Walther PPS Classic Major Safety Issue

[Ace_Breaker]

So, I own a "First Edition" PPS Classic, gray frame. The weapon has a system called QuickSafe, "safety redefined", the striker assembly is decocked when the backstop is removed. The backstrap supposedly doubles as a "key" to make the gun safe. I have never had a decocker fire a gun accidentally. I will cut to the chase. On Thanksgiving Day I was showing a relative my PPS and told them about the QuickSafe function. When I pulled the backstop off, the weapon fired. No fingers on the trigger and universal firearms safety rules had been followed. Yes, there are damages but nobody hurt. In retrospect I should have unloaded the weapon, but in my mind QuickSafe becomes useless if you already unload the weapon. As in, I would never unload then take off backstraps before leaving the weapon in my vehicle. I wrote Walther and have yet to hear back. Wonder if they will even respond since our last interaction years ago was horrible...Online shows a lot of people having issues with the backstrap coming loose and disabling the weapon. I would hate to think people could be out there, hit the backstrap, and it firing like mine did. Will see what Walther says...

[sigarms228]

I wonder how the firing pin block safety, and the trigger safety were disabled? That is two safeties that would have to malfunction in order for the pistol to discharge if there was no pressure applied to the trigger itself.

Yes you should have removed the magazine and ejected the cartridge in the chamber before doing anything like that with other people around as that is the only way for sure to prevent an ND/AD.

[Ace_Breaker]

Exactly, hence my absolutely thinking it was safe to take off the back strap with no issues. They literally sell this as a way to make the gun safe. I just tested the gun (unloaded) and it does fire every time when I remove the back strap. Nothing is even touching the trigger, but it does pull all the way back when the strap is removed as if it is fired. The firing pin is being released and hit the pencil I put in there, throwing it out of the barrel. When I look closely at the trigger safety I notice that the safety extends out from the trigger but not enough to do the job. Maybe the spring is part of the issue. I have carried a PPS for many years, now but I am afraid to carry this any longer. I have probably owned 15 Walther models over the years and this one worries me. No word from Walther yet.

[Jabski]

I had one when they first came out. Really liked that gun, and liked the paddle release. Ended up trading it for a PM9 and cash. I hated to get rid of it, as it was a tack driver, but I wanted the Kahr more at the time.
Wish I would have kept it, but knowing my luck, I would have had the same freak accident as you.
Glad no one was hurt…

[sigarms228]

The Walther PPS manual warns to make sure the handgun is unloaded before changing/removing the backstrap. I don't think Walther intended the backstrap to be used as a decocker like an external lever operated one in other pistols to change trigger action from SA to DA. I think they meant it as a way to disable the PPS from being fired at all (even if loaded and slide racked again) without the backstrap by unauthorized people including children and thieves. I am not sure how the whole decock thing happens when the backstrap is removed and possibly your pistol is malfunctioning, especially since you seem to indicate the trigger safety is not working. Thankfully you made sure it was not pointing at anybody when you demonstrated.

From Walther PPS manual page 23.
http://www.indaginibalistiche.it/utl...her_pps_EN.pdf

REPLACING THE BACKSTRAP

The PPS features WALTHER’s QuickSafeTM technology. By removing the backstrap
from the frame, the striker assembly is de-cocked and the pistol is incapable of firing.

WARNING: MAKE SURE THE HANDGUN IS UNLOADED BEFORE
CHANGING THE BACKSTRAP.

• If the backstrap currently on your pistol does not fit your hand comfortably,
you can install one of a different size and shape. Backstrap sizes S and L are
included. Press the latch at the bottom of the backstrap (Figure 23.1) and
remove the backstrap from the grip. (Figure 23.2) Take the current backstrap
off the handgun and replace it with the appropriate insert.

• Align index markings and push the backstrap up and towards the grip in a
continuous motion. (Figure 23.3) The backstrap installs easily, be careful not
to apply excessive force. (Figure 23.4)

[wild cat mccane]

I don't think I ever read of this in the Walther forum. As someone said, it has a trigger dingus and a firing pin block where part 26 is the decocker only.

[Ace_Breaker]

Wrote Walther a second time and they responded in minutes saying they wanted me to send the gun in. I appreciate the quick response!!

[Ace_Breaker]

Update, Walther does not want to return the PPS to me. They offered me an M2, which I already own. I asked for a PDP compact 4” and they accepted. Looking forward to trying it out!

[wild cat mccane]

There is a shop online selling the M1/Classic PPS right now (which is really odd)...

But either your Walther was truly broken and they didn't have one to replace it. That's scary. Part 26 shouldn't cause a fire regardless of the manual stating to have it unloaded.

Scary.

[Ace_Breaker]

Exactly my point. It should not have fired and clearly had safety issues. To those who say it should have been unloaded. From now on I will always drive with both hands on the steering wheel I promise!

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Ace_Breaker

Exactly my point. It should not have fired and clearly had safety issues. To those who say it should have been unloaded. From now on I will always drive with both hands on the steering wheel I promise!

I think you’re being a bit flippant. It’s not always possible to drive with both hands. It’s generally possible to unload a firearm before handling it with someone else. I say this as someone that wasn’t always as careful as he could be and had a negligent discharge. It was an unfortunate lesson, but one positive I took from it was a greater sense of safety awareness. Even if you wanted to demonstrate the safety feature you can do that without a round chambered (you’ll hear the striker release if the safety feature failed).

I’m glad Walther replaced it for you, as regardless of my previous comment it was a flawed product. I’m kind of surprised they replaced it with an even more expensive product, I don’t know if most manufacturers would do that.


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[R_P_K_]

Wow, unsafe gun handling. That's not a Walther issue. I've had one fur years and have never heard of one failing because of the backstrap design. Just pick the size grip you want and leave it alone. Just clear the mag and chamber and field strip it just like you would a Glock. Sounds like the Alec Baldwin defense to me. That trigger was pulled

[Bill DeShivs]

I have been working on guns for over 50 years. I would NEVER trust a decocker/safety. I have seen them fail.

[wild cat mccane]

Walther replaced it with a more expensive model because they are admitting a faulty product, please don't sue us.

<--walther fan boy.

[Crankylove]

Walther replaced it with a more expensive model because they are admitting a faulty product, please don't sue us.

Walther replaced the pistol because they don’t want to deal with the hassle of fighting someone who doesn’t practice good firearms safety, and doesn’t know how to use the gun, not because it was defective.

[Ace_Breaker]

I tested the gun numerous times afterwards and the gun fired every time I took off the backs-trap. Yes, it left me scratching my head. The trigger safety and firing pin safety both failed. Nothing was on the trigger friends so ease up on the judgement. Walther refused to return it to me because of the issues the armorer found. The Baldwin comment is stupid and uncalled for. No universal firearms rules were violated, but I made the mistake of trusting the gun safeties and not unloading it. I would never have thought in a million years a weapon would fire by taking off the backstrap.

[Ace_Breaker]

RPK the all knowing is completely wrong by the way so keep your wrong opinion to yourself. I left this forum years ago because comments like that. Not worth arguments with the uninformed.

Cranky love-correct I complained and they just tossed me a new more expensive gun because they wanted no hassle. Good call. It was in no way, shape, or form because of a defective weapon.

[DT Guy]

It's interesting that we now seem to live in a world where someone can do something specifically prohibited in the owner's manual, gloss over that with the statement, "in retrospect I should have unloaded the weapon, but in my mind QuickSafe becomes useless if you already unload the weapon" and then start a thread about a "Major Safety Issue" with a pistol.

This is why a car's owner's manual used to tell you how to adjust the valves, and now warns you about drinking the anti-freeze.....

Larry

[Ace_Breaker]

Yep DT, I am at fault and the weapon had nothing to do with it. Good call to judgement.

Before posting this thread I read that many have issues with the backstrap falling off when getting hit. If what happened to me is true, then there could be potential risks for PPS owners carrying the gun. Walther would literally have to recall all PPS classics. Is that worth sharing? It is clear many of you would rather judge me than see that there could be an issue. I do have two witnesses to the defective weapon firing but nobody asks, they just rush to judge. And then Walther keeps the gun and apologized for the problems I had. I know how it goes around here. Now we will beat up my comments and forget the safety issue.

Moderators, please lock this thread or erase the thread if the safety concern is considered invalid.

[Ace_Breaker]

BTW, for my edification, can somebody with a PPS classic test this? Pull the backstrap off and see if it releases the striker?

[Aguila Blanca]

I think there is a legitimate question as to whether Ace Breaker's pistol was defective, or whether they all do that -- which would mean the design is defective. That issue won't be resolved by calling other people names, so let's not have any more of that or this discussion will be closed.

From a review of the PPS:
http://www.9mmhandgunreviews.com/wal...ps-review.html

Additionally there is an indicator on the back of the slide that shows whether the striker is partially cocked. The major point of departure for the PPS's 'Quick Safe' trigger variant from the P99 is that when the pistol's back strap is removed the sidearm becomes disabled for safe storage by decocking and blocking the striker until the backstrap is reinstalled. A unique feature of the PPS is the simple cocking indicator on the back of the slide. The indication is simple: if you see the red tip of the indicator, the gun is ready to fire.

Here's another:
https://gunsgunsguns.net/walther-pps/

One noteworthy feature: Removing the backstrap will render the pistol inoperable for safe storage and also offers a different grip configuration for different size hands. While disassembling the PPS, Walther suggests removing the backstrap instead of pressing the trigger to release the action, which would certainly eliminate any involuntary discharge.

And right from Walther:
http://www.carlwalther.com/pps.htm

Walther QuickSafe? Safety redefined: The partially cocked striker assembly is decocked simply by removing the backstrap. The removed backstrap therefore doubles as a "key". Without it, the pistol can't be fired! So when the backstrap and the pistol are stored separately, the PPS is safeguarded against unauthorized use.

I'm sure the reviewer got this information from Walther; I doubt he just made it up. This would certainly indicate to me that the striker should not be able to make contact with a live primer in the process of removing the backstrap. But I'm an old-fashioned sort of guy -- to me, "blocked" means "blocked."

[TunnelRat]

I continue to be confused at some reactions people have on the internet. I don’t understand why some seem angry with the OP for having a manufacturer address a safety issue. Per follow on posts, according to Ace Walther replaced the product due to safety concerns and I’m inclined to believe him/her. Whether I or anyone else like Walther is immaterial to that fact. I’ve personally seen pistols from the factory that had defects. What’s important in those cases is that proper gun handling prevents someone from being hurt and secondarily that the defective product is fixed. Both seem to have been taken care of here.


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[sigarms228]

Originally Posted by Ace_Breaker

BTW, for my edification, can somebody with a PPS classic test this? Pull the backstrap off and see if it releases the striker?

I just checked on mine and it appears the striker does not drop to where it could fire a live round though of course I did not try with a live round in the chamber.

1. When pulling the trigger on my PPS while cocked the rear "red tipped cocking indicator" moves out maybe 1/8 of an inch and then drops back in as the striker drops. When removing the backstrap that does not happen (moving out about 1/8 of an inch) but the indicator drops further into the slide so that you can not see the red tip anymore and not making much noise in the process, much less than actually pulling the trigger to get the striker to drop.

2. I put a pencil in the barrel to check if firing pin was being actuated , pointed the barrel skyward and removed the backstrap twice and the pencil did not move at all making sure I racked the slide fully before each attempt.

3. I noticed after doing the above that the trigger barely moved from full forward postition when cocked after removing the backstrap. After that I put my finger on the trigger and was able to move ii to the rear where it normally is after a dry fire/decocked with almost zero resistance.

Hope this helps.

Also curious about.

1. Did you buy your PPS new?

2. Had it been modified in any way from factory new including any non Walther springs/parts?

3. Ever disassembled beyong basic field strip?

[Ace_Breaker]

Thanks for testing Sigarms. I think what happened to me is that the trigger moved as you stated when you removed the backstrap, yet my trigger safety failed to stop mine from mimicking a trigger pull. My trigger did move all the way back as if firing the gun when I tested it later. The gun was like new, no mods or upgrades. I did not disassemble more than a field strip.

Thanks Aguila for the information you posted. You are absolutely correct. My manual is stored away and I had read what you posted from the website. I absolutely believed that the weapon was safe to remove the backstrap based on that information.

The good news in all this is only ego was hurt and that my PPS m2 has no backstrap to worry about! My PDP is also a joy to own!

[wild cat mccane]

I think handsome Wild Cat Mccane pointed out at the start of this thread that there is a mysterious "part 26" that Walther specifically designed that won't allow the PPS to fire without the trigger being pulled.


We know this isn't an issue in general for the PPS. It wasn't deprecated to the M2 because of a recall.

So if your PPS does this or not, doesn't matter. The question is IF it can do it, with a manufactured part that WON'T allow it (part 26), then Walther has a HUGE liability. Also in the manual, there are instructions that pulling the trigger will fire the gun, no? that's the purpose and mechanical function of the gun. Anything else? Get your checkbook out Walther.

Seriously. If your round hit something, you just became a US citizen with legal standing against a company with YOUR (either the entire line (class action) or just your) product that is defective. That's how it works.