Anyone making a Lightweight Commander...

**Mike Irwin** · December 11, 2021, 11:20 AM

in .38 Super right now?

It's looking like S&W's not going to chamber the 2.0 in .38 Super, much to my dismay, so I guess I'll have to go classic old school with a 1911.

But I'd like a lightweight commander...

Not having much success with my searching.

MarkCO · December 11, 2021, 11:47 AM

Colt has one that I think is current. DW makes the Guardian. That is about it as far as I know.

105kw · December 11, 2021, 11:54 AM

Colt did a limited run of Lightweight Commanders in 38 Super for Talos a while ago, I haven't heard of any others building them.

L-2 · December 11, 2021, 01:41 PM

This is arguably similar to a "Commander". Kimber has this "Pro" model, which is a 4" bushing-less barrel, not a 4.25" barrel with bushing.

This Kimber also has its "Series II" aka "Swartz" firing pin safety, not a Colt-type "Series 80" firing pin safety system.

It's also a stainless-steel frame, not an alloy frame.

https://www.kimberamerica.com/pro-carry-hd-ca

MarkCO · December 11, 2021, 01:43 PM

L-2, that is a steel frame though. I think he is looking for an alloy frame for lightweight.

**Mike Irwin** · December 11, 2021, 01:54 PM

Yep, I really would like the lightweight frame.

But, if that's not going to happen I may just spring for a Rock Island GI Standard FS.

Not really what I want platform wise, but I'll deal.

**Mike Irwin** · December 11, 2021, 01:55 PM

Rock Island offers a compact in their GI series, but it appears that it's only .38 Super.

CORRECTION -- It's only .45 ACP.

L-2 · December 11, 2021, 02:01 PM

Oh well. It's a good thing I'm not a salesman.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 11, 2021, 03:18 PM

Mike, keep in mind that .38 Super is a semi-rimmed case. That results in a rather odd condition -- the rim is slightly larger than 9mm, smaller than .40 S&W, and generally able to be used in pistols of either caliber with just a barrel swap.

In fact, a friend told me that all Para-Ordnance 9mm and .40 S&W pistols used the same breechface cut. I didn't believe him ... until I tested it. I bought a Para .40 S&W slide from Sarco, built a pistol with it, and used a 9mm barrel. It's 100% reliable. Caspian Arms has told me that they use the same slide (breechface) cut for all their 9mm and .38 Super slides.

If you can't find a lightweight Commander in .38 Super, see if you can find one in 9mm or .40 S&W. You could then just buy a .38 Super barrel and do a switch. (For a 9mm, I would confirm that the .38 Super rim will fit the breechface cut. Althou, if it doesn't, since you reload you could always go to Starline's .38 Super Comp brass, which eliminates the semi-rim.)

74A95 · December 11, 2021, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

In fact, a friend told me that all Para-Ordnance 9mm and .40 S&W pistols used the same breechface cut. I didn't believe him ... until I tested it. I bought a Para .40 S&W slide from Sarco, built a pistol with it, and used a 9mm barrel. It's 100% reliable. Caspian Arms has told me that they use the same slide (breechface) cut for all their 9mm and .38 Super slides.

That's not the way to test if Para Ordnance 9mm and 40 slides have the same breech cut. To test it, buy a 9mm slide and see if a 40 will fit.

BTW, your friend is wrong. I have a Para Ordnance 9mm and the breech will not accept a 40. It's too narrow.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 12, 2021, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

That's not the way to test if Para Ordnance 9mm and 40 slides have the same breech cut. To test it, buy a 9mm slide and see if a 40 will fit.

BTW, your friend is wrong. I have a Para Ordnance 9mm and the breech will not accept a 40. It's too narrow.

I'll let you tell him he's wrong -- he owns a P18.9, and it accepts .40 S&W cases. If we hadn't conformed that, I wouldn't have bought the slide I did.

rodfac · December 12, 2021, 06:54 AM

I have series 70 Colt slides and barrels, bought in the early '90's, in 9mm and .38 Super that accommodate either caliber. I use them on both a Colt Combat Commander and a Ruger CMD, both originally in .45 ACP, making both, 3 caliber capable Commanders...4 if you count the Ciener .22 LR upper that also fits. The conversion required only a change in the ejector, IIRC. Best Regards, Rod....I can measure the slide cut if you need it, Mike.

Edit: Just checked, neither Colt slide (series 70 vintage) will accept Winchester, Blazer or Federal .40 S&W brass. The slide cut is too narrow. HTH's. Rod

Edit #2: BTW, in the guns noted above, I'm able to use .38 Super magazines for both .38 Super and 9mm. Feeding is 100%. The 9mm mag has a spacer along the rear of the mag for the shorter 9mm round...but is not necessary, at least in my examples. Rod

**Mike Irwin** · December 12, 2021, 11:18 AM

Yeah, last thing I want to do, really, is build my own.

74A95 · December 12, 2021, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I'll let you tell him he's wrong -- he owns a P18.9, and it accepts .40 S&W cases. If we hadn't conformed that, I wouldn't have bought the slide I did.

You can tell them for me. I have a P18.9 slide and a 40 S&W will NOT fit. So, it's not universal.

The breech face width of my Para Ordnance P18.9 slide is .407” wide. The SAAMI rim diameter specs specs for the 9mm is .394”. Ask your friend what the breech face width is for their P18.9.

The breech face width of my Para Ordnance P16.40 slide is .432” wide. The SAAMI rim diameter specs specs for the 40 S&W is .424”. The 40 S&W case will not fit my Para P18.9 slide because the case (.424”) is too wide to fit the breech face (.407”). But I think I already said that.

Again, your 'test' of whether a 40 slide is the same as a 9mm is not a proper test of whether the breech face is the same. See my previous post.

You bought a 40 S&W slide, right? I hate to break the news to you, but a 9mm will fit all 40 S&W slide breech faces. See the dimensions above. It's not surprising that 9mms will work with 40 S&W slides because of all the conversion barrels for various 40 S&W pistol designs to allow them to shoot 9mm ammo. The issue is whether the extractor will work reliably with the smaller 9mm rim diameter. In most instances they do. The other concern is how well the 9mm hood fits the breech face. Depending on the hood specs, a 9mm barrel hood might have space on the sides in a 40 S&W slide. I don’t know those specs for 1911s.

The ONLY authority for breech face specs is Para Ordnance. The proper source for correct technical information is the manufacturer. You should know this. Is/was your friend a engineer for Para Ordnance? If so, ask them for drawings they used to make their guns.

Brutus · December 16, 2021, 10:46 PM

I have one of the DW Guardians in 38 Super, it has become my favorite CCW.
Duty finish on the slide, bobtail grip, light weight aluminum frame and it comes in the all American 38 Super. Can't ask for more than that. Liked it so much I had to get the PM-38 full size.

**Mike Irwin** · December 18, 2021, 06:11 AM

Don't know how I missed the Guardian. That's more or less exactly what I'm looking for.

Have to give it a hard though, though, at that price. Bit more than I wanted to spend.

Thanks, Brutus!

Brutus · December 18, 2021, 03:41 PM

I've run the gamut of 1911's, mostly stuck with Colt's, ventured into Kimbers and they are good pistols until you have problems, mostly due to MIM parts, then you get to learn about their customer service which is why I now am a big fan of Dan Wesson.
I to gagged at the price at first but when compared to Wilson, Brown or Les Baer they begin to sound more reasonable. Closest thing you can get to a custom pistol.
Mine have been 100% reliable and far more accurate than I'm capable of. At this time I currently own 4 of the critters. The full size all steel PM-38 shoots a 124gr. Hornady XTP hollowpoint at 1400fps. in my handloads. Makes the 9mm a true punybellum.

Jack19 · December 19, 2021, 07:03 AM

https://shopcoltfirearms.com/colt-19...alo-exclusive/

Allegedly they have one in stock. But the check out process shows only Zelle and crypto as payment options. I'd proceed with extreme caution.

There's this one.....
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101799586

**Mike Irwin** · December 19, 2021, 07:26 AM

"But the check out process shows only Zelle and crypto as payment options."

NOPE!

"There's this one....."

I can't even begin to imagine what they're thinking for that...

December 11, 2021, 11:20 AM	#1
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Anyone making a Lightweight Commander... in .38 Super right now? It's looking like S&W's not going to chamber the 2.0 in .38 Super, much to my dismay, so I guess I'll have to go classic old school with a 1911. But I'd like a lightweight commander... Not having much success with my searching. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 11, 2021, 01:41 PM	#4
L-2 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 522	This is arguably similar to a "Commander". Kimber has this "Pro" model, which is a 4" bushing-less barrel, not a 4.25" barrel with bushing. This Kimber also has its "Series II" aka "Swartz" firing pin safety, not a Colt-type "Series 80" firing pin safety system. It's also a stainless-steel frame, not an alloy frame. https://www.kimberamerica.com/pro-carry-hd-ca __________________ (former) Glock Armorer 1911 Armorer LEO (retired) Last edited by L-2; December 11, 2021 at 02:00 PM.

December 11, 2021, 01:43 PM	#5
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	L-2, that is a steel frame though. I think he is looking for an alloy frame for lightweight. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

December 11, 2021, 01:54 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Yep, I really would like the lightweight frame. But, if that's not going to happen I may just spring for a Rock Island GI Standard FS. Not really what I want platform wise, but I'll deal. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 11, 2021, 01:55 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Rock Island offers a compact in their GI series, but it appears that it's only .38 Super. CORRECTION -- It's only .45 ACP. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 11, 2021, 11:47 AM	#2
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	Colt has one that I think is current. DW makes the Guardian. That is about it as far as I know. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

December 11, 2021, 11:54 AM	#3
105kw Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: Columbia Basin Washington Posts: 413	Colt did a limited run of Lightweight Commanders in 38 Super for Talos a while ago, I haven't heard of any others building them.

December 11, 2021, 02:01 PM	#8
L-2 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 522	Oh well. It's a good thing I'm not a salesman. __________________ (former) Glock Armorer 1911 Armorer LEO (retired)

December 11, 2021, 03:18 PM	#9
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Mike, keep in mind that .38 Super is a semi-rimmed case. That results in a rather odd condition -- the rim is slightly larger than 9mm, smaller than .40 S&W, and generally able to be used in pistols of either caliber with just a barrel swap. In fact, a friend told me that all Para-Ordnance 9mm and .40 S&W pistols used the same breechface cut. I didn't believe him ... until I tested it. I bought a Para .40 S&W slide from Sarco, built a pistol with it, and used a 9mm barrel. It's 100% reliable. Caspian Arms has told me that they use the same slide (breechface) cut for all their 9mm and .38 Super slides. If you can't find a lightweight Commander in .38 Super, see if you can find one in 9mm or .40 S&W. You could then just buy a .38 Super barrel and do a switch. (For a 9mm, I would confirm that the .38 Super rim will fit the breechface cut. Althou, if it doesn't, since you reload you could always go to Starline's .38 Super Comp brass, which eliminates the semi-rim.) __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

December 12, 2021, 06:54 AM	#12
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	I have series 70 Colt slides and barrels, bought in the early '90's, in 9mm and .38 Super that accommodate either caliber. I use them on both a Colt Combat Commander and a Ruger CMD, both originally in .45 ACP, making both, 3 caliber capable Commanders...4 if you count the Ciener .22 LR upper that also fits. The conversion required only a change in the ejector, IIRC. Best Regards, Rod....I can measure the slide cut if you need it, Mike. Edit: Just checked, neither Colt slide (series 70 vintage) will accept Winchester, Blazer or Federal .40 S&W brass. The slide cut is too narrow. HTH's. Rod Edit #2: BTW, in the guns noted above, I'm able to use .38 Super magazines for both .38 Super and 9mm. Feeding is 100%. The 9mm mag has a spacer along the rear of the mag for the shorter 9mm round...but is not necessary, at least in my examples. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; December 12, 2021 at 07:04 AM.

December 12, 2021, 11:18 AM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Yeah, last thing I want to do, really, is build my own. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 16, 2021, 10:46 PM	#15
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	I have one of the DW Guardians in 38 Super, it has become my favorite CCW. Duty finish on the slide, bobtail grip, light weight aluminum frame and it comes in the all American 38 Super. Can't ask for more than that. Liked it so much I had to get the PM-38 full size. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

December 18, 2021, 06:11 AM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Don't know how I missed the Guardian. That's more or less exactly what I'm looking for. Have to give it a hard though, though, at that price. Bit more than I wanted to spend. Thanks, Brutus! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 18, 2021, 03:41 PM	#17
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	I've run the gamut of 1911's, mostly stuck with Colt's, ventured into Kimbers and they are good pistols until you have problems, mostly due to MIM parts, then you get to learn about their customer service which is why I now am a big fan of Dan Wesson. I to gagged at the price at first but when compared to Wilson, Brown or Les Baer they begin to sound more reasonable. Closest thing you can get to a custom pistol. Mine have been 100% reliable and far more accurate than I'm capable of. At this time I currently own 4 of the critters. The full size all steel PM-38 shoots a 124gr. Hornady XTP hollowpoint at 1400fps. in my handloads. Makes the 9mm a true punybellum. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

December 19, 2021, 07:03 AM	#18
Jack19 Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2001 Location: Somewhere in the Ford Galaxy Posts: 713	https://shopcoltfirearms.com/colt-19...alo-exclusive/ Allegedly they have one in stock. But the check out process shows only Zelle and crypto as payment options. I'd proceed with extreme caution. There's this one..... https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101799586 __________________ Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals. Samuel Adams Last edited by Jack19; December 19, 2021 at 07:11 AM.

December 19, 2021, 07:26 AM	#19
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"But the check out process shows only Zelle and crypto as payment options." NOPE! "There's this one....." I can't even begin to imagine what they're thinking for that... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.