Where the heck are all the muzzle crowning tools??

Daekar · May 16, 2011, 10:26 PM

I've been trying for literally months now to get ahold of a crowning tool for use on SKS and Mosin-Nagant rifles. If you don't want to spend $150+ you're up a creek, because everybody is sold out completely! I've tried google, brownells, and midway... I'm not sure what else to do. It's held up several projects just trying to get this one tool at a reasonable price. Does anybody know where I could get an 11 or 45 degree crown with 7.62/30 cal brass pilot?

Ah, I actually found one... it was just labelled a 79 degree tool...

GURU1911 · May 17, 2011, 05:41 AM

The 79 / 11 degree tools are the same: 90 degrees minus 11 equals 79 degrees !!!!!! Ta-dahhhhhh.

For those calibers you will need a .308" pilot. I prefer the steel version.

Check again with brownell's regarding the crowning tool. If they are out-of-stock, i was not aware of this.

Guru1911

GURU1911 · May 17, 2011, 06:43 AM

As a favor to you, i checked stock @ brownell's. The 45 & 79 degree crowning tools & pilots for .308 caliber rifles are in-stock. The rest is up to you.

You owe me one, kuz !!!!

Guru1911

Scorch · May 17, 2011, 11:11 AM

Any gunsmith worthy of the title has a crowning tool sitting in the corner. It's called a lathe.

Rifleman1776 · May 17, 2011, 01:34 PM

Chuck up a brass round-head screw in your hand drill. Apply an abrasive paste and work on that bore. Cost? Pennies.
Tip courtesy of Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks books.

FrankenMauser · May 17, 2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Chuck up a brass round-head screw in your hand drill. Apply an abrasive paste and work on that bore. Cost? Pennies.
Tip courtesy of Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks books.

My grandfather recrowned a Type 99 Arisaka with that method (except he had solid brass balls that he chucked directly in his drill press).

It worked amazingly well. ...and they're self-centering.

(so long as your screw has no run-out, and/or the ball is actually round)

**Unclenick** · May 17, 2011, 05:41 PM

Actually, your grandfather did the right thing. I looked at round head bolts with a circle template one time and found they were mostly elliptical, so they have to go straight in or you can get an asymmetrical crown.

I've had great success using ball bearings I groove with a Dremel tool and superglue to a piece of tubing for a handle. I have a lathe, but this lets me use it just to cut off the muzzle square and dress the OD, which doesn't require indicating out a perfect bore center. The lap then takes about 10 minutes and gets a sharper result.

I wrote it up long ago, including how to pick the ball size to get a certain angle at the edge of the grooves. I've attached it in PDF format.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...2&d=1292014695

RedNeckWino · May 19, 2011, 12:00 PM

Unclenick:
Great post. Thanks for sharing.

triggerman770 · May 27, 2011, 09:53 AM

" for use on SKS and Mosin-Nagant rifles"
actually you will need a 311 pilot
080-943-311 which is in stock now

dfaugh · May 27, 2011, 09:58 AM

You need a .311 pilot, NOT a .308...Speaking from experience w/ both SKS and Mosin rifles.

a7mmnut · May 27, 2011, 10:17 AM

???

I've always had them turned in a lathe. It takes a few minutes to grind in a new cutter and indicate for runout, but then it's a breeze. In addition, you can alter the compound tool holder to use various cuts and angles.

-7-

FrankenMauser · May 27, 2011, 01:44 PM

Very few people own lathes, or have access to them.

Larry Potterfield
Recrowning by hand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43odFm0mrI

Brass screw in a drill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZ...eature=related

Crown repair tool in a drill, and with a lathe:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MidwayUS.../7/x3ELBpqYCQc

BobGee · September 18, 2012, 09:51 AM

Hi Unclenick, Thanks for the advice in your attachment (Crown Ball Lapping2.PDF). I shall be re-crowning my Walther GPS-C barrel using it this weekend.

However, although this post is old, for the sake of posterity I think I should mention that the formula for choosing the lapping ball size is incorrect. The diameter (phi) should be: D/sin"theta", not 2D/sin"theta".

Thanks again for the info.

**Unclenick** · September 18, 2012, 10:11 PM

Bob,

Welcome to the forum.

I Actually put 2D/sinΘ in an earlier version of the PDF file. It was pointed out to me I was thinking in radius instead of diameter.

Edit:

OK. Now I see the problem. See next post below. The copy of the file in this post is the old one. The correct one is in another post on the forum. I taken out the bad copy and put a link to the correct one in.

jpmche · September 21, 2012, 07:07 AM

So, the correct equation is D/sin(theta). Right?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

**Unclenick** · September 21, 2012, 11:24 AM

Now I see the problem. The copy of the file in this thread is the old one. The correct one is in another post on the forum. I've taken out the bad copy and put a link to the correct one in the other post.

jpmche · September 21, 2012, 11:29 AM

Thank you, sir!

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

tobnpr · September 23, 2012, 10:20 AM

Brownells 79 degree cutter, .311 pilot (NOT .308...) yielded this:

May 16, 2011, 10:26 PM	#1
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	Where the heck are all the muzzle crowning tools?? I've been trying for literally months now to get ahold of a crowning tool for use on SKS and Mosin-Nagant rifles. If you don't want to spend $150+ you're up a creek, because everybody is sold out completely! I've tried google, brownells, and midway... I'm not sure what else to do. It's held up several projects just trying to get this one tool at a reasonable price. Does anybody know where I could get an 11 or 45 degree crown with 7.62/30 cal brass pilot? Ah, I actually found one... it was just labelled a 79 degree tool... Last edited by Daekar; May 16, 2011 at 10:43 PM.

May 17, 2011, 05:41 AM	#2
GURU1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Location: SEALY, THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS Posts: 501	The 79 / 11 degree tools are the same: 90 degrees minus 11 equals 79 degrees !!!!!! Ta-dahhhhhh. For those calibers you will need a .308" pilot. I prefer the steel version. Check again with brownell's regarding the crowning tool. If they are out-of-stock, i was not aware of this. Guru1911 __________________ NRA LIFE MEMBER (1984) & PRESIDENT: S.W. LA. R&P CLUB, LAKE CHARLES, LOUISIANA (1994-1999) METALLIC CARTRIDGE RELOADER (1977) & GENTILE CHRISTIAN ZIONIST INFIDEL !!! "THERE AIN'T TOO MANY THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T FIX, WITH $500 DOLLARS OR A .30-06"

May 17, 2011, 06:43 AM	#3
GURU1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Location: SEALY, THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS Posts: 501	Crowning tools As a favor to you, i checked stock @ brownell's. The 45 & 79 degree crowning tools & pilots for .308 caliber rifles are in-stock. The rest is up to you. You owe me one, kuz !!!! Guru1911 __________________ NRA LIFE MEMBER (1984) & PRESIDENT: S.W. LA. R&P CLUB, LAKE CHARLES, LOUISIANA (1994-1999) METALLIC CARTRIDGE RELOADER (1977) & GENTILE CHRISTIAN ZIONIST INFIDEL !!! "THERE AIN'T TOO MANY THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T FIX, WITH $500 DOLLARS OR A .30-06"

May 17, 2011, 11:11 AM	#4
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Any gunsmith worthy of the title has a crowning tool sitting in the corner. It's called a lathe. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 17, 2011, 05:41 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Actually, your grandfather did the right thing. I looked at round head bolts with a circle template one time and found they were mostly elliptical, so they have to go straight in or you can get an asymmetrical crown. I've had great success using ball bearings I groove with a Dremel tool and superglue to a piece of tubing for a handle. I have a lathe, but this lets me use it just to cut off the muzzle square and dress the OD, which doesn't require indicating out a perfect bore center. The lap then takes about 10 minutes and gets a sharper result. I wrote it up long ago, including how to pick the ball size to get a certain angle at the edge of the grooves. I've attached it in PDF format. http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...2&d=1292014695 __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM.

May 17, 2011, 01:34 PM	#5
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Chuck up a brass round-head screw in your hand drill. Apply an abrasive paste and work on that bore. Cost? Pennies. Tip courtesy of Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks books.

May 19, 2011, 12:00 PM	#8
RedNeckWino Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2011 Location: Northeren Michigan Posts: 121	Unclenick: Great post. Thanks for sharing.

May 27, 2011, 09:53 AM	#9
triggerman770 Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Metro Atlanta Area Posts: 125	crowning tools " for use on SKS and Mosin-Nagant rifles" actually you will need a 311 pilot 080-943-311 which is in stock now __________________ Small Arms Restoration, Inc. smallarmsrestoration.net Proud member of Georgia Carry.org www.georgiacarry.org

May 27, 2011, 09:58 AM	#10
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	+1 for Draekar You need a .311 pilot, NOT a .308...Speaking from experience w/ both SKS and Mosin rifles. __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

May 27, 2011, 10:17 AM	#11
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	??? I've always had them turned in a lathe. It takes a few minutes to grind in a new cutter and indicate for runout, but then it's a breeze. In addition, you can alter the compound tool holder to use various cuts and angles. -7-

May 27, 2011, 01:44 PM	#12
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Very few people own lathes, or have access to them. Larry Potterfield Recrowning by hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43odFm0mrI Brass screw in a drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZ...eature=related Crown repair tool in a drill, and with a lathe: http://www.youtube.com/user/MidwayUS.../7/x3ELBpqYCQc __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

September 18, 2012, 09:51 AM	#13
BobGee Junior Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1	Ball size Hi Unclenick, Thanks for the advice in your attachment (Crown Ball Lapping2.PDF). I shall be re-crowning my Walther GPS-C barrel using it this weekend. However, although this post is old, for the sake of posterity I think I should mention that the formula for choosing the lapping ball size is incorrect. The diameter (phi) should be: D/sin"theta", not 2D/sin"theta". Thanks again for the info.

September 18, 2012, 10:11 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Bob, Welcome to the forum. I Actually put 2D/sinΘ in an earlier version of the PDF file. It was pointed out to me I was thinking in radius instead of diameter. Edit: OK. Now I see the problem. See next post below. The copy of the file in this post is the old one. The correct one is in another post on the forum. I taken out the bad copy and put a link to the correct one in. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 21, 2012 at 11:24 AM.

September 21, 2012, 07:07 AM	#15
jpmche Junior Member Join Date: September 20, 2012 Posts: 2	So, the correct equation is D/sin(theta). Right? Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

September 21, 2012, 11:24 AM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Now I see the problem. The copy of the file in this thread is the old one. The correct one is in another post on the forum. I've taken out the bad copy and put a link to the correct one in the other post. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 22, 2012 at 01:26 PM.

September 21, 2012, 11:29 AM	#17
jpmche Junior Member Join Date: September 20, 2012 Posts: 2	Thank you, sir! Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

September 23, 2012, 10:20 AM	#18
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Brownells 79 degree cutter, .311 pilot (NOT .308...) yielded this: