laser sight on your carry gun

[Koda94]

Not following you... I never said anyone was removing their irons.

Were just expressing opinions here about lasers, no big deal. If you want to train with both thats fine, your probably a better shot than myself.

Just my opinion to not use lasers for reasons...

And nobodys answered my eariler question yet, which one will you use in a gunfight?

(The question is open to everyone)

[DMK]

Fair enough Koda94. I do agree with you about the white light though. The new Crimson Trace for my Shield has both and I'd take the light over the laser if I had to choose.

I also agree that most people that buy these things aren't training properly, and maybe I'm not either, I'm always trying to learn and improve.

[Koda94]

As long as your training with it your fine. The problem many people have is they buy the laser because they dont train with the gun, it seems so much easier right? I think if your going to have one the best idea is to train with both...

But in the heat of a stressful moment your going to instinctly pick one, my main reason I dont want a laser is because Id rather that be the one that I know will never fail to turn on.

[Cheapshooter]

What are you guys doing, point firing from the waist?

No, not from the hip.
Probably some official mall ninja training name for a modified whatever stance, or something. I just have learned to instinctively point at what I want to hit and shoot. With shoulder, and elbow injuries, and damage my "stance" is probably some modified, modified something or other. Works for me, fast, sure and accurate. That's all I am concerned with.

[Rangerrich99]

I have lasers on three of my handguns; an LCP, S&W M69, and one of my 1911s. The one on my LCP is probably the one I feel is the most useful to me, simply because the iron sights on that gun are so small that in anything less than good light I have to 'hunt' for them after the first shot. Now, I did learn to index the back of my hand with my LCP, and I can get off all six rounds in less than two seconds from low-ready into a pie plate area at 7 yards, but I don't have a feeling of high confidence using those tiny sights. And at least half the time I'll have a flier well outside that 8-inch circle.

With the laser I just press the trigger every time the red dot enters the area around whatever aiming point I'm using, and don't even have to bother looking for the sights. My actual time for six shots is just a few tenths quicker than without the laser, but my accuracy is much better; typically about the size of a baseball, and almost never a flier.

Practicing this way has improved my point shooting skills with all three laser-fitted guns. It also makes longer shots beyond 20 yards much easier and faster. For example, a couple years ago I took a rabbit in the head at 40 paces in that low flat light right before true sundown with my 1911; a shot I know I couldn't have pulled off with the irons alone. Tasty sucker too.

However, I did have to train myself not to chase the dot. So for slow, aimed shooting I turn the lasers off. The exception to this is dry-fire practice; I love using lasers for dry fire practice, for all the reasons previously mentioned.

Otherwise, I only practice reaction or from the draw shooting with the lasers.

The caveats to all of this are simple: you have to understand the limitations of the device, you have to do your due diligence (changing batteries and so forth), you still have to use good trigger mechanics, and you can't allow yourself to rely absolutely on the gadget.

Overall, I firmly believe laser sights can be very useful tools, as long as you keep the above constraints in mind.

Oh, and my answer to Koda's question is I would use the laser in a gunfight. Now, inside ten yards I'm not sure I'd spend much brain activity looking for the dot, but if I saw the dot rising up into my sight line I'd be very confident in my bullet placement, especially at longer distances.

[FairWarning]

I have Crimson Trace laser grips on my Sig 1911 for home defense and sometimes winter carry. In addition to being an aid in low light situations, I believe the intimidation factor for your intended target would be quite formidable.

It's the only laser equipped gun I have, and I don't feel a pressing need for more, but it's nice to have. The very first time I went to the range with it, I was more than a little rusty and thinking that the laser would make up for that and help me get small groups. NOT SO FAST!! It can be a distraction, actually. At least it helps you realize how unsteady your hands are at any moment, which encourages you to concentrate! So I stopped using it until I got used to the behavior of the Sig and recalibrated my hands and eyes to pistol shooting again.

[stephen426]

I installed the LaserMax Guide Rod Replacement on my Glock 26 and hated it. The laser is activated by pushing the take down latch to the left or right. While it is easy enough to activate, it is too easy to accidentally activate and kill the battery. The wider take down bar also interfered with the holster. The laser was set for flashing only which was pretty annoying. Since the laser replaced the guide rod, I was pretty much spot on. The problem with being so close to the barrel is that the burnt gasses also covers the laser pretty quickly. Overall, Lsermax Guiderod laser was a big Thumbs down.

When I switched to the Kahr PM9, i added a Crimson Trace Laserguard to it. For those who don't know about it, it mounts to the trigger guard and is activated by a button that is just under the trigger guard. The laser turns on if you grip the pistol and it is simple to use. The sight can be adjusted for wind age and elevation. I give this laser a thumbs up!

When I switched to the Glock 43, I bought a Crimson Trace Laserguard Pro who has a light and a laser. It can be set for light and laser, light only, laser only, and strobe with laser. I would never use it on strobe since that has just as much of an effect messing with my eyes. This sight also mounts to the trigger guard and is activated by a pressure switch right under the trigger guard. This sight is adjustable for windage and elevation as well. I give this sight a big thumbs up. Holsters can be hard to Coke by, but Crimson Trace makes holsters for the guns they make lasers for.

As many have already said, lasers are just additional tools. For me, it may be the difference between a bad guy giving up without firing a shot. I won't count on it, but having a laser dot would also give me visual confirmation of my aim. The other thing lasers may be good for is firing from cover or awkward positions. Don't depend on it for your life, but it can be a great tool.

[Koda94]

I think the intimidation factor is a myth.... Kinda like "stopping power"

[PSP]

Having a firearm pointed at you is very intimidating. Having one with a bright light just makes the picture more noticeable, a real attention getter, perhaps more, but at least as intimidating. At least that's my experience and learned opinion.

[stephen426]

@Koda94,

I think the intimidation factor is a myth.... Kinda like "stopping power"

I won't count on it,

I think I covered that.

[Hawg]

No lasers or lights for me.

[Boncrayon]

I keep a laser on my carry, but installed TruGlo sights for night capture of my sights. Still think a laser can be a deterrent to would-be criminals at a distance.

[FairWarning]

Originally Posted by Koda94

I think the intimidation factor is a myth....

I disagree. I know I would be QUITE concerned if I suddenly saw a red laser on my chest in the darkness, and thugs aren't supermen either. It could potentially instantly defuse a hostile situation.

For the thugs who are hellbent on destruction and don't care that a gun is aimed at them, I would back up the threat of the laser with lead. So it doesn't matter if they are intimidated or not.

[Cirdan]

I prefer to see what I'm shooting, before I pull the trigger. So I dropped the laser and replaced it with a nice, bright light. As I understand it, most self-defense shootings take place after dark.

[Koda94]

What are the odds a bad guy is going to be staring down at his chest when attacking you? What are the legalities of pointing a gun at someone to scare them off?

[PSP]

I think a bad guy will see the laser on the gun rather than his chest. It's the gun that counts. The laser just makes the moment a little more startling for the bad guy.

[Koda94]

Might also give him something to shoot at...

What are the legalities of pointing a gun at someone to scare them off?

[stephen426]

@Koda94,

Not sure if any argument is going to convince you, but firearms are used all the time to prevent a crime without ever having to fire a shot. Just read American rifleman for plenty of examples. I'm not pulling the trigger unless I absolutely have to. It doesn't mean I'm not prepared to do so if I have to.

You can say the intimidation factor is a total myth. You can argue that batteries fail. My question is what is the downside to having an ADDITIONAL tool at your disposal? You mentioned giving the bad guy something to shoot at. If this is some sort of ambush situation, possibly, but simply taking pressure off the switch will turn off the light/laser. As for hunting for a laser dot, my laser is adjusted to land exactly on point of impact, or basically, right where my sights line up. For point shooting, it is a great confirmation of point of aim.

To each his own I guess.

[Ibmikey]

Aaaah, the great laser/open sight debate, once again!.....i have no objections to the laser being attached to a pistol...someone else's pistol. In an up close and personal fight i have trained to use the pistol as an extension of my arm, pick up the front sight and target then go boom! In very low light conditions where the target is a shadow and the sights are non existant that same practiced pointing of the arm to center of mass is quite effective.
I issued pistols with night sights, i did not issue lasers, training focused on the aformentioned technique which did not include the use of additional brain cells to activate a laser and get it on a hostile target.
Unless constantlly training with the laser, something the average schmoe will not do, the only thing you get in actual use is the firer's eyes focused on the dot and attempting to bring it to a point to fire.

[Cheapshooter]

My question is what is the downside to having an ADDITIONAL tool at your disposal?

No downside if you don't learn to lean on something that has a higher probability of failure. Unfortunatly too many people believe the TV ads, and movie scenes that make lasers look like the be all, end all to accurately shooting.
As for intimidation, if an assailant has a gun I'm not wasting time tryingg to scare him with a little dot that he may or may not even notice. If he does not display a gun, and is not imediatly on me, I am going to verbally warn him that I feel threatened while I prepare to draw.
In a home situation in a dark inviornment a super intense flashlight is much more of a deterrent. Blinding, and disorienting the subject. Not one mounted on my gun either. I'm not fond of covering someone I don't intend to shoot because my light is attached the my gun.
I can shoot quite well with supporting my gun hand by laying it wrist o er wrist of the hand holding the flashlight if need be. But I don't have to have the gun pointed at what I am searching with the light until needed.

That's just my choices, and meant as food for thought about relying on lasers as your primary aiming tool.

[FairWarning]

In the end, you can always turn the laser OFF if you so choose. Nice to have choices isn't it? And with Crimson Trace, you don't have some big, blocky box hanging under your barrel.

I think the word FREEZE or STOP will startle most in the dark, but if they hear freeze then see the laser, it has extra impact. They will have an extra degree of confidence that you do indeed have a gun aimed at them, and are not just bluffing, especially if in the dark.

[Rob62]

There is no laser sight on my carry gun. I am personally not a fan of lasers on guns. Lights yes - Lasers no. Night Sights - always.

[springer99]

Big fan of Laser sights here; especially those from CT with the front actuator. I have them on my 1911 and Smith 642. There was a time when I could easily focus on iron sights, whether they had tritium night sights or not. Sadly those days have passed, especially in low light situations or without my glasses on.

AFAIC, the only downside to red laser sights is that they really don't show up well in daylight(at least not beyond 3-7yds or so. My son just got the newer CT green laser grips on his LCR and WOW, what a difference. Much more visible in bright light!! I gotta switch over to those.

The only possible downside to them that I can see is they do need batteries, but hey, CT sends me new ones for free each year, whether I need them or not.

[Koda94]

@Koda94,

Not sure if any argument is going to convince you, but firearms are used all the time to prevent a crime without ever having to fire a shot.

And not a one of those were because of a laser beam


Folks, I get how a laser 'could' be used to intimidate someone. But you guys are watching too much TV and are missing the point... Its illegal to intimidate someone with a laser sight. If your not justified in pulling the trigger, your not justified in pointing the gun. The reason many cases end without a shot fired is because the threat ended when the gun was presented. Bad guys do not care what you use to aim with...

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by Koda94

And not a one of those were because of a laser beam


Folks, I get how a laser 'could' be used to intimidate someone. But you guys are watching too much TV and are missing the point... Its illegal to intimidate someone with a laser sight. If your not justified in pulling the trigger, your not justified in pointing the gun. The reason many cases end without a shot fired is because the threat ended when the gun was presented. Bad guys do not care what you use to aim with...

Probably beating this dead horse till its hamburger meat but...

When the laser is attached to a firearm and you already have the gun trained on someone, it can be a very real deterrent. No one is saying to use the laser sight to INTIMIDATE someone. You're the one missing the point. Just because you are justified to point the gun and pull the trigger, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PULL THE TRIGGER. A self defense situation will undoubtedly complicate your life even if completely justified. If the bad guy gives up and I don't have to pull the trigger, great. If the laser has even a small impact on convincing him to stop his aggression, then great. If not, it provides an additional sighting tool which CAN increase my probability of making good critical hits.