versions with a brace. They are much more compact and handy than a 16" bbl version. I currently have an older Kel-Tech SUB2K and JRC. They just collect dust with the MPX-K, CZ Scorpion Micro, B&T GHM9, and an ATI AR15 pistol that takes Glock magazines. The MPX is by far the fastest to operate and softest shooter. Mags are expensive, but the most robust. Even though I upgraded with a Timney trigger, the GHM9 is by far the most accurate. The CZ is a blast and the cheaper of the three with a ton of after market options and the cheapest magazines. The ATI is a cheaper make, but it's been absolutely flawless. While I don't prefer Glock mags for such a PCC, they work. With that in mind, take a hard look at CMMG's Banshee. Their radial bolt design is exceptional and rivals the HK roller lock. Not to mention the most accessories are available. I see these smaller braced pistols more as PDW's than PCC, and they are a much better option for HD. ROCK6

July 28, 2019, 01:09 PM	#16
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	I only have experience with one, that's the JustRight Carbine. I've never needed to look any further, it's built like a tank, reliable, can be had or converted to many iterations, modular, accurate, and just plain fun to shoot.

July 29, 2019, 05:17 AM	#17
ROCK6 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Georgia/Afghanistan Posts: 314	My recommendations belong in the "semi-auto" pistols section, but they often get lumped into the PCC discussion: The weight of a PCC is always my biggest issue. I think the 30 Carbine is ideal as a HD PCC (although not technically a pistol caliber); light weight and easy handling. The 16" lever guns are another that I prefer. However, the compactness of the pistols with braces can't be beat and are far more capable than many realize. I don't expect effective range beyond a 150 yards, but inside that, they are adequate. More importantly, they run just like any compact SMG/SBR on drills (minus the full auto of course). It's a viable HD choice that allows you to carry more capacity than most handguns, a solid platform for a weapon mounted light. They are far more accurate and faster at longer distances than with a handgun and allow extremely fast follow up shots or multiple target engagements, but far more compact-capable for maneuvering tight spaces vice a 16" carbine. I still like regular PCCs, but the pistol versions are quickly taking over... ROCK6

July 29, 2019, 09:06 AM	#18
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	I'm seeing a lot about the "K" versions of the PCCs, which usually tout about a 3" barrel. I'm wondering if that's going too small. I feel like at that point, why even bother and just use a normal pistol with a "pistol brace adapter" like the CAA Roni/Micro Roni. If I get a PCC, I want it to be small...but not 3" barrel small.

July 29, 2019, 11:54 AM	#19
GamestopDorito Member Join Date: July 19, 2018 Location: USA Posts: 50	I started the thread as a PCC discussion only because that's what I own and am replacing. A braced pistol is definitely my preference for a solution. ROCK6, do you own all of those? That is quite a collection! Do you have a favorite? What about a favorite optic? My reason for going with a PCC/braced pistol for home defense is that I just don't trust my FN509 or FNX-45 in a home defense scenario. Because of me, not the guns. I am a mediocre shot with a pistol. First shot, fine, but unless I really take my time the follow ups are inaccurate. I can shoot great groups with a braced pistol and in the heat of a home invasion scenario, where I need to put my shots exactly where I want them and not send them through walls into my neighbors or my kids, having that extra stability and control is exactly what I need.

November 5, 2019, 09:02 PM	#21
GamestopDorito Member Join Date: July 19, 2018 Location: USA Posts: 50	Hey, so thank you for all the advice everyone. It was very good. Don't know if anyone wanted followup, but I settled on the Banshee. Then changed my mind and threw it all out, including the Glock mags which I sold with the Vector, and bought a Stribog with an SB tactical brace. It was cheaper to buy that little guy and the brace and three extra mags and a fan port compensator than to buy a Banshee. This isn't my weapon, but it looks like this with one of these on the barrel: https://hbindustries.net/store/shop/...-type=1%2F2-28 I mounted a Sightmark Ultra on this because I like the high profile with the low brace and the boxy design matched the fit of the Stribog: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078G9TL1D/ Will get some photos of mine soon.

November 6, 2019, 12:22 PM	#23
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	How do you like the Stribog? I'm strongly looking at that one too. I'm a huge fan of my SCAR 17 and the Stribog looks very SCAR-like design/function. Is yours with or without the reciprocating charging handle?

November 6, 2019, 01:43 PM	#24
GamestopDorito Member Join Date: July 19, 2018 Location: USA Posts: 50	It's without. That wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but I'd rather not get a bruised thumb and I think it's far likelier on a little gun like this than a SCAR. I'm a SCAR-17 fan myself and I'll admit that resemblance part of the attraction for me too. It's like a SCAR and an UMP had a baby. The Stribog is just unbelievable good value for money. At under $700 it is cheaper than almost everything, heavy in a good way, compact, with good rail space and it's just a solid, simple, quality build you can feel when you strip it and clean it or are using it. It has a lot of recoil, but I knew that going in and it's nothing you can't manage, just a surprise for a 9mm PCC. Only have about 500 rounds through mine, so can't speak to reliability, but I'll be amazed if it's not reliable with how well made it seems. My advice: get one before they double in price. It's going to become wildly popular.