|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
November 20, 2018, 04:09 PM | #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
Again, nothing I stated said call the police if someone yells at you. I explicitly stated the opposite. If you don't want to call the police you always have the option of, wait for it, not calling the police. I'm merely explaining what I would do. As for wasting tax dollars, well they're my dollars. I feel okay calling. I don't advise for the lowest common denominator. Just because some people can't apply common sense doesn't mean all of us can't.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
November 20, 2018, 04:28 PM | #52 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,819
|
Tunnelrat, my comments were not directed specifically at you, but as a general statement.
|
November 20, 2018, 04:51 PM | #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
Right, but seeing as I am one of those people in the general audience, I'll give my general response .
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
November 20, 2018, 04:51 PM | #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 668
|
Road Rage or just jerk?
Quote:
It will have been said already. Call the police IMMEDIATELY. Don’t stop at your house. Stop where witnesses are. You don’t want to shoot anyone. So that is good. I am getting a dash cam for this kind of stuff now. It happens more than you think. But he wasn’t breaking any laws as far as I’m aware. So why cops? My concern is that he was like that moron who shot the guy over the parking space incident not that long ago. So he was probably packing as well. Some people are total morons. I’d rather involve the police and get listed as the victim first. My ex gave someone the finger one time when he passed us on a double yellow line (second time she did that). He jammed on brakes and jumped out of the car. I pulled my firearm and had it low down so he couldn’t see. She FREAKED out and I told her...don’t ever instigate. I don’t want to put someone down because he is a blank who couldn’t control himself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by stonewall50; November 20, 2018 at 04:56 PM. |
|
November 21, 2018, 08:37 AM | #55 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 19, 2008
Location: SE PA
Posts: 336
|
I wonder why everyone assumes that the OP would have a direct line to the local police cruiser. I think that a call to 911 will start off with the 911 operator trying to determine what the situation may be before notifying a policeman on patrol or calling the SWAT team. They may have questions and even useful advice for the caller. I don't see anything wrong with that.
__________________
Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash) |
November 21, 2018, 11:31 AM | #56 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
Quote:
Im not sure I understand the sarcasm. Its generally assumed that a call to police will begin with a dispatcher/call taker.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... |
|
November 21, 2018, 11:42 AM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
|
Guys.....Calling 911 is to document what's going on in the event things escalate.
|
November 21, 2018, 01:57 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 668
|
|
November 21, 2018, 03:08 PM | #59 |
Member
Join Date: August 24, 2016
Posts: 85
|
Whatever you do - don't shoot anyone unless they are shooting at you and even then you have to evade. - Don't call 911 unless it's absolutely necessary. Nothing pi$$e$ cops off more than to get called out over some petty argument or because somebody looks at you wrong. Use common sense and talk your way out of a confrontation. Never rely on a gun to resolve an issue.
|
November 21, 2018, 03:19 PM | #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
|
Quote:
|
|
November 22, 2018, 11:54 AM | #61 | |
Member
Join Date: January 7, 2014
Posts: 85
|
Quote:
I would define road rage as any action taken in retaliation to somebody else's (perceived) poor driving behavior that is intended to disturb them in any way. This includes honking the horn, display of the middle finger, cutting off, brake checking etc. The VAST majority of road rage incidents are short lived and result in no real harm being done, and I am not saying that 911 needs to be called every time somebody honks the horn at you or yells at you. However when somebody begins following you, the behavior has escalated beyond just a brief outburst. If you wait until the situation further escalates with some sort of immediate threat, you will likely not have the capacity to call 911, and it is highly unlikely police will be able to respond in time to assist you in dealing with that threat. Again, this is just my personal advice, people are free to deal with situations as they see fit. I simply feel its important not to discourage people from calling 911. Unreasonable people are going to continue to call 911 for stupid reasons as long as phones exist, and police are going to respond (most of the time). So if you, as a reasonable and level headed person who doesn't call 911 a dozen times a year, feel you need assistance, just call. |
|
November 22, 2018, 12:13 PM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
some people have no idea how quickly bad things can unfold and how easily the opportunity to call for assistance can evaporate. Too many people seem to feel like danger is something that develops in an expected, convenient and easily forecastable manner. A call for assistance should occur sooner rather than later.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... |
November 22, 2018, 07:05 PM | #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,819
|
Ton, given the OP's description of the scenario, would you arrest the "jerk", based upon what is written? In your professional opinion, were laws broken? Was there a legitimate threat or PC for arrest??? I thought the OP handled the situation fine, without calling for the calvary. How would you have responded had a call been made? Based upon what was written.... what more could one do then TALK to both parties, run BOTH for warrants, look for weapons, substance use, verify registration and insurance etc., give them a play nice speach and send them off? Right?
|
November 22, 2018, 07:38 PM | #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
Given what has been described, I would be willing the figuratively bet that TON would not have arrested anyone for anything but that is not the point. I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. I am not sure it really matters how a LEO is going to handle it or if the person is ultimately arrested.
If a person is following me, my concern is about my safety and mitigating the potential for my pursuer to confront me. I am not concerned with whether or not he is arrested or convicted with a crime. I don't want a crime to happen.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... |
November 22, 2018, 07:41 PM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
^ this. Not every call to the police has to result in an arrest.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
November 23, 2018, 11:23 AM | #66 | |
Member
Join Date: January 7, 2014
Posts: 85
|
Quote:
Was there a legitimate threat? Well, somebody engaged in a course of conduct that caused the OP to not feel comfortable going home, so yes, I would say the OP perceived a threat. I would also say that's the perception is reasonable. Being followed for miles by an unknown person is intimidating, and generally the intent behind following somebody for miles is to intimidate. To top if all off, unreasonable behavior like this is often a symptom of other issues, such as drug use, etc. But again, all of that is beside the point and not what you should really be concerned about. If you wait to call 911 until somebody rams you, tries to yank you out of your car at a stop light, smashes your windows with a bat, or fires rounds at the back of your car (all of which I've seen happen in incidents like this), you are not going to have the opportunity. An immediate threat is going to necessitate some sort of immediate action, which could easily result in injuries. A call to 911 at the beginning of the incident could have not only prevented that, but is more than likely going to stand strong on your side in the aftermath during the criminal and civil proceedings. Again, a large part of what law enforcement does is crime prevention. Police responding to and defusing a situation before a crime actually occurs does not constitute a waste of time or resources. |
|
November 23, 2018, 12:52 PM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,819
|
You didn't answer my question, just provided new questions in your response. Again... based upon the written description in the OP... do you believe there was PC to arrest?
|
November 23, 2018, 01:05 PM | #68 |
Member
Join Date: January 7, 2014
Posts: 85
|
That's because a single post in a public forum does not constitute a criminal investigation. Asking me if there was PC for arrest is like texting your doctor when you have a sore throat and asking him to reply with a diagnosis.
|
November 23, 2018, 02:05 PM | #69 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
Quote:
The word "threat" is hugely broad.. A legitimate threat of [what]? … the previously quoted statute said something like "imminent bodily harm". Is that the threat you are speaking of- or is it something else. Please be specific. Threat by what standard... statutory? common language? Verbal? Physical? Direct? Indirect? Intentional? Unintentional? Implied?
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; November 23, 2018 at 02:11 PM. |
|
November 23, 2018, 06:05 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,819
|
And... there is my answer.
|
November 23, 2018, 07:58 PM | #71 |
Member
Join Date: January 7, 2014
Posts: 85
|
Shurshot, you are free to do as you wish. Probable cause is an investigatory status developed through the discovery of pertinent facts by law enforcement which creates reasonable grounds to believe a crime was committed and a specific individual committed it. This can only be done through a proper investigation.
Probable cause is not required to affect a lawful detention for the purpose of conducting an investigation. Reasonable suspicion is, and it is a lower standard than probable cause. An allegation of criminal or possible criminal activity, which this would have been had the OP called 911, would have created the reasonable suspicion needed for an officer to detain the other driver to conduct an investigation. If the allegations made were substantiated, and the OP wished to assist in prosection for disorderly conduct, a class 1 misdemeanor in my state, I do believe probable cause for an arrest would have existed. A classic example of reasonable suspicion is the guy walking through the parking lot with a backpack on looking in car windows. Illegal in and of itself? No, but a contact by law enforcement will likely prevent a vehicle burglary from occurring, and may result in solving past vehicle burglaries. To bring this back to the original topic and reiterate what I previously said, if an unknown person is following you in a vehicle, the best course of action is to just call 911. No, you don't have to and you will more than likely be fine. Just like you don't have to get out of the pool during a lightning storm and you'll more than likely be fine. But if disaster does strike, you are going to #1 be on your own during a violent confrontation, #2 be asked repeatedly why you didn't call 911 during the subsequent criminal investigation, and #3 be blasted with the same question during the very likely subsequent lawsuit, at which point that fact is going to carry alot of weight. Again, each person is entitled to do as he or she sees fit. I am simply trying to offer some friendly advice that one should not be afraid to call for help for fear of wasting someone's time. I've responded to hundreds of road rage calls (maybe more). VERY few of them escalate into physical violence or amount to anything. However, a few of them do, and it's not worth gambling on. |
November 23, 2018, 09:14 PM | #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,819
|
Ton,
Thank you for the definition of PC and RS, although I am already quite familiar with them. I was hoping for your perspective on the OP, based on what was written, as you stated you are a LEO. Yes, I agree, if one has legitimate fear of imminent harm, they should not hesitate to call 911. I'm just getting more cynical of human nature as I grow longer in the tooth and I hate to see the 911 system potentialy abused. Last edited by shurshot; November 24, 2018 at 04:51 AM. |
November 24, 2018, 04:25 PM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 19, 2008
Location: SE PA
Posts: 336
|
Actually, this is a late response to Fireforged. I was not being sarcastic. Those against calling the police seem to be implying that the call will take a patrolman off an important case in order to respond to the "I'm being followed" call. I was pointing out that the call would go to the 911 operator/dispatcher who would probably ask questions and decide whether the situation merits direct intervention. Also, as someone else pointed out, it does document that you are the complainant in case the situation does escalate. I don't see the harm in that.
When I'm being sarcastic, look for emoticons and such. I did not use any such things in my post.
__________________
Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash) |
November 24, 2018, 05:25 PM | #74 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; November 24, 2018 at 06:06 PM. |
||
December 2, 2018, 01:08 PM | #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 12, 2010
Posts: 227
|
Some people are just TOO anxious to get all macho in situations like this, and actually are doing the same thing as the perpetrator. You never know who you're dealing with in these situations. I would just deflect him and go on about my business: "oh, yeah, I know, I'm sorry about that, sir, I apologize." Of course, if he wants to press it beyond that point, that's another matter. Nobody's standing there with a clipboard evaluating your freaking manhood.
I remember my CHL teacher, a retired LEO, talking about gun forums. He said, "these guys on these internet forums, they've got these guns, and <laughs> you can tell, they're just itching to shoot somebody...." Some of these threads remind me of him. Last edited by Ruark; December 2, 2018 at 01:13 PM. |
|
|