P38 Dilema

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2014, 03:23 PM

Actually is a P1 from July 1958.

Bought the thing online (Gunbroker) and put about fifty rounds through it when it quit cycling.

Found that the extractor, extractor plunger and plunger spring were completely gone.

Figure the odds of finding such tiny parts in four inch grass.

Bought the parts online only to find that the plunger spring and plunger were WAY too short. too short for the tip to extend past the rim of the hole that it is intended to fit into. No way would it bear on the extractor.

Called up the vendor and got into a long and interesting discussion about how some P38 (1)s are fitted with a second plunger at the bottom of the spring. I never thought to ask him to send me the right parts.

It got to be a challenge so I made a longer plunger and a bottom plunger for the pistol. Just so happens that welding rod is the perfect diameter.

Reassembled the pistol. Extractor tension appears good. Cycled three rounds without a hiccup.

I probly should buy spares (of the proper design) but for now, I am going to see how long the welding rod lasts.

I'll post some photos a little later.

SIGSHR · November 18, 2014, 03:37 PM

I am no expert on the P-38/P-1 ( I have only 1). I wonder if the cross bolt in the frame of the P-1 has something to do with it. I was going to buy a 22 conversion unit for my 1943 Walther when the vendor informed they don't fit on the steel frames because they are designed for the crossbolt.

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2014, 04:04 PM

I am no expert either.

I never had one apart until I bought this one.

I discussed making the plunger for it with the Gunsmith at Sarco (Vendor who sold me the parts.) He did not seem to imply any special hardening requirements.

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2014, 05:00 PM

These are the plungers I made along with the extractor and spring.

Started out with a welding rod.

Cut a taper on the end

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2014, 05:02 PM

This is hard to see but there is a notch on the tip to make it easier to get the plungers shoved back into the socket to get the extractor free. Just notched it wif a file.

And then cut the shank to fit into the spring.

Fun project. I hope it lasts.

SIGSHR · November 18, 2014, 07:25 PM

Good Old Sarco. Got my 1943 Walther cheap because the safety was "broken"
-the firing pin was broken. Hied myself to Sarco, got a replacement firing pin-they asked it if was wartime or postwar. A half hour or so of work in their lunchroom got it working fine.

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2014, 08:27 PM

...for not offering to send the right parts.

By the time I got to talk to the gunsmith, the idea of buying or selling parts was way on the back burner.

I suppose he might have been expected to assume that the parts were wrong and that the parts were purchased from Sarco.

He offered to fix the pistol for the cost of parts plus shipping.

I told him I wanted to take a stab at it.

I'll prolly deal with them again.

Dixie Gunsmithing · November 18, 2014, 10:28 PM

Plungers don't really need hardening. If it had been the extractor itself, then it would have needed to be quenched and tempered, since it is a high wear item.

James K · November 18, 2014, 11:13 PM

There are two plungers, with the spring between them. The front one tensions the extractor, the rear one is a detent plunger for the safety. It is possible that gun had no rear plunger when you got it and without the proper tension the extractor would be loose and could be lost, or that both plungers and the spring were lost. Either way, it sounds like the problem is solved.

(FWIW, installation involves installing the safety, then the rear plunger, then the spring and front plunger. The extractor is then used to push the front plunger in until the extractor will hook into the slide and the front plunger snap in place to hold it.)

Jim

Doc Hoy · November 19, 2014, 05:41 AM

Yes, putting it back together is relatively simple.

Taking it apart is a little harder because of having to push the plunger back past the extractor if the dust cover is not removed.

A video on the net shows the removal process pretty well. The guy in the video has the dust cover off. He presses against the base of the extractor and pops the extractor out while being careful not to allow the plunger and spring to fly across the room.

November 18, 2014, 03:23 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	P38 Dilema Actually is a P1 from July 1958. Bought the thing online (Gunbroker) and put about fifty rounds through it when it quit cycling. Found that the extractor, extractor plunger and plunger spring were completely gone. Figure the odds of finding such tiny parts in four inch grass. Bought the parts online only to find that the plunger spring and plunger were WAY too short. too short for the tip to extend past the rim of the hole that it is intended to fit into. No way would it bear on the extractor. Called up the vendor and got into a long and interesting discussion about how some P38 (1)s are fitted with a second plunger at the bottom of the spring. I never thought to ask him to send me the right parts. It got to be a challenge so I made a longer plunger and a bottom plunger for the pistol. Just so happens that welding rod is the perfect diameter. Reassembled the pistol. Extractor tension appears good. Cycled three rounds without a hiccup. I probly should buy spares (of the proper design) but for now, I am going to see how long the welding rod lasts. I'll post some photos a little later. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 18, 2014, 04:04 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Hmmm Could be. I am no expert either. I never had one apart until I bought this one. I discussed making the plunger for it with the Gunsmith at Sarco (Vendor who sold me the parts.) He did not seem to imply any special hardening requirements. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 18, 2014, 05:00 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Here are some photos These are the plungers I made along with the extractor and spring. Started out with a welding rod. Cut a taper on the end __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 18, 2014, 05:02 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Last two photos This is hard to see but there is a notch on the tip to make it easier to get the plungers shoved back into the socket to get the extractor free. Just notched it wif a file. And then cut the shank to fit into the spring. Fun project. I hope it lasts. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 18, 2014, 08:27 PM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I don't fault them.... ...for not offering to send the right parts. By the time I got to talk to the gunsmith, the idea of buying or selling parts was way on the back burner. I suppose he might have been expected to assume that the parts were wrong and that the parts were purchased from Sarco. He offered to fix the pistol for the cost of parts plus shipping. I told him I wanted to take a stab at it. I'll prolly deal with them again. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 18, 2014, 03:37 PM	#2
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I am no expert on the P-38/P-1 ( I have only 1). I wonder if the cross bolt in the frame of the P-1 has something to do with it. I was going to buy a 22 conversion unit for my 1943 Walther when the vendor informed they don't fit on the steel frames because they are designed for the crossbolt.

November 18, 2014, 07:25 PM	#6
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Good Old Sarco. Got my 1943 Walther cheap because the safety was "broken" -the firing pin was broken. Hied myself to Sarco, got a replacement firing pin-they asked it if was wartime or postwar. A half hour or so of work in their lunchroom got it working fine.

November 18, 2014, 10:28 PM	#8
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Plungers don't really need hardening. If it had been the extractor itself, then it would have needed to be quenched and tempered, since it is a high wear item.

November 18, 2014, 11:13 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There are two plungers, with the spring between them. The front one tensions the extractor, the rear one is a detent plunger for the safety. It is possible that gun had no rear plunger when you got it and without the proper tension the extractor would be loose and could be lost, or that both plungers and the spring were lost. Either way, it sounds like the problem is solved. (FWIW, installation involves installing the safety, then the rear plunger, then the spring and front plunger. The extractor is then used to push the front plunger in until the extractor will hook into the slide and the front plunger snap in place to hold it.) Jim

November 19, 2014, 05:41 AM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Good info... Yes, putting it back together is relatively simple. Taking it apart is a little harder because of having to push the plunger back past the extractor if the dust cover is not removed. A video on the net shows the removal process pretty well. The guy in the video has the dust cover off. He presses against the base of the extractor and pops the extractor out while being careful not to allow the plunger and spring to fly across the room. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.