Jinked or just needs tweaking

Doc Holliday 1950 · June 11, 2018, 08:24 PM

Well, I went to my range today and shot 100 rounds of Winchester 130 gr. special FMJ and EVERY 7th. round misfired in my new 686+ 3" that I had my GS do a trigger job on it. Here's the kicker. I ran 7- 357 in magnum rounds of Winchester 110 gr. JHP and not one misfire.

I'm going back to my GS and figure out what's wrong.
Is it the ammo? It shouldn't matter, not at 9 lbs. that the DA now is.

What's your opinions on this. I hope that this is just a minor thing that can be fixed easily.

When I originally brought it in to my GS, he said it might take 4-5 weeks to do the job because he was overloaded with work. So I bought a EAA 2" 357 in magnum Vindicator revolver. I took that also to the range and even though the trigger pull is quite stout I was shooting
1.5 to 2" groups from 15 feet out to 35 feet using the same ammo. I was stunned but quite happy. This is a keeper I hope. Shooting the 357 in mag rounds were pretty tame. No stinging or such. I think that the weight of the 2" ( 1.9 pounds) mitigated any large perceived recoil.

Carmady · June 11, 2018, 10:11 PM

Quote:

shot 100 rounds of Winchester 130 gr. special FMJ and EVERY 7th. round misfired

Are you saying you had 14 misfires out of 100, and they were all on the same charge hole?

Doc Holliday 1950 · June 11, 2018, 10:18 PM

YES. All of the misfires were on the 7th. round every time . That just blew my mind.

Carmady · June 11, 2018, 10:25 PM

Assuming that the 7th round was ALWAYS on in the same charge hole, maybe the cartridges seat a little low there for some weird reason.

Did it do that before you had it fixed, or is this something that started after you got it back? Did you use the same ammo before with no trouble?

Doc Holliday 1950 · June 12, 2018, 06:04 AM

Never thought about that. I really doubt that all of the misfires were out of the same chamber. But I'll bring that up to my GS when I see him today.

rodfac · June 12, 2018, 07:15 AM

Doc, I'd be more apt to suspect the hammer fall is a might too light after the trigger job. In DA mode, only, right? Also, do they fire when tried a 2nd time, and always in the same chamber?

Many years ago....ok it was 40+, I had the S&W factory up in Springfield, Mass., do a DA trigger job on my 6" Smith M19. It was and still is the finest DA trigger pull I've ever encountered, but will on occasion, fail to fire an especially stout primer. In my case, cleaning the rear end of the cylinder face, and especially, under the extractor star, prevents any burnt powder from cushioning the hammer fall. Frequency runs ~1 in 200+, even with 'hard' primers.

In your case, one out of seven, points to more than that cause (a cushioned hammer fall). I'd agree with you that a trip back to the smith that did the work is in order.

Best Regards, Rod

dahermit · June 12, 2018, 07:39 AM

Were your 110 grain rounds and the 130 grain rounds of the same brand with the same primers? After lightening my S&W triggers, I use only Federal primers inasmuch as they are the most sensitive. Before someone goes nuts, my revolvers are only for target work, not self-defense.

NoSecondBest · June 12, 2018, 07:59 AM

If your misfires were reloads and the others that fired were not, that's probably your problem. Seating them too deep and a lightened hammer fall will do this. If you reloaded the ones that misfired and the others that fired were factory loads the problem can be in the primer seated too deep or the primer being harder than the factory load primers. At 9 lbs, hammer strike should not be the problem. My 686's (three of them) all had trigger jobs and I never, repeat NEVER get misfires.

pete2 · June 12, 2018, 10:24 AM

First question is did the gun misfire before you did the trigger job? I it didn't then there's your answer. Always misfiring on the 7th round is strange. You should also try Remington and Federal ammo, Win. white box isn't top quality stuff. I would lean toward too light on the hammer fall.

T. O'Heir · June 12, 2018, 12:39 PM

"...and not one misfire..." That indicates something with the ammo isn't working right. The bullet weight doesn't matter, but factory or reload does.
"...ALWAYS on in the same charge hole..." That is what you need to check. Isn't likely, but still possible. Also not likely you started with the same cylinder every time either. Means you need try one shot out of each cylinder. A Sharpie dot on the back should do to mark each one as tried. Or leave the first case in so you know where you started. It's also doable with just a primer vs needing a range. Assumes you have a basement to play in.

Doc Holliday 1950 · June 12, 2018, 10:00 PM

I think that Pete 2 had it diagnosed pretty well. It never misfired before the trigger job and I saved 4 of the shells that didn't fire and gave them to my GS plus 50 round of the Winchester ammo to use.He too thought that the hammer wasn't hitting the primer? correctly. I really hate being a novice about this.
One thing that I'm really pleased with is the amount of knowledge that the members of this forum have and the willingness to teach or explain what's what.

pete2 · June 13, 2018, 09:57 AM

Doc, The D/A pull on a S&W revolver can usually be lightened a bit and still fire all ammo. A lot of us lighten them too much to fire all ammo, we hand load and use Federal primers which are softer or more sensitive. If you carry the gun it would be best not to lighten it , just have it smoothed up. I have 2 or 3 that prolly won't fire reliably with anything but Fed. primers, they are range guns. Primers have to be seated all the way to be reliable if you do hand load. I have bought 2 or 3 new S&W guns that had extremely heavy main springs, no way to do accurate D/A shooting with them. OK for self defense. I have installed a couple Wolff standard springs that lightened the pull some what or at least it feels lighter. Some of the older S&W guns have great triggers without having to do an action job on them.
My 2 cents worth................................................................

Chainsaw. · June 14, 2018, 07:38 AM

I just shot my 629 N frame yesterday, a gun that has been untterly reliable. I had about a 50% failure to fire issue out of the blue. Long story short, turns out the tension screw on the main spring had backed out a bit. Screwed her back in and was back to 100% reliability. The DA and SA are sliiiightly heavier than before (it was the absolute best factory trigger I and many others had ever felt) so Ill sloooowly back it off no more than a half turn, then put some finger nail polish in it. Any way, might be worth checking on your gun. Oh aand dribble some oil down in front of the trigger when it back, just a little!

June 11, 2018, 08:24 PM	#1
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	Jinked or just needs tweaking Well, I went to my range today and shot 100 rounds of Winchester 130 gr. special FMJ and EVERY 7th. round misfired in my new 686+ 3" that I had my GS do a trigger job on it. Here's the kicker. I ran 7- 357 in magnum rounds of Winchester 110 gr. JHP and not one misfire. I'm going back to my GS and figure out what's wrong. Is it the ammo? It shouldn't matter, not at 9 lbs. that the DA now is. What's your opinions on this. I hope that this is just a minor thing that can be fixed easily. When I originally brought it in to my GS, he said it might take 4-5 weeks to do the job because he was overloaded with work. So I bought a EAA 2" 357 in magnum Vindicator revolver. I took that also to the range and even though the trigger pull is quite stout I was shooting 1.5 to 2" groups from 15 feet out to 35 feet using the same ammo. I was stunned but quite happy. This is a keeper I hope. Shooting the 357 in mag rounds were pretty tame. No stinging or such. I think that the weight of the 2" ( 1.9 pounds) mitigated any large perceived recoil. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

June 11, 2018, 10:18 PM	#3
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	YES. All of the misfires were on the 7th. round every time . That just blew my mind. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

June 12, 2018, 06:04 AM	#5
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	Never thought about that. I really doubt that all of the misfires were out of the same chamber. But I'll bring that up to my GS when I see him today. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

June 12, 2018, 07:15 AM	#6
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Doc, I'd be more apt to suspect the hammer fall is a might too light after the trigger job. In DA mode, only, right? Also, do they fire when tried a 2nd time, and always in the same chamber? Many years ago....ok it was 40+, I had the S&W factory up in Springfield, Mass., do a DA trigger job on my 6" Smith M19. It was and still is the finest DA trigger pull I've ever encountered, but will on occasion, fail to fire an especially stout primer. In my case, cleaning the rear end of the cylinder face, and especially, under the extractor star, prevents any burnt powder from cushioning the hammer fall. Frequency runs ~1 in 200+, even with 'hard' primers. In your case, one out of seven, points to more than that cause (a cushioned hammer fall). I'd agree with you that a trip back to the smith that did the work is in order. Best Regards, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

June 12, 2018, 12:39 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...and not one misfire..." That indicates something with the ammo isn't working right. The bullet weight doesn't matter, but factory or reload does. "...ALWAYS on in the same charge hole..." That is what you need to check. Isn't likely, but still possible. Also not likely you started with the same cylinder every time either. Means you need try one shot out of each cylinder. A Sharpie dot on the back should do to mark each one as tried. Or leave the first case in so you know where you started. It's also doable with just a primer vs needing a range. Assumes you have a basement to play in. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 11, 2018, 10:25 PM	#4
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Assuming that the 7th round was ALWAYS on in the same charge hole, maybe the cartridges seat a little low there for some weird reason. Did it do that before you had it fixed, or is this something that started after you got it back? Did you use the same ammo before with no trouble?

June 12, 2018, 07:39 AM	#7
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Were your 110 grain rounds and the 130 grain rounds of the same brand with the same primers? After lightening my S&W triggers, I use only Federal primers inasmuch as they are the most sensitive. Before someone goes nuts, my revolvers are only for target work, not self-defense.

June 12, 2018, 07:59 AM	#8
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	If your misfires were reloads and the others that fired were not, that's probably your problem. Seating them too deep and a lightened hammer fall will do this. If you reloaded the ones that misfired and the others that fired were factory loads the problem can be in the primer seated too deep or the primer being harder than the factory load primers. At 9 lbs, hammer strike should not be the problem. My 686's (three of them) all had trigger jobs and I never, repeat NEVER get misfires.

June 12, 2018, 10:24 AM	#9
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	First question is did the gun misfire before you did the trigger job? I it didn't then there's your answer. Always misfiring on the 7th round is strange. You should also try Remington and Federal ammo, Win. white box isn't top quality stuff. I would lean toward too light on the hammer fall.

June 12, 2018, 10:00 PM	#11
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	I think that Pete 2 had it diagnosed pretty well. It never misfired before the trigger job and I saved 4 of the shells that didn't fire and gave them to my GS plus 50 round of the Winchester ammo to use.He too thought that the hammer wasn't hitting the primer? correctly. I really hate being a novice about this. One thing that I'm really pleased with is the amount of knowledge that the members of this forum have and the willingness to teach or explain what's what. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

June 13, 2018, 09:57 AM	#12
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Doc, The D/A pull on a S&W revolver can usually be lightened a bit and still fire all ammo. A lot of us lighten them too much to fire all ammo, we hand load and use Federal primers which are softer or more sensitive. If you carry the gun it would be best not to lighten it , just have it smoothed up. I have 2 or 3 that prolly won't fire reliably with anything but Fed. primers, they are range guns. Primers have to be seated all the way to be reliable if you do hand load. I have bought 2 or 3 new S&W guns that had extremely heavy main springs, no way to do accurate D/A shooting with them. OK for self defense. I have installed a couple Wolff standard springs that lightened the pull some what or at least it feels lighter. Some of the older S&W guns have great triggers without having to do an action job on them. My 2 cents worth................................................................

June 14, 2018, 07:38 AM	#13
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	I just shot my 629 N frame yesterday, a gun that has been untterly reliable. I had about a 50% failure to fire issue out of the blue. Long story short, turns out the tension screw on the main spring had backed out a bit. Screwed her back in and was back to 100% reliability. The DA and SA are sliiiightly heavier than before (it was the absolute best factory trigger I and many others had ever felt) so Ill sloooowly back it off no more than a half turn, then put some finger nail polish in it. Any way, might be worth checking on your gun. Oh aand dribble some oil down in front of the trigger when it back, just a little! __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.