Price too high, rules too stringent

[FITASC]

Double Naught - big +1!

[reynolds357]

Yes sir, not about having made wrong decisions. Quite to the contrary, I’ve come a long way from where I’ve come from. Parents divorced when I was 9 and my mother declared war on my father and made my life hell. She spoiled me with letting me do things I’d have never done if my father was able to play a larger part of me. I wasn’t spoiled with monetary things, just let me go wild. I never got out of the 9th grade, but when I was 17 and quit, my father promptly made sure I had a drivers license and GED. I tried like hell to get into the Army at 22 yrs old but because I had quit school and because I was arrested twice for city charges (never been to county jail) I had to get a waiver for the school thing and then again for the arrest record, which I got, and then took the ASVAB and physical and was waiting on a ship date when Jan 1 of ‘94 rolled around and as of that moment no non-grads were let in. Two months later I began a 15 month Aviation Maintenance school which culminated in me becoming an FAA licensed A&P Mechanic. I’m now just turned 47 and I’ve been working at a well known Firearms store for a year now because I had a lower back ALIF fusion surgery and a hand condition called Dupuytren’s Contracture where my fingers curl up into my palm. I had the first one cut out at 41 yrs old and I’ve had 7 others surgically removed since then. It’s recurring and it’s exasperated by working with my hands and so I was having a surgery per year right when that IDIOT obama screwed up healthcare and every penny I could save in a year was being spent so I could get my keys out of my front pocket! I live in a 5 yr old $250,000 home, I have a sweet ‘72 Corvette LT1 and a little Boston Whaler on the side of my house. Now that my kids are old enough to hunt I want to pass on our awesome National traditions to my kids and flat can’t afford those prices.

Now, if the person that said that stupid stuff thinks I should have chose better he can go get bent and pound sand! There’s another thing that happens in Texas. Folks like that can very easily find themselves on their backs staring up into the sky wondering who just knocked the S*** out of them...

I hope your hands get better. I am sure that is frustrating. I guess we all have choices. I am guessing your vette and Whaler probably cost about what my hunting land did.

[jfruser]

Hunting in Texas is different, even outside the lack of public land. Y'all who have not lived or hunted here really have no idea just HOW different--and how what is unethical or illegal outside of Texas is just SOP here. It takes time & effort to absorb the paradigm shift.

Toss in the lack of public land and you see folk from elsewhere get really frustrated, really fast. Pile on top of that all the whining and moaning and carrying on about feral hog damage by the land owners while they simultaneously display a lack of willingness to work with prospective feral hog hunters(1). Enough to make folk from the other 49 states wonder "Whiskey tango foxtrot? None of this is making a lick of sense." Not helped by the Texas "I got mine, F-you" crowd.

I have come to my own accommodation with Texas's perversity when it comes to hunting. First off, I don't indulge in a hunting lease. After all, I only have .mil experience, a STEM degree, have risen to the top of my industry the last 20 years, and make a multiple of the median income(2). I hunt in Texas on occasion, as reasonably priced opportunities pop up. But most of my hunting has been out of state, as it is much more economical to drive 1000 miles elsewhere and hunt for a week than do so inside Texas's borders. I am sure some of ya'll outside Texas have heard of the exotic game ranches here? Well, it is cheaper to travel to Africa, pay the licences, fees, air travel, etc. and bag your exotic in Africa than to hunt exotics in Texas. I have hunted the few public lands in Texas and will not so waste my time and money again on such.

In many other states there was/is a broad swath of society ranging from working class up on through the affluent who can afford to and do hunt. This makes for a broad hunting culture, anchored in the middle class and middle class values(3). Again, Texas is different. Texas takes its lead from Mexico, in that there is a statum at the top of the population that can afford to hunt or are connected by blood/marriage to the land owning class--and then the huge majority that will not ever afford it. This makes for more of a narrow "I got mine, F-you" hunting culture and a lot of folk who are indifferent as they will never be part of it(4).

One last thing a hunter from the other 49 states has to realize is that the tease of feral hog hunting is mostly that: a tease. Y'all need to dismiss it and move on. Once you realize it is nothing more than a tease and mostly illusory, you'll be less frustrated by the dichotomy of, "Oh, woe is me, look at all the damage done to my land by these feral hogs!" followed by either a rebuff of your offer to help out or a "Sure you can help out, but pay me $500 for the first day's hunt and remember it is BYONOD(5)." See, you're either known by them/theirs personally, a cash cow to be milked, or potentially one of those yahoos who will do even more damage and put them at risk(6).

So get over it. No matter how many hog-damage sob stories you read, you're not going to get the opportunity to hammer hogs on the cheap in Texas. Cheaper than hunting deer in Texas, perhaps, but not cheap. And in the end you're either blood, a cash cow, or a dangerous yahoo, so "F-you, I got mine."






(1) Understandable, given the Litigious States of America. In exchange, though, could we have less whining about feral hog damage, then? My Tiniest Violin needs a rest every once in a while.

(2) You're not taking your family (F, M, 2 kids) hunting here unless you have serious money (not mere UMC) to throw around or you were born/married into local land-owner circles. On the surface is hospitality, but below that is clannishness, distrust, etc. Also remember, the public schools are overrun and have become pits of despair so you get to pay for private school in addition to eye-popping property taxes for single family homes while ag land pays a pittance. Other posters have written about priorities & choices, well here you go: to hunt or to educate your kids is but one of many. Make your choice and live with it.

(3) Think "The Deer Hunter," but without all the Vietnam, POW camps, Russian Roulette and Christopher Walken blowing his brains out in the end.

(4) The narrow hunting base/culture here in Texas has persisted for a while (see the money spent at Cabela's), but I think we are beginning to see its end as non-Norteno latins fill up the state and completely alien folks (yankee, foreign, muslim, etc) stuff the urban areas. Texas ain't gonna "turn blue" as quick as the politicos think/hope, but eventually the indifferent-to-hostile non-hunting majority will eat the hunting culture alive, just for fun. See the UK and their hunting bans/humiliation of the hunting class.

(5) "Bring Your Own Night Observation Devices"

(6) Seems like the only folk who know how to erect a fence in the state of Texas are those running the high-fence exotic hunting ranches. Those are wired down tight. If the rest would learn how to erect and maintain barbed/hog/hot wire fencing, the land-owners' hog problems would be attenuated quite a bit. As it is, slovenly fencing practices are the rule. Compare that to fencing up north, where they manage to mostly keep livestock--to include hogs--contained by means of well-maintained fencing. "It's a mystery." My sympathy for the Texas Land Owners' Lament has withered over time.

[Roamin_Wade]

Amazing, at first I made poor decisions and now I have too much opulence and I need to sell one of my toys or just shut up about it. This is quickly becoming a lot like talking to a democrat. No matter what someone says or means they just spin it in their own direction.

The reason I was ticketed in the camp on public land is because of a technical public hunting law where one isn't supposed to have a rifle out of the case, period.

[FITASC]

What you have is not enough desire to make it happen and you came here wanting validation for your angst - and when you didn't get it; well, you got hit with a variety of opinions. I mentioned several times to go out of state; what's wrong with a road trip and time spent bonding with your kids?

[reynolds357]

Amazing, at first I made poor decisions and now I have too much opulence and I need to sell one of my toys or just shut up about it. This is quickly becoming a lot like talking to a democrat. No matter what someone says or means they just spin it in their own direction.

Well, read your own posts.
First, You don't have enough money to hunt. Then, you have plenty of money and start naming off high priced toys you own.

[taylorce1]

What you have is not enough desire to make it happen and you came here wanting validation for your angst - and when you didn't get it; well, you got hit with a variety of opinions.

Well said, it is all about desire and making your own opportunities.

[Art Eatman]

If more than 50% of your income is from your farming or ranching, you qualify for an agricultural exemption (low evaluation) on your land. Texas is not alone in this. And, FWIW, ag land evaluations are similar in south Georgia.

jfruser, I don't care how you build a fence, it won't stop hogs. They'll root under the bottom barbed-wire strand of sheep-and-goat fence. And all it takes is a gully-washer rain to give them a freebie.

What it amounts to, overall, is that as the population grows, city folks are at a disadvantage for hunting opportunity. Economics 101: Fixed amount of acreage with increasing demand forces an increase in price.

[reynolds357]

I don't care how you build a fence, it won't stop hogs. They'll root under the bottom barbed-wire strand of sheep-and-goat fence. And all it takes is a gully-washer rain to give them a freebie.

A guy I shoot with did it, but he has more time and money than he has sense.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Art Eatman

What it amounts to, overall, is that as the population grows, city folks are at a disadvantage for hunting opportunity. Economics 101: Fixed amount of acreage with increasing demand forces an increase in price.

I used to have over 50,000 acres of huntable private land for deer and pronghorn that I had access to just for the asking. However, things change old farmers and ranches pass on the places get sold or people offer stupid amounts of money for hunting rights and my access has dried up to less than 8,000 acres. I know it sounds like a lot of land but you might be lucky to have 5-10 mule deer on the property during season, pronghorn are almost always there but not in great numbers every year.

You usually pay by the animal out where I grew up. I know one ranch that I used to have access to gets $1,200 for every buck and $800 per doe pronghorn, and last I heard $3000 for buck mule deer still only $800 per doe. If you need a landowner voucher because you didn't draw for that area that tacks several hundred more into the price of the hunt. I don't really blame people for trying to get extra income any way they can, I just try and manage what I still have the best way I can to be successful.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by taylorce1

Well said, it is all about desire and making your own opportunities.

......and IMHO, what the Op's opening post was about. Folks are here criticizing and belittling his choices. First it was that he was poor and could not afford to do the things he wanted because of the poor choices he made earlier in life. Once folks found out that he could well afford it, the chastising again focused on poor choices. But poor to whom? Just as folks were quick to assume the OP was trailer trash, they now are quick to say choosing between hunting and something else is a poor decision. Without knowing anything else about him but that he cannot justify paying big bucks for a Texas lease. I for one would have loved for my kids to enjoy everything there was in life......but time and monies dictated that not to be. So we did everything we could in the time we had and our within our budget. That's where I see the OP at. If he truly valued hunting in Texas at $2500 for a lease, I'm thinkin' he would. It seems he rather pay that and hunt somewhere else. I spend monies every year for food plots, planting trees and habitat enhancement for deer/turkey hunting. For what I spend, I could probably go to Canada every year and easily shoot a much larger buck from a blind some outfitter put up out in the boonies and baited all year for hunters. Some will tell me it's a poor choice in life, because I can't justify the Canada thing. So be it. My choices....not theirs.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by buck460XVR

and IMHO, what the Op's opening post was about. Folks are here criticizing and belittling his choices. First it was that he was poor and could not afford to do the things he wanted because of the poor choices he made earlier in life. Once folks found out that he could well afford it, the chastising again focused on poor choices. But poor to whom? 

I don't think I ever criticized the OP, for his choices. I did offer a suggestion. However, all he did was continue his rant so I pretty much stayed out of it. The OP has to decide how important it is to him to get his kids in to deer hunting, and that is all I'm saying.

[Roamin_Wade]

Look, I grew up going to my fathers deer lease that was PROPERLY ran. By that I mean that the deer stands were kept in good shape by everyone going up there in September of every year and making sure that they were safe. I don’t like this BS where you have YOUR stand and you have a lock on it and nobody else can hunt it. The stands were decided by a hand of poker or if necessary, a flip of a coin. This “new” way cuts down from having, say, a thousand acres collectively, to having just five acres.
As far as affording these huge prices, that’s why I have a boat. It’s a 1973 Boston Whaler, 13 feet long with a 35 Evinrude, that is in decent shape. I enjoy fishing and it’s affordable. Having children, I was hoping that by the time in their life that they could hunt, I’d be able to afford something to take them hunting but life has dealt me a hand that is preventing that because I don’t make near the money I used to. I could very easily file for disability but I can’t stand the thought of that so now I work at a retail place making very little and RIGHT NOW is the time that the kids can hunt and I just can’t afford it right now. I’m not going to sell my boat to go hunting. The Corvette cost as much as a new Honda Accord, I paid around $24,000 for it.
The price of hunting like it is right now is a joke. I could take them on a “canned hunt” but that’s really not hunting as much as it is just choosing which deer out of 20 that are high fenced in to a place.
As I supposed in the beginning, it’s just aggravating but, alas, so is life. Like I said, I just wanted to vent. I guess some folks are so tense that when they see a post like this they can’t help themselves from critiquing the thing so whatever.

Thanks to those that were understanding and not judgemental towards me...

[Double Naught Spy]

Well thank God at least you weren't judgemental toward Texas property owners, the people of Houston and surrounding countries, or the 'dumbass rednecks' beyond those boundaries. Entitlement is a burden to bear.

[stagpanther]

Well thank God at least you weren't judgemental toward Texas property owners, the people of Houston and surrounding countries, or the 'dumbass rednecks' beyond those boundaries. Entitlement is a burden to bear.

I lived in Texas for a while--left cause the banjo music started bothering me.

[jfruser]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

A guy I shoot with did it, but he has more time and money than he has sense.

Or is it just a matter of...priorities?

======================

Plenty of other states raise hogs, yet have no feral hog infestation.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/our.../sa-fs-history

Looks like the problem started in the southernmost states and has been steadily moving northward.

Also looks like some counties that had infestation, managed to eliminate them in the 2004-2016 time frame. This may be a result of small numbers of hogs and random chance, though. Or politics that reward not finding feral hogs. "No, siree Bob, no feral hogs wolves mountain lions invasive or inconvenient critters here."

And fencing, while not a cure-all, is the #1 means suggested to control feral hogs
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/our...age-the-damage

Fencing can be installed to exclude feral swine from crops; electric fencing has proven effective in some cases, but may become cost prohibitive for fencing large areas. Traditional fencing paired with habitat modification (clearing of underbrush along fence line) can also be an effective means for excluding feral swine. However, feral swine are strong, clever, and if motivated or agitated can destroy most fences, which should be considered during construction.

Pretty much what my new-ish neighbor from E Texas told me. He saw the hotwire I ran on the inside of my fence to keep the dogs and and we started chatting. He used hogwire+several hotwires to keep them off his land and keep his animals on the right side of the fence. He kept them up and the brush off them. He laughed a bit at my solar-powered charger and said he used a big ol' AC-powered unit.

[thallub]

The state of Oklahoma went from having few or no hogs in 1982 to being totally infested with hogs today. That happened because:

1. The introduction of Eurasian boars.

2. The deliberate relocation of hogs into previously hog free areas.

3. The proliferation of non fenced/inadequately hog hunting "ranches".

[stagpanther]

Lots of "hog hunt gone wild" businesses played their part in the spread as well--maybe even a primary role.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Roamin_Wade

RIGHT NOW is the time that the kids can hunt and I just can’t afford it right now. I’m not going to sell my boat to go hunting. The Corvette cost as much as a new Honda Accord, I paid around $24,000 for it. 

There are a lot of different types of leases in TX, you're going to have to shop around. You do realize that Corvette is almost 10 years worth of deer lease at $2500 a gun from your OP. So I got to ask is it more important to keep a car that isn't practical for your family or build memories with your kids?

Keeping the boat I can understand spending time fishing with your family, but the car is for you. If you were thinking of your family you would have bought a Honda Accord. It isn't like you can hitch up your boat to a Corvette and load the family up for a day of fishing. If you want to take the kids deer hunting, it is something only you are capable of doing for them.

I can understand where you're coming from as I had a short term disability from a very serious injury back in 2015-16, but I didn't have a paycheck for a full year. That was a tough year, we lived on savings and finally I had to pull from my retirement. I'm back to work now, but I'll never be 100% luckily my injury doesn't affect my work much. My family and I had to make tough decisions and do without a lot of things, it's just something you do in that situation.

[thallub]

Lots of "hog hunt gone wild" businesses played their part in the spread as well--maybe even a primary role.

Yes, they did. Shady hog doggers and pay to hunt outfits bought hogs at stock sales and turned them loose. i trapped and hunted down dozens of younger hogs that looked like dirty show pigs.

[Blindstitch]

Bet the OP didn't expect this thread to get derailed so much. So the guy has a $24,000 car. Don't you think the guys wife mentioned hey pork chops are on sale for $1.79 a pound right now. Sell the corvette and we can buy over 13,000 pounds of meat.

Then who cares about hunting and take your kids and a uhaul with you and bond over loading meat.

Oh wait that's a dumb idea. Maybe we can find other suggestions for how the guy might pass on the hunting tradition.

[Art Eatman]

Ehh...Seems like enough drifting and grumping for one thread.