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March 18, 2018, 08:59 PM | #1 |
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Are there any rifles that have no POI shift with a bayonet attached?
I've noticed that with a Lee Enfield or a Mosin attaching a bayonet shifts the POI dramatically (~8 to 10 MOA). Are there any rifles where this is minimized?
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March 18, 2018, 10:05 PM | #2 |
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Is the bullet hitting part of the bayonet?
I seldom shot my AK with the bayonet but the POI didn’t change the few times I did.
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March 19, 2018, 05:28 AM | #3 |
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Seems like mutually exclusive concerns.
There is (for some reason) such a thing as rail mounted bayonets. I'd imagine one of those would do the trick. |
March 19, 2018, 05:56 AM | #4 |
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Adding that much weight to the muzzle could easily change the barrel harmonics. If nothing else, putting the weight so far out front will change the recoil movement and move POI.
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March 19, 2018, 09:47 AM | #5 |
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Never experimented with it but in theory a German K98k should have less, because if the bayonet has no contact with the barrel. There is no barrel ring on the bayonet, and the weight should be entirely held by the stock.
The weight would also affect how the rifle moves under recoil, which will change POI, so there will be a change. How much would need some testing. |
March 19, 2018, 11:25 AM | #6 |
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If there's no contact between the bullet and bayonet, Mobuck may have nailed it.
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March 19, 2018, 11:45 AM | #7 |
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"...a Lee-Enfield..." That depends on which rifle you have. The bayonet on a No. 4 attaches directly onto the barrel. On a No. 1 Rifle it does not. The No. 4's, at 13.5 ounces, will cause the barrel to be pulled down a tiny bit causing the POI to change.
"...Is the bullet hitting part of the bayonet?..." If it did there'd be a catastrophic failure. Bullets do not bounce off bayonets.
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March 19, 2018, 11:54 AM | #8 |
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Must be one heck of a POI shift to notice it at bayonet range.
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March 19, 2018, 02:38 PM | #9 |
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Both my 10/22s are ok with the bayonets attached.
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March 19, 2018, 07:44 PM | #10 |
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Pete LOL. !
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March 19, 2018, 09:51 PM | #11 |
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The result can vary between individual rifles, some showing a lot of shift, some showing little, or even none, but its an individual thing. There is no class, or model where one can say positively that the impact will not shift when the bayonet is fixed.
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March 20, 2018, 12:06 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
As others have noted, hanging a heavy weight on the barrel will change harmonics and cause the barrel to droop.
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March 20, 2018, 12:48 AM | #13 |
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I dont think it has anything to do with where the bayonet is mounted, I think it has to do with the a difference in air pressure/gas expansion hitting the bayonet as the bullet leaves the barrel.
I think the smaller and more narrow the bayonet, the less effect it is going to have.
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March 20, 2018, 05:02 AM | #14 |
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Mobuck nailed it
The barrel harmonics can change. I think the weight of the bayonet has a definite impact.
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March 20, 2018, 11:00 AM | #15 | |
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Quote:
its the size & weight of the device, changing how the barrel vibrates. ANY thing that changes the way the barrel vibrates can produce a change in the POI. Match shooters know that using a tight sling hold will change the POI, and strive to make their tight sling shooting as repeatable as possible. Simply resting the barrel (not the stock) on a tree limb for support will change the POI. The amount of change may or may not be drastic enough to affect your shooting, but there's almost always a change.
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March 21, 2018, 08:41 AM | #16 |
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Harmonics....
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March 21, 2018, 01:21 PM | #17 | |
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Quote:
However, the weight of the bayonet, like adding a suppressor, causes barrel droop, hence why the shots will normally be lower when you add a weight to the end of the barrel.
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March 21, 2018, 01:34 PM | #18 |
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I haven't a clue what that answer is but I suspect anything you hang on the end of the barrel will have an effect. In the military they are not installed unless it's gonna be close contact, very close. In that case I doubt the thing will effect the accuracy enough to make a difference.
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March 21, 2018, 01:49 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
Adding weight changes the moment (torque) altering the vibrational characteristics of the barrel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdwN5qlWMVA |
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March 21, 2018, 01:56 PM | #20 | |
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Even a sniper rifle in a suppressed configuration is a close range weapon system. |
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April 17, 2018, 02:14 PM | #21 |
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I duck taped a kitchen knife to my 22 and didn't see difference in POI. I guess I'll try duck tapping 2 kitchen knives to it and test later.
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April 17, 2018, 03:14 PM | #22 |
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I shoot a friends Polish M44 Nagant quite often,,,
I shoot a friends Polish M44 Nagant quite often,,,
It's not the most precise shooter in any case. But the groups do get quite larger with the bayonet extended. I have another buddy with a Chinese SKS,,, He says if you extend the bayonet on that rifle,,, You are very fortunate indeed if you can hit the ground. Just saying,,, Aarond .
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April 18, 2018, 12:24 PM | #23 | |
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They had it attached all the time, they didn't even issue scabbards. |
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April 18, 2018, 12:41 PM | #24 |
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What Mobuck says. It changes the harmonics; especially if there's looseness between the bayonet and the mount.
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April 18, 2018, 03:03 PM | #25 |
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"...don't think it has anything to do with where the bayonet is mounted..." It's absolutely due to where the weight is. Putting the bayonet on an original M-16 actually bent the barrels with the weight.
"...air pressure/gas expansion hitting the bayonet..." There's not enough resistance from the mass a knife blade to do any such thing. "...Suppressors are a close range accessory..." Suppressors are not a normal issue thing at all. You cannot suppress supersonic ammo.
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