Why A Pump Over Auto For Home Defense

[TheKlawMan]

I have a pump, an 870, and frist shot it in rapid fire with buck shot and slugs just yesterday. I didn't notice that it took more time to pump than it did to recover from recoil. If it was longer it was a split second and that was with only a few rounds of rapid fire practice

[Sport45]

For those that wait for the threat to materialize before racking keep in mind that in doing so you just reduced your shell count in the mag by one.

Also, I hope you are familiar with how a pump action shotgun works. If there's one in the chamber you'll get a satisfying bang when you release the safety and pull the trigger. On an 870 if the receiver is canted with the ejection port down when you pull the slide back the shell may wind up on the floor. I'm not familiar with the action of other pump guns.

As an alternative, you may be able to keep a full mag with the action open. (I've never tried, so I don't know if you can even load the mag with the bolt back.) Then, to put the gun into action all you have to do is toss a shell in front of the bolt and rack it closed. (Be sure to toss the shell in with the base to the rear. When you're excited. And in the dark...)

[TheKlawMan]

Sport45, I am pretty new to shotguns, to guns, and to the 870. but I believe there are at least two ways to load a full tube and leave one securely seated on the elevator.

If you have the short Law Enforcement forend (the corn cob) it is easy since the forend doesn't block the loading port when it is slid to the rear.

If you have the long stock, it still isn't that tricky. Load the tube until full, slide the forend back until the elevater picks up a round from the magazine tube and lifts it up to the level of the chamber. You m ay have to slide the forend forward about half an inch but should be able to load another round into the magazine. You now have a full magazine with another round ready to be chambered by merely sliding the forend to the front.

As for your concern that the round laying on the elevator can fall out of the ejection port if the 870 is canted on its left side, it really isn't a problem if you leave the forend slid forward just so it clears the loading port. Then the front so the shell is held in place by the extractor and the curved side of the elevator. Play with it, using snap caps for safety and you will see what I mean.

Here are a couple of pictures of what I mean. Both were taken with the action slide in the same place. If you don't recognize something to the rear of the loading portit is the factory trigger lock.

[zippy13]

K-Law, my friend, what's that on your R-870, a trigger lock, or what?

Edit
Never mind, I didn't read you last line, and went directly to the pics. I shouldn't be allowed to post after midnight.

[TheKlawMan]

Hi Zippy! I am just turning in myself and am half dingy.

I would add to what I posted about loading the 870 with a full magazine plus one on the elevator, what I described may not be the safest thing since the firing pin may be alilghed with the primer and the safety of the 870 doesn't block the pin from striking the primer if, for instance, the gun was dropped. Similar to the same risk of keeping a round chambered. If that is a concern, after topping off the magazine, slide the forearm back all the way to the rear and remove the round from the receiver.

If bad stuff comes down, drop that shell into the receiver, slide the forend to the front and you have a full mag with one in the chamber.

Got to turn in and get ready for the Easter Bunny. Happy Easter!

[Sport45]

As for your concern that the round laying on the elevator can fall out of the ejection port if the 870 is canted on its left side, it really isn't a problem if you leave the forend slid forward just so it clears the loading port. Then the front so the shell is held in place by the extractor and the curved side of the elevator. Play with it, using snap caps for safety and you will see what I mean.

I like leaving the thing closed on a live shell with the magazine tube full. If the action isn't closed it's not locked. If you leave it in the condition you describe and grab it up by the barrel the action slides open ejecting the live shell.

[Bucks Gun Shop]

Gang:

For all of you with tricks on how you leave your shotgun in a "ready" state, you might look into the Shot Lock (www.shotlock.com). I don't sell them, but have purchased one for my own home. From my perspective, they allow me to have my shotgun loaded, but not have to worry about an "accident". They also are easy to operate. I can go from fully a sleep to armed and ready in 5 seconds.

Just something to think about.

[Webleymkv]

There are really just a couple of reasons that I can think of. A pump shotgun allows you to more quickly cycle the action manually if you have a misfire or prefer to keep your gun "cruiser ready" (full mag, empty chamber). A pump also allows you to shoot a wider variety of ammunition reliably without having to worry about adjusting anything. The biggest reason, however, is price. I paid a whopping $150 for my HD shotgun (a very lightly used Remington 870 Express Magnum) and I would be hard-pressed to find any halfway decent semi-auto for that even on the used market.

Honestly, it's really not something I'm all that worried about. I can shoot my pump pretty darn quick and it is not my only HD gun (I also keep a semi-auto rifle and at least one handgun loaded and ready for goblins in the wee hours of the morning). Truth be told, if the only shotgun I had for HD was my NEF single-shot 10ga, I wouldn't be all that worried.

[mavracer]

I haven't read all posts, but the big reason I use a pump as my HD shotgun is I shoot cowboy action and I shoot my 1897 more than any oother shotgun. I feel very confident with it. I am looking for a Rem modell 11 or Auto 5 to make a trench replica out of. Then I may switch them out.

[TheKlawMan]

Sport 45. I am not exactly sure what you mean, but I just check my 870, which spent the night just as depicted in those photographs. After taking the trigger lock off and checking that the safety was set, I picked it up by the barrel and even shook the 870. The action slide, the elevator, the shell, nothing budged. Lift it muzzle up by the forend and the gun is cocked with a round chambered.

[publius]

I am going to stick with my 870 that is fully loaded with a properly chambered #1 buck. As far as the pump being the best for HD? I have always thought so due to reliability and mag. capacity. I still think this is a very good choice for those who are very familiar with a pump. I have lately come to believe that an autoloader is a better choice for those who don't have thousands of rounds through a pump under their belts. today's auto's are very reliable and you only have to think about the safety and aiming. I have also that a handgun like a 1911 with a manual safety is not great for someone who is not completely comfortable with the design. DA revolver is much simpler. Botton line is that, under pressure, you don't want to have to conciously think about how to operate your weapon. I can sit here behind my keyboard and tell you honestly how fast I can clean a jam, load a mag, etc., but I cannot tell you for sure that I will remember to push the safety off on my 870 (or whatever) if I wake up in the middle of the night with some bad guys going through my closet b/c I've never been under that kind of pressure. Sorry if I turned this into Tactics&Training but that's what the pump vs. auto boils down to.

[Stevie-Ray]

I am going to stick with my 870 that is fully loaded with a properly chambered #1 buck.

That's great, but where do you get #1 buck? Man, that stuff is hard to come by, here.

00 is my stand by, since #1 is unavailable.

[Hawg]

Short barreled Win. 97 pump. Fully loaded with 00 buck with one chambered and hammer on half cock. No light, no pistol grip, no fancy shmancy bells and tacticool bullcrap. All they hear is a soft click as the hammer goes to full cock and then a boom. No slide racking, no warning. If they're in the house they don't belong there.

[10 Beers]

What, like this?

[C0untZer0]

Just Google:

Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck).
Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck).


Also a decent HD load:

Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck).

[TheKlawMan]

Wakeman says #0 0r #1 Buck: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

[publius]

I've had a bunch of #1 for years now so I haven't checked current availability. It's the best balance between pellet size and number of pellets in my opinion. 0 is my second choice. Again, I think a modern design auto is probably a better HD weapon for most. I also think a handgun w/o a safety is better. Keep it simple.