Bad powder.

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day.
Who has had powder that has Spoiled/gone bad?
What was your indicator of bad powder?
Do you know what caused the condition?
Who has had powder for years that is still fine?

[Scorch]

I have never had any owder go bad, and I have some that I have had for 20+ years. Generaly, powder goes bad when exposed to high humigity, large temperature fluctuations, or left open to air for a long time.

[JCS1]

I have some powder that was bought back in the mid 60's. No problem so far. I bought a 100 pounds of 4831 at one time. No problem with it at all.

[AlaskaMike]

I had a can of Du Pont IMR 4350 that my dad gave me. He'd bought it back in the 1980's intending to work with a reloader friend (my dad didn't actually load). He'd stored it in a closet all those years and never touched it, so it was a very consistent 68 to 75 degrees for that time.

When he gave it to me it still had the original seal intact, so it was obvious it had never been opened. I poured some out on a sheet of paper, and although it didn't smell very different from the new H4350 I have, it seemed to have a lot of very fine, reddish or rust colored powder on it. That's one of the warning signs I've read about indicating a powder that's breaking down, so I didn't use it.

Mike

[ballardw]

I knew something was wrong when I was unpacking a box and the top of the can came off. NOT the lid, about half the can. This was 30 year old 4831, I think . Lots of red rust mixed in but hard to tell if it was can or gunpowder. The powder was loose, so not an obvious moisture problem. None of the other 5 cans in the box showed any problems though.

I recently loaded some 38 special with DuPont #6 that I think is 60's vintage. I'm pretty sure it'll go bang.

[crowbeaner]

I just loaded 150 rounds of 30/06 with some older IMR 4320 that had red dust pluming from the measure when I poured it in. I did the same thing that the man who showed me how to reload did back in the 60's- poured it in slow and blew the red dust away as it came from the measure. The ammo shoots 4 shots in a 4 leaf clover at 100 yards; better than the current load I'm shooting in my 742. I wish I had 8 lbs. of the same stuff. This is in FA60 and FA61 match brass with CCI 250 primers and a Hornady 165 grain BTSP.

[Slamfire]

Who has had powder that has Spoiled/gone bad?
What was your indicator of bad powder?
Do you know what caused the condition?

Half of the surplus IMR 4895 powders that I purchased went bad.

The first was in the 80's. I loaded up ammunition and for whatever reason, pulled some bullets. Green corrosion was on the bottom of the bases.

Red dust and a bitter smell became more pronounced over time.

I gave the keg away to a machine gunner. He stored the bottle in the laundry room. He flung some clothing in the room, and next day picked up a piece of laundry that had fallen over the keg. It had holes!

He poured the stuff out on the lawn.

The next batch that went bad revealed itself by cracked case necks in match ammo. Pulled bullets showed green corrosion on the base of the bullets. The powder had a neutral smell.

The funny darn thing was that detorating powder shot exceptional groups out to 600 yards

Recently I was able to talk to a Navy Energics guy. The nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose in double base powders combine to form a lower energy molecule. This reaction is temperature dependant, the higher the temperatures the faster it goes. Nitric acid gas is released as a by product of this reaction. Too much nitric acid will create heat and has caused ammunition dumps to blow.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13c_1205681217

The Navy use a type of test paper stored with powder samples to tell when the powder is outgassing. When the paper turns color they send a sample for analysis. If the analysis indicates that less than 15% of stabilizer is left in the powder, the lot is scrapped.

The Army scraps powder by clock time. 20 years for double base, 45 years for single base.

If your powder smells, or is red, it is way past time to dump it.

When I talked to Alliant powders about this, they told me that if the tin plating is missing, or spotty in your can, then the powder is outgassing and should be tossed.

The Navy guy said the best storage conditions for powder is constant dry cold. Like Artic cold. He said something about water exposure not being good. Don't know why.

[James R. Burke]

I never had any go bad. I think I have used some around fifthteen years old, I guess thats not very old but never had a problem. Stored in my basement in wooden cabinet temp is about 65 down there. Stays pretty constant.

[PCJim]

I had a 1# plastijug of Bullseye go bad on me after only 2 years. Storage conditions were not ideal, but did not effect other powders. No foul smell, no rust powder. I didn't realize it was bad 'cause it was shooting my 38 spl 158 DEWC's just fine. When I loaded some 9mm rounds with it was when I found it had gone bad. Max loads would not cycle the slide, unburnt powder everywhere. I tried everything and would not accept that two year old powder had gone bad. I confirmed it though when I bought a new 1# plastijug and loaded some 9mm with it.

The bad stuff must have done it's job, as the bushes in the bed where I dumped it sure did flower up nicely last year.....

[Ole 5 hole group]

I have several different powders that were purchased in the 70's and 80's (some even in the 50’s) and the only powder that ever went bad was IMR-4350 in the 1# brown cans. I just discovered this a couple weeks ago and up until then I never doubted old powder. I purchased 2 cases of that powder with the same lot number. I have about 1.5#s of that powder left in a plastic bottle used for my powder measure and it's just fine. It has to be the can, as I purchased a large quantity of "surplus" powder and stored that powder in empty powder containers that I relabeled. Those containers were WW 8# tins, Hodgdon tins and cardboard like containers and the surplus powder within those containers are just fine - the surplus powder stored in relabeled IMR-4350 one pound tins all went bad. I called Hodgdon and advised them of what happened and they didn’t seem too concerned, as they advised I just got a lot of powder that went bad sooner than most. When I again explained that a portion of that powder was still good in plastic and another type of powder stored in those IMR-4350 containers also went bad while the same lot of the surplus powder stored in other containers is still in great shape he didn’t have anything to say except I shouldn’t be storing powder in containers that it didn’t originally come in. I don’t imagine there was much he could say. All I can say now is if you purchase old powder at gun shows just make sure you smell the powder first before purchasing it, as I for one, won't be too trusting of old IMR powders in brown one pound tins even if they have never been opened and were stored properly.

Never tried crowbeaner's method - I've still got the "bad" powder as the snow has just melted and it's a little early for the flowers - might just try a couple rounds and see if the old odd 6 will group with it.