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Old March 10, 2018, 05:59 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Any legislative bill that has a 207-line TITLE should be automatically thrown out as undeserving of discussion.

Florida won't be arming any teachers. In addition to requiring 132 hours of training (I've talked to a lot of LEOs and LEO trainers about this, and the most I've heard anyone recommend was 80 hours, most thought 40 would be enough, and I think that's more than necessary), the new law also does NOT include teachers who only teach in classrooms -- which is most of them.

Quote:
336 ... excluded from participating in
337 the Coach Aaron Feis Guardian Program are individuals who
338 exclusively perform classroom duties as classroom teachers as
339 defined in s. 1012.01(2)(a). This limitation does not apply to
340 classroom teachers of a Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps
341 program, a current servicemember, as defined in s. 250.01, or a
342 current or former law enforcement officer, as defined in s.
343 943.10(1), (6), or (8).
Furthermore, it's not an option even for those few teachers who aren't excluded unless the sheriff of the jurisdiction chooses to establish the program.

The criteria to volunteer are essentially equal to what a SWAT team member gets, but these armed teachers have no law enforcement authority.

Seriously?
Quote:
343 ... The sheriff who chooses to establish the
344 program shall appoint as school guardians, without the power of
345 arrest, school employees who volunteer and who:
346 1. Hold a valid license issued under s. 790.06.
347 2. Complete 132 total hours of comprehensive firearm safety
348 and proficiency training conducted by Criminal Justice Standards
349 and Training Commission-certified instructors, which must
350 include:
351 a. Eighty hours of firearms instruction based on the
352 Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission’s Law
353 Enforcement Academy training model, which must include at least
354 10 percent but no more than 20 percent more rounds fired than
355 associated with academy training. Program participants must
356 achieve an 85 percent pass rate on the firearms training.
357 b. Sixteen hours of instruction in precision pistol.
358 c. Eight hours of discretionary shooting instruction using
359 state-of-the-art simulator exercises.
360 d. Eight hours of instruction in active shooter or
361 assailant scenarios.
362 e. Eight hours of instruction in defensive tactics.
363 f. Twelve hours of instruction in legal issues.
364 3. Pass a psychological evaluation administered by a
365 psychologist licensed under chapter 490 and designated by the
366 Department of Law Enforcement and submit the results of the
367 evaluation to the sheriff’s office. The Department of Law
368 Enforcement is authorized to provide the sheriff’s office with
369 mental health and substance abuse data for compliance with this
370 paragraph.
371 4. Submit to and pass an initial drug test and subsequent
372 random drug tests in accordance with the requirements of s.
373 112.0455 and the sheriff’s office.
374 5. Successfully complete ongoing training, weapon
375 inspection, and firearm qualification on at least an annual
376 basis.
377 6. Successfully complete at least 12 hours of a certified
378 nationally recognized diversity training program.
The Florida politicians obviously DON'T want to arm teachers, but they want to appear to have "done something" to allow teachers to be armed -- so they enacted a discretionary program, that at the whim of each county's sheriff may or may not be implemented, which if implemented by the sheriff imposes draconian, unrealistic, and totally unnecessary requirements on the volunteers. The hypocrisy behind including this in the law is mind-boggling.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 10, 2018 at 07:18 PM.
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Old March 10, 2018, 07:08 PM   #27
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
unrealistic
Most teacher receive 2-3 month paid time off throughout the year. It wouldn't seem that hard for them to attend these classes. The 132 hours is likely a one time commitment. about 16 8 hour days training. 11 12 hour days.

Quote:
Successfully complete ongoing training, weapon
375 inspection, and firearm qualification on at least an annual
376 basis.
The details of the yearly training are the important part.
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Old March 10, 2018, 07:23 PM   #28
mehavey
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Quote:
Most teacher receive 2-3 month paid time off throughout the year.
They do not.
Teachers are paid for time spent in the class only.
If they so elect, they are allowed to spread that amount over 12 months to even out monthly income.

Have you ever been a elementary, middle or secondary teacher ... particularly in a single-income family ?
Most have second and/or summer jobs just to make ends meet.

Aquila Blanca has it right.
There will be no classroom protection; and they'll continue to be sitting ducks in a shooting gallery once it starts again.



.

Last edited by mehavey; March 10, 2018 at 08:37 PM.
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Old March 11, 2018, 01:26 AM   #29
JoeSixpack
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Quote:
Most have second and/or summer jobs just to make ends meet.
Yup, Confirm, Most of the teachers I had and know had some sort of secondary income during the off months.

My Cousin was a math teacher for a few years.. He loved it but the pay is terrible after he had a few kids he had no choice but to leave, with house payments and student loans they couldn't make ends meet even though his wife also worked.
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Old March 11, 2018, 09:16 AM   #30
lockedcj7
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This is what happens when laws are written by people who have no idea what they're talking about or when good ideas are gutted by compromise. It's also what happens when laws are written quickly after a tragic event.

<rant>

I am a H.S. teacher and have been for 17 years. I am also a U.S. Army veteran and NRA instructor. I have had my CWP for almost 20 years and I can shoot. Under this law, I would not be eligible to participate even if the school district and sheriff did. If given the opportunity, I would provide my own equipment and pay for my own training. 132 hours? Bring it.

Unarmed teachers can and do confront active shooters in these situations and they often die as a result. We are taught to be "caretakers", as some have suggested, and that means we are protective of our students. Good teachers care very much about the well-being of their kids and we do get attached to them. I can't speak for all teachers, but I would use deadly force to protect the innocent in a heartbeat.

I am responsible for supervising students and ensuring their safety every minute that I am at work, whether I have a class at that moment or not. I am on duty in the halls between classes, before school, after school, and during class change. If something happens during lunch or during my planning period, I am expected to jump in. If I have a class, my first priority is to protect them. If an attacker enters my room, I am the only line of defense and I am unarmed. And that makes me angry.

About teaching:

It varies by state and I can only speak for mine. I work under a contract that requires 190 days of work for 190 days of pay. It offers virtually no protection (right-to-work state) and that's the way I like it. I do not, and will not, belong to a teacher's union. The district divides my pay into 12 equal payments and I get them via direct deposit. I have no choice in the matter. I do get 15 paid sick/personal days, which I am strongly discouraged from using. I'm not complaining, I'm only setting the record straight. I knew the rules and the realities before choosing this profession. I don't complain about the money because I realize that I only work 10 months a year with great breaks and good benefits.

</rant>
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Old March 11, 2018, 09:45 AM   #31
mehavey
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Quote:
We are taught to be "caretakers"....
Problem is.... what you describe as your mindset as being -- is sheepdog.
True sheepdogs scare the bejeezes out of the Teachers' Union types.

What I find interesting is the prohibition against the distributed defense of actual teachers being armed. Did I actually read that right ?
That pretty much leaves us w/ Admin types.

Oh yeah......
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Old March 11, 2018, 11:27 AM   #32
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey
What I find interesting is the prohibition against the distributed defense of actual teachers being armed. Did I actually read that right ?
That pretty much leaves us w/ Admin types.
To fully understand exactly who will be allowed to become a "sheepdog" under this new law we have to follow up the statutory reference, which I have not done. But it certainly appears to exclude the majority of teachers whose role is to be in a classroom and teach. This is why I regard the law as hypocritical and cynical. The politicians are taking credit for "arming teachers," while in the fine print ensuring that the majority of teachers aren't eligible for the program. And that's only [i]IF[/b] the county sheriff decides to implement the program in the first place.

IMHO, any Florida resident should read the full text of the "arm the teachers" portion of this law, and then be enraged.

[Edit to add} Chapter 790.06 is the statute establishing concealed carry permits. So to begin qualifying for this program a teacher must have (or obtain) a carry permit -- which in Florida requires training. Then they have to undergo more firearms training than a police academy cadet. (I think -- I spent a couple of hours last night trying to research exactly what the basic POST training requirement is for a rookie officer, and I didn't find it.) Just look at this part:

Quote:
Eighty hours of firearms instruction based on the
352 Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission’s Law
353 Enforcement Academy training model, which must include at least
354 10 percent but no more than 20 percent more rounds fired than
355 associated with academy training.
Program participants must
356 achieve an 85 percent pass rate on the firearms training.
What possible justification is there for requiring teachers to have to fire MORE rounds in training than police officers who will be on the streets every single day of their careers? This is insane.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 11, 2018 at 11:36 AM.
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Old March 11, 2018, 11:41 AM   #33
Aguila Blanca
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And I found the statute referenced in the exclusion, and it does mean that "teachers" will not be allowed to participate in the program.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/1012.01.html

Quote:
(2) INSTRUCTIONAL PERSONNEL.—“Instructional personnel” means any K-12 staff member whose function includes the provision of direct instructional services to students. Instructional personnel also includes K-12 personnel whose functions provide direct support in the learning process of students. Included in the classification of instructional personnel are the following K-12 personnel:
(a) Classroom teachers.—Classroom teachers are staff members assigned the professional activity of instructing students in courses in classroom situations, including basic instruction, exceptional student education, career education, and adult education, including substitute teachers.
Teachers falling under this description are specifically EXCLUDED from participating in the program.
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