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Old February 15, 2021, 01:39 AM   #51
tallball
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I ran across a used Hi-Point 9mm carbine for $120-something and couldn't resist.

It's reliable, fun to shoot, and used to be cheap to shoot, too.

For HD I prefer handguns or shotguns, but if it had to be a carbine or rifle, I would prefer pistol caliber. I would be very worried about a high-power rifle round ending up inside a neighbor's house. A pistol caliber wouldn't worry me as much.
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Old February 15, 2021, 10:56 PM   #52
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The way I think about pccs is a semi auto smg. They definitely don't replace a rifle, but having a medium range gun with mags that are interchange with your carry gun could be very beneficial. Plus a ton of fun at the range...
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Old February 15, 2021, 11:31 PM   #53
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A PCC is a very useful thing to have to extend the range of your primary weapon while still being compatible with 1 type of ammo. We don't always need a 5.56 or 308 for defense. No, a PCC is a perfect option to those calibers for home defense or rural ranch use. A PCC can put down a coyote like lightning inside 50 yards. Something a 22 magnum may not do.

The fact you can get a PCC in both semi auto or revolver calibers is a testament to their popularity. For someone looking for the minimum number of guns for self defense, a 9mm Glock, 9mm Ruger PC converted to Glock Mags and a 12 gauge Pump would be a very versatile HD battery. Add a 10/22 or 17hmr bolt gun for small game and a 22 conversion kit for handgun training and you really don't "need" any other guns except maybe for deer hunting.

Alternatively a 357 Revolver and Lever gun with a 12 Gauge in reserve can do even more with a marginal ability to serve as a deer gun out to 100 yards or so without dedicated centerfire big game rifle.
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Old February 15, 2021, 11:59 PM   #54
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There are several PCCs that can deliver 150+ grain slugs at velocities near 2000 fps. That is not a slouch for Deer and Pigs. Pretty dang close to the energy levels of a 12g non-magnum slug as well.
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Old February 16, 2021, 03:51 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by BourbonCowboy View Post
I bought a Hi Point Model 995 a while back. I just wanted something cheap and fun - and that would use the same ammo that I used in my pistols. Besides being cheap and fun, it was surprisingly accurate to about 75 yards.
I am with you on the Hi-Point. Who cares if they are ugly, let the gun snobs talk it down.

I got mine in .45 ACP and I've even shot 45 Super out of it. It is fun, reliable, accurate and cheap.

In my State of CO it cannot be used for hunting, so in that respect it is not very useful outside of plinking and zombie apocalypse scenarios.

Regarding the OP: I think that PCCs have their place when desiring to shoot out of a carbine/rifle platform for precision, but at a lower cost in $ and recoil than when using rifle ammo.

However nowadays even pistol ammo is becoming expensive to shoot, to be honest the only stuff I can afford to shoot is 7.62x39 Russian ammo.
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Old February 16, 2021, 10:26 PM   #56
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I am with you on the Hi-Point. Who cares if they are ugly, let the gun snobs talk it down.
When I first bought the gun, some of my gun snob friends laughed at it...and me. A few months later, I installed the Hi Tower stock on it. The HTA stock doesn't show any Hi Point markings. When I took it out to shoot with my friends, they were drooling over it. The accuracy was still there, so they were even more impressed. I didn't tell them who actually made the rifle.

At the end of the day, a couple of them were asking if I'd think about selling it. I said no, but I could tell them where it came from, if they'd like one. I wish I had a photo of their faces when I told them that it came from Hi Point.
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Old February 16, 2021, 11:40 PM   #57
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Have a 9mm High point, and it is surprisingly accurate. Pain to strip down and clean though. A lot of fun, as is the folding keltec.
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Old February 17, 2021, 09:05 AM   #58
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Have a 9mm High point, and it is surprisingly accurate. Pain to strip down and clean though. A lot of fun, as is the folding keltec.
I am not planning on stripping down and cleaning mine until it literally jams, he he. I'm gonnu let her get duurty. I'll keep track of the round count.

The manual says to clean the barrel after every 300-400 rds, and to disassemble for cleaning after 1500 rds.

And the process doesn't seem to be so bad either, there are a few YouTube videos that are excellent tutorials.
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Old February 17, 2021, 11:12 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Pistoler0 View Post
I am not planning on stripping down and cleaning mine until it literally jams, he he. I'm gonnu let her get duurty. I'll keep track of the round count.

The manual says to clean the barrel after every 300-400 rds, and to disassemble for cleaning after 1500 rds.

And the process doesn't seem to be so bad either, there are a few YouTube videos that are excellent tutorials.
Am not cleaning mine till it needs it for function either, not after the first time
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Old February 17, 2021, 01:33 PM   #60
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The 22RF is the original handgun/long gun round.
Trying to fire a rifle round out of a handgun is the one I think makes no sense. Lower muzzle velocity, awkward handling. I have read that a shoulder stock on a handgun turns a good pistol into a bad carbine, IMHO a "pistol" derived from a rifle does the same thing going the other way.
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Old February 17, 2021, 03:58 PM   #61
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Stripping down a Hi Point carbine is a PITA. Fortunately, you don't need to do it often. I've read stories of 2000+ rounds through one without cleaning. I wouldn't let it go that far...the OCD would kick in long before that.

One of the side benefits of the HTA stock is that it makes the process a lot easier. Yet another reason I (and my OCD) like it.
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Old February 17, 2021, 11:30 PM   #62
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I agree rifle rounds don't really make good handgun rounds but the opposite is not true.
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Old February 19, 2021, 01:49 AM   #63
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I have a couple of PCC guns and they are a lot of fun and cheap, well, cheaper to shoot than a .223/5.56 AR for sure. Another bonus is even my friend's wives/GF's can tolerate shooting them.
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Old February 19, 2021, 02:11 AM   #64
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I agree rifle rounds don't really make good handgun rounds but the opposite is not true.
Generally true, as long as you exclude cartridges on the light end and particularly some from the dim historic past.

First off, the .22LR, was of course originally a rifle cartridge. And rounds like the .22 Hornet, and even .30-30 and .45-70 serve well in my handguns, Contenders are handguns.

So most, but not all rifle rounds aren't well suited to handguns, but some are.

I've had carbines in .357 & .44 Mag and in 9mm and .45acp. They're great carbines, extending the easily useable range of the pistol round and amplifying its power. Are they equal to full rifle rounds? No, of course not, but everything doesn't always need to be, does it?
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Old February 19, 2021, 04:25 AM   #65
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The value of a PCC is it shoots the same ammo that your handguns shoot, so for those who are only interested in plinking and home defense, they can have an effective platform for short range use and shoot it very cheaply. When things were normal, 9mm was $160 for 1000 rds, how much was 1000 rds of .223 or .300? $350-$400?

Half price for ammo is significant, you can shoot twice as much for the same price.

Not everyone is shoot 200 yards away. Seriously, what self defense situation are you going to be legally justified to shoot that far away? What game are you hunting with .300 BLK at 200 yards?
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Old February 21, 2021, 03:27 PM   #66
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I have PCC's in 357 mag, 44 mag and 10mm. Out to 150 yards they will do anything I need a rifle for.
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Old February 25, 2021, 05:24 PM   #67
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It seems like most people like them because they perceive some advantage to having their long gun and handgun shoot the same ammunition. I think the advantage to that is overblown. I still like them though. The lever actions are pretty compact and handy.

If I was using something for dedicated CQB it very well might be a suppressed 9mm.
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Old February 25, 2021, 08:10 PM   #68
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It seems like most people like them because they perceive some advantage to having their long gun and handgun shoot the same ammunition.
You missed the fact that it helps handgun cartridges become much more than they are from a handgun. Especially in the case of magnum revolvers and the 10mm.
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Old February 25, 2021, 10:36 PM   #69
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Aside from the more inexpensive cartridges needed to feed it...it is a great avenue to introduce a newer shooter to the sport without investing in yet another caliber. I gotta' think that .38 Special out of a firearm that can be shouldered has to be very gentle and unintimidating. I am eager to try one!
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Old February 28, 2021, 04:55 PM   #70
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Mine is a MARLIN 357 MAG 1894 CSBL Goes with My SP101 Revolvers
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Old February 28, 2021, 05:42 PM   #71
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I like mine...
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Old February 28, 2021, 08:16 PM   #72
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a PCC is a perfect option to those calibers for home defense
EXACTLY why I bought mine and am looking for a matching second one (because 2 is 1 and 1 is 0)
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Old March 1, 2021, 02:31 PM   #73
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I'm not ex-LE or ex-Mil & don't pretend to be. Like most on the net, I'm an armchair QB in such matters. I have been shooting and hunting since I was 4 and have owned MANY firearms of all sorts. I'm probably 95% a bolt action guy and look at PCC's, black rifles and pistols as tools...and insurance policies in more ways than one. Like Matthew Quigley once noted, "Said I didn't have much use for 'em, never said I didn't know how to use 'em."


FOR ME...there was a time I thought a rifle 5.56/7.62x39 rounds or 00-Buck-12Ga was great for HD IN the house...until I had 5 children & now grandchildren. WAAAAY too much penetration for my liking in the home not to mention size, length, and blast. (I wouldn't probably use more than 4-shot for a shotgun in HD anymore.)

Quote:
a PCC is a perfect option to those calibers for home defense
Agreed & where I have personally settled along with strategically placed pistols hoping I never need to use either. PCC/PDW's fit nearly anywhere, low recoil & muzzle blast, easy to point in confined spaces, easy to shoot for nearly anyone, high capacity, accurate and I'm not so worried about unintentional injuries and over penetration. I mainly stay with Glock magazine-oriented PCC's as they seem to be the most common and readily available besides AR magazines...and reliable. I stick with 9mm & 40 S&W for many of the previously mentioned reasons. I would like one in 10mm if I could afford one that I trusted...that uses Glock magazines. (I don't own any Glocks...nothing personal...just prefer the ergonomics of other pistols. I do like the dependability, reasonable cost and availability of their magazines...second only to AR's. A few PCC/PDW thoughts...

MP-5's...proven but older design with VERY high cost of acquisition. Set the standard...I have never owned one but am a fan generally...just not willing to pay the price with so many other cost effective and updated options.

I'm interested in a short barreled .357M lever action...just something about it.

I think M1C's are so cool even if not technically a PCC. Just not sure I want to trust my life to one unless I had a constant supply of new OEM magazines...especially with so many modern and updated options. (10mm wold be a good alternative IMHO.) I am amazed that no one has developed a modern PCC in this round...I think it would do very well.

LOVED my Berretta CX4 Storm in 9mm but it was quite bulky, difficult to personalize and less discreet to hide conceal. 16" barrel only unless SBR'd after the fact. I am amazed that Beretta hasn't really altered it to adapt to the times. Reasonably priced normally. Available in multiple magazine configurations & cailbers (9mm, 40 S&W & 45 ACP)...mine used 92 & Px4 magazines that interchanged with my pistols. However, it was lawless in form and function over several thousand rounds and more accurate than it had a right t be at 100 yards. I seriously regret selling & may replace if things settle down.


PS90...5.7x28. So cool, small, reliable VERY high capacity...up to 100 rnds stacked and reversed, very proprietary, VERY hard to reload for...reliably, not many AM options, meh trigger. Did I say cool factor...fun to shoot? Normally higher priced & less available ammo than most other options. Very high cost of acquisition. Great sister pistols but also high priced. Great penetration. It was sold & outside of a range toy probably wouldn't consider one again. Pain to SBR...better to buy as a SBR.

CZ Scorpion...pistol, SPR or PCC rifle, large and heavy if the latter. 9mm Love it but it has pros & cons mostly pros. A tad heavier than some other options...I will never sell. Proprietary magazines are the main drawback...kinda wished it used Glock's. That said, I hear there are other firearms using their magazines and their are aftermarket magazine manufacturers...OEM is still reasonably priced compared to others. HUGE aftermarket following. NON-reciprocating left side charging handle.

Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in 9mm & 40 S&W (& 45 ACP). Available in S&W, Beretta, & Glock magazine configurations. This is one of the most safe to keep essentially loaded (for kids in the home) in a folded configuration. VERY concealable, accurate and reliable in my experience. The 40 S&W has a surprising amount of snap to it with it's primitive stock butt & blowback design...but I wouldn't ever sell it. LOTS of capacity & impact. Decent AM offerings. I prefer the 2nd Gen. Annoying reciprocating charging handle in the buffer tube...a beard grabber. This is a 16 rifle, don't see the point of SBR...if you could.

My favorite of late is my Extar EP9's in 9mm...which is AR'esque (controls and buffer tube) without some of the issues of AR9 conversions. (unless you spend WAY more money.) 5.5" pistol...with brace. Great for the HD or truck as well as a seriously fun gun. (I believe Honest Outlaw is a huge fan as well.) Next to the Beretta, it is the softest & smoothest shooting of all the PCC/PDW's I have shot so far. It has a reputation of being dead nutz reliable and accurate for what it is. Mostly polymer which is actually better than I had thought as I reflect on it more and more. Stellar customer service and reliability ratings. Super light compared to most. Few rust points, left side NON-reciprocating charging handle, TRUE non-magazine related last round hold open, AR controls, uses Glock magazines, drop free, great trigger & ergonomics...the foregrip is a bit proprietary but sufficient. Easier to disassemble than AR's but very similar. Priced right at $500 landed WITH a brace & compensator. I highly recommend this to the average guy as well as those who even have extra to spend. Currently only available due to demand as a 9mm but are made in 40 S&W, 45 ACP & 10mm. I missed the boat on one in 10mm as they are currently suspended to maintain the 9mm demand...but will add one when available. They are a bit hard to get as they sell directly from the manufacture...in 30 minutes or less when available.

Lastly, I SOOO wished I could find a currently available PCC in 22 TCM. WAY more capable than most realize. I love this cartridge and even have a custom CZ 527 in it.

Just my own personal observations, thoughts and feedback...worth what you paid for them.
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Old March 1, 2021, 07:59 PM   #74
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Guns in general are a hell of a lot like trucks and motorcycles with beauty being in the eye of the beholder. If my dogs had faces as ugly as some of the gun images I have seen posted I would shave their butts and walk them backwards.

One of my favorite rifles I had my mom buy me as a kid and I repaid my parents. It's a Ruger 44 Carbine. It's short and handy and for hunting states like West Virginia where in over 20 years I only got one shot over 100 yards it was ideal. I hunted W. VA. because here in Ohio till recently deer hunting was limited to muzzle loaders or shotgun with a slug like many other states.

Many states have recently opened hunting with rifles using straight wall cartridges which includes a heck of a lot of so called PCC guns including semi-automatic rifles. Rifles like the Marlin Camp guns and Ruger PC Carbines not to mention the High Point guns which are a pleasure to shoot.

Anyway I figure to each their own to include guns, trucks and motorcycles.

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Old March 3, 2021, 09:15 PM   #75
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Wilson Combat seems to manufacture a nice carbine, yet it sadly is only available in 9mm.
It seems my best choice so far for premium-quality carbine in .40 S&W is CMMG Banshee.
Any other ideas for a really good one in .40 S&W?
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