Vintage SxS - black nitride?

treg · September 28, 2019, 08:39 PM

I recently inherited a Winchester Model 24 in 12 gauge. It's in good shape, but I'd like to upgrade it with a black nitride treatment (among a couple other things).

Is the nitride treatment process (<600 deg F) too hot for the barrel assembly?

FITASC · September 28, 2019, 09:07 PM

Seriously? What's wrong with the bluing it came with?

Scorch · September 29, 2019, 12:29 AM

Solder will melt waaaaay before 600 degrees, so unless you want to learn how to solder barrels together I would just rust blue them.

eastbank · September 29, 2019, 03:38 AM

if you do those things the value will take a nose dive, and if you get the barrels up to 600 degrees you may have two single barrels. not a good idea, but its yours.

darkgael · September 29, 2019, 05:42 AM

Quote:

I'd like to upgrade it with a black nitride treatment (among a couple other things).

That is NOT an upgrade. Quite the opposite. It won’t shoot any better and its value will be seriously diminished.
Don’t do it.
Pete

treg · September 29, 2019, 09:14 AM

Thanks for the quick replies gentlemen.
The gun is in excellent shape and does not require bluing or repairs. Since hunting with it I have become quite fond of the way it handles and shoots.
The goal of nitriding was to turn it into an all weather shotgun with more utility than it has now. I just wasn't sure if the barrels were soldiered, which would / does eliminate the possibility of nitriding.
Although in great shape with only some minor handling wear, it is a common gun with little value beyond its utility. The goal is to increase utility though a few mods. IF I decide to make it "my" gun it will get screw in chokes, sling swivel studs and possibly chrome lined bores.
The other option is the purchase of the O/U that I've always wanted, which would sadly relegate this awesome M24 with a lot of life left in it to safe queen status.

FITASC · September 29, 2019, 09:25 AM

No need for chrome barrels; just finish cleaning with an oiled patch down the bore.

If you like it, just go shoot it. Depending on what it is currently choked versus what you want to do with it, that may or may not be worth it.

treg · September 29, 2019, 10:06 AM

Yes, I have grown quite fond of this shotgun and may decide to use it extensively in lieu of purchasing an O/U despite a few drawbacks.

Extensive use = squirrels, rabbits, partridge, coyote, pheasants and possibly waterfowl.

I will have to read up on the effects of various non-toxic loads on plain steel bores both for the preserves and for general use on coyotes or waterfowl.

I'm assuming that daily cleaning / oiling is required under damp, "harsh" conditions with such a gun.

FITASC · September 29, 2019, 12:16 PM

Quote:

I'm assuming that daily cleaning / oiling is required under damp, "harsh" conditions with such a gun.

That would be pretty much true for any gun in those conditions

Dufus · September 29, 2019, 01:17 PM

Leave it as is. Sell it to someone that appreciates it as is. Then go buy you that nitride, chrome bored, screw-in choked gun that you want.

You will not wind up with a bastardized Winchester classic.

10-96 · September 29, 2019, 05:59 PM

I can't say much for the inside of the barrels, but a yellow can of Johnson's Paste Wax does wonders for the outside of the shotgun in damp areas.

bamaranger · September 29, 2019, 11:18 PM

Yes, it's yours and you can do as you see fit........but please don't.

In addition to not spoiling a nice vintage SXS, you'll prevent heartburn and lamentations by us old gun guys.

I've always wanted a Win 24, they were solid, walnut and steel, no frills blue collar shotguns, made in an era when everything was simpler. I've always felt they were a step up from their competition, the Savage 311. Win 24's, like everything else worth having, have now jumped in price, so that a solid one is not much of a deal.

As an aside, Stoeger sells a matte finished SXS and an O/U too, for right around $400, that might make a good beater, but one would still have to care for it accordingly.

treg · October 1, 2019, 08:59 PM

With the option of making it an "all-weather" gun out the window I will use it as it is other than the addition of sling studs.
It's choked mod / full and those are the chokes I use the most in my current shotgun.
Part of owning and using a vintage gun is the care required. I'll be getting a can of Johnsons paste wax as 10-96 suggested.
Took it for a walk yesterday and really enjoyed it. As bamaranger said it is a good solid gun.
Thanks to all who replied.

T. O'Heir · October 2, 2019, 01:40 PM

"...the nitride treatment process (<600 deg F)..." Is more like 970F if it's gas nitriding.
A lot depends on how long the barrels are, but a 12 ga. Win M24 isn't terribly expensive. Start at about $600 on Guns International and the Winchester Collector's site(other gauges are worth more). And the barrels may or may not be connected with solder.
A pound of Johnson's Paste Wax runs $6.47 at Home Depot. Works well on wood too.

Don Fischer · October 3, 2019, 07:14 PM

One of the nicest gun's I ever shot was a mod 23 Winchester. Your talking about screwing up a nice gun! And for what purpose?

bamaranger · October 4, 2019, 05:23 AM

I ambled into a shop recently and they had one of those rotary things that hold long guns vertically. The rotary rack was elevated, about hip level.....on the back side I recognized the receiver of a M24, they're kind of distinctive.

I spun that thing around, sure enough a clean looking M24, in 16 ga....except....somebody had lopped the last 6" or so of the barrels off to make the barrels 24-25" in length and installed a "Ray-bar" type front sight....arrgh!!!!! The shop still wanted over $600 bucks for the thing.

In another instance, nearly 30 yrs ago, I worked a grueling detail, making fair money,and the whole 3 weeks plus, I dreamed about buying another M24-16ga that had surfaced in a local shop. As I recall, it was priced about $250 bucks. I got back from the assignment.........sold.

bamaranger · October 4, 2019, 05:26 AM

I wouldn't install sling swivels either. Buy one of those loop slings that just slide off and on the gun. Drilling the wood is almost as bad as lopping the barrels.

Hawg · October 4, 2019, 08:04 AM

Do not shoot anything but lead out of those barrels. Please don't screw it up. Sell it to somebody that appreciates it.

treg · October 4, 2019, 08:04 PM

Took it out partridge hunting today. Got 3 squirrels, had to shoot a couple clay birds when I got back to the house.

I like it as it is and just clean it after each use, no biggy.

I'd never lop the barrels, it swings like a dream.

bamaranger · October 6, 2019, 10:21 PM

A convert.......glad you are now walking in the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!

September 28, 2019, 08:39 PM	#1
treg Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,102	Vintage SxS - black nitride? I recently inherited a Winchester Model 24 in 12 gauge. It's in good shape, but I'd like to upgrade it with a black nitride treatment (among a couple other things). Is the nitride treatment process (<600 deg F) too hot for the barrel assembly? __________________ .44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

September 28, 2019, 09:07 PM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Seriously? What's wrong with the bluing it came with? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 29, 2019, 12:29 AM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Solder will melt waaaaay before 600 degrees, so unless you want to learn how to solder barrels together I would just rust blue them. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 29, 2019, 09:14 AM	#6
treg Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,102	Thanks for the quick replies gentlemen. The gun is in excellent shape and does not require bluing or repairs. Since hunting with it I have become quite fond of the way it handles and shoots. The goal of nitriding was to turn it into an all weather shotgun with more utility than it has now. I just wasn't sure if the barrels were soldiered, which would / does eliminate the possibility of nitriding. Although in great shape with only some minor handling wear, it is a common gun with little value beyond its utility. The goal is to increase utility though a few mods. IF I decide to make it "my" gun it will get screw in chokes, sling swivel studs and possibly chrome lined bores. The other option is the purchase of the O/U that I've always wanted, which would sadly relegate this awesome M24 with a lot of life left in it to safe queen status. __________________ .44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

September 29, 2019, 09:25 AM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	No need for chrome barrels; just finish cleaning with an oiled patch down the bore. If you like it, just go shoot it. Depending on what it is currently choked versus what you want to do with it, that may or may not be worth it. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 29, 2019, 03:38 AM	#4
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	if you do those things the value will take a nose dive, and if you get the barrels up to 600 degrees you may have two single barrels. not a good idea, but its yours.

September 29, 2019, 10:06 AM	#8
treg Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,102	Yes, I have grown quite fond of this shotgun and may decide to use it extensively in lieu of purchasing an O/U despite a few drawbacks. Extensive use = squirrels, rabbits, partridge, coyote, pheasants and possibly waterfowl. I will have to read up on the effects of various non-toxic loads on plain steel bores both for the preserves and for general use on coyotes or waterfowl. I'm assuming that daily cleaning / oiling is required under damp, "harsh" conditions with such a gun. __________________ .44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. Last edited by treg; September 29, 2019 at 10:43 AM.

September 29, 2019, 01:17 PM	#10
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Leave it as is. Sell it to someone that appreciates it as is. Then go buy you that nitride, chrome bored, screw-in choked gun that you want. You will not wind up with a bastardized Winchester classic.

September 29, 2019, 05:59 PM	#11
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	I can't say much for the inside of the barrels, but a yellow can of Johnson's Paste Wax does wonders for the outside of the shotgun in damp areas. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 29, 2019, 11:18 PM	#12
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	please don't Yes, it's yours and you can do as you see fit........but please don't. In addition to not spoiling a nice vintage SXS, you'll prevent heartburn and lamentations by us old gun guys. I've always wanted a Win 24, they were solid, walnut and steel, no frills blue collar shotguns, made in an era when everything was simpler. I've always felt they were a step up from their competition, the Savage 311. Win 24's, like everything else worth having, have now jumped in price, so that a solid one is not much of a deal. As an aside, Stoeger sells a matte finished SXS and an O/U too, for right around $400, that might make a good beater, but one would still have to care for it accordingly.

October 1, 2019, 08:59 PM	#13
treg Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,102	With the option of making it an "all-weather" gun out the window I will use it as it is other than the addition of sling studs. It's choked mod / full and those are the chokes I use the most in my current shotgun. Part of owning and using a vintage gun is the care required. I'll be getting a can of Johnsons paste wax as 10-96 suggested. Took it for a walk yesterday and really enjoyed it. As bamaranger said it is a good solid gun. Thanks to all who replied. __________________ .44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

October 2, 2019, 01:40 PM	#14
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...the nitride treatment process (<600 deg F)..." Is more like 970F if it's gas nitriding. A lot depends on how long the barrels are, but a 12 ga. Win M24 isn't terribly expensive. Start at about $600 on Guns International and the Winchester Collector's site(other gauges are worth more). And the barrels may or may not be connected with solder. A pound of Johnson's Paste Wax runs $6.47 at Home Depot. Works well on wood too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 3, 2019, 07:14 PM	#15
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	One of the nicest gun's I ever shot was a mod 23 Winchester. Your talking about screwing up a nice gun! And for what purpose?

October 4, 2019, 05:23 AM	#16
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	recently I ambled into a shop recently and they had one of those rotary things that hold long guns vertically. The rotary rack was elevated, about hip level.....on the back side I recognized the receiver of a M24, they're kind of distinctive. I spun that thing around, sure enough a clean looking M24, in 16 ga....except....somebody had lopped the last 6" or so of the barrels off to make the barrels 24-25" in length and installed a "Ray-bar" type front sight....arrgh!!!!! The shop still wanted over $600 bucks for the thing. In another instance, nearly 30 yrs ago, I worked a grueling detail, making fair money,and the whole 3 weeks plus, I dreamed about buying another M24-16ga that had surfaced in a local shop. As I recall, it was priced about $250 bucks. I got back from the assignment.........sold.

October 4, 2019, 05:26 AM	#17
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	Oh yeah I wouldn't install sling swivels either. Buy one of those loop slings that just slide off and on the gun. Drilling the wood is almost as bad as lopping the barrels.

October 4, 2019, 08:04 AM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Do not shoot anything but lead out of those barrels. Please don't screw it up. Sell it to somebody that appreciates it.

October 4, 2019, 08:04 PM	#19
treg Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,102	Took it out partridge hunting today. Got 3 squirrels, had to shoot a couple clay birds when I got back to the house. I like it as it is and just clean it after each use, no biggy. I'd never lop the barrels, it swings like a dream. __________________ .44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

October 6, 2019, 10:21 PM	#20
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	Yes yes A convert.......glad you are now walking in the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!