The NRA just filed for bankruptcy!!! - Page 4

DMK · January 24, 2021, 08:41 PM

Quote:

I can't speak to the seriousness of the effort, but the fact the ACLU is siding with the NRA's right to exist suggests the NY AG is out of line.

Well that is an interesting wrinkle.

David Cole, national legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union:

Quote:

Our democracy is premised on the right of association. The First Amendment protects not only the right to speak, but also to band together with others to advance one's views. Making or resisting change in a democracy requires collective action, and a healthy democracy therefore demands a robust "civil society." The right to associate can't survive if officials can shut down organizations with which they disagree. . . .

Well said Mr. Cole! Same can be said for Academia in this country. Internet media corporations as well, but that is certainly muddier water legally.

**Shane Tuttle** · January 25, 2021, 03:52 PM

So, the ACLU even sides with the NRA...

Never did I think I would be alive to see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Consequently, I could see the law being used to remove Wayne LaPierre and much of the board of directors, but dissolving the organization is punishing the victims.

Then, I would have to be open to allowing the law to do just that. As stated by many others many times, WLP is the cancer of the NRA. If he were to be removed and reinstate members to hold a vote for who resides that position, the NRA's rudder could change the course back int he right direction.

Carl the Floor Walker · January 25, 2021, 05:39 PM

Not the least bit worried about WLP being the cancer. Take for instance one of the biggest Anti Gov's in the state of Virginia, Ralph Northam. Now check out his largest contributors. Look at their Font web page. Notice "NRA WATCH" Vote to impeach Trump.
Read about them, read all the laws they are going after. See the three letter's NRA throughout the webpage. And they claim to have 6 million members. (but that could very well be a lie, just like everything else out of their mouths).
Regardless, folks that want Wayne out, here is your best hope. And I believe they will get the job done for all of you.
I suggest you read all!

https://everytown.org/

DMK · January 25, 2021, 08:24 PM

So Carl, I don't get you. Why are you such a WLP apologist? Do you think Wayne is doing a good job?

Yes, the anti's hate the 2nd amendment and want to destroy the NRA to destroy the 2nd. We all know this. We all want the NRA to fight for the 2nd. They aren't doing that.

People here keep saying and you are not listening. We want a politically stronger NRA that defends the RKBA. WLP is preventing that from happening.

Carl the Floor Walker · January 25, 2021, 09:04 PM

I am listening t. All these attacks are just fodder for ANTI's. Quite feeding them.
How about this. Tell us what he NRA is doing right now across the Country. For instance, every year my club sponsors Boy Scouts of America for shooting, training, and becoming responsible adults. Many clubs that start out like my club got grants to help with Berns, and other structural building and on and on.
How about we focus on the Good That the NRA is doing. Support them in there many fights in court cases around the Country and let the board settle their differences.
Constant disparaging WLP is just negative chatter that the Left LOVE to hear. I personally will give them nothing. Not one second of pleasure.

FoghornLeghorn · January 26, 2021, 08:16 AM

Quote:

How about we focus on the Good That the NRA is doing.

Focusing upon "the good" to the exclusion of acknowledging wayne's corruption is not even logical. Much less, practical.

It's a problem that won't get fixed by burying your head in the sand. And it's a problem that desperately needs to be fixed.

The travesty that is WLP takes center stage for the NRA. The New York authorities are making sure of it.

TFL members aren't at fault. WLP is at fault. All we're doing is acknowledging the abuse.

Radny97 · January 26, 2021, 11:09 AM

I didn’t start this post to turn it into a pi$$ing contest between bagging on WLP or defending the NRA.
Obviously the NRA has serious problems or they would not be in bankruptcy court. WLP may bear responsibility for some of those problems, or he may not. All we have right now are allegations backed by anecdotal evidence.

But I’d be interested to figure out what this means for the NRA and the gun community at large.

How does this affect the NRA show in Atlanta?
What happens to Camp Perry?
What about all the NRA sanctioned matches?
What about American Rifleman, Shooting Illustrated, and the other publications?

I agree with the comment above that dissolving the NRA is NOT a method of relief allowed by the statute in NY. If the allegations are true and the officers and board have mismanaged funds, then the solution should be their termination and the giving of the NRA to a receivership until new officers and board members can be elected by the members. I don’t see how filing for bankruptcy does any good for NRA members other than complicate the litigation. It seems to me that filing for bankruptcy is an admission that the officers and board are in real and serious trouble.

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LeverGunFan · February 10, 2021, 07:18 PM

The NRA donor who filed a class action suit against the NRA is planning to ask the Texas bankruptcy court to appoint a trustee to oversee the NRA operations and possibly remove NRA leadership. David Dell'Aquila has been named to the unsecured creditors' committee by the bankruptcy court, so he may have a chance to succeed. More info here.

This could be good news for the future of the NRA.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 10, 2021, 08:40 PM

Has the Texas court even agreed to accept the bankruptcy petition? The last I knew there were some serious questions as to whether or not the NRA even had standing to be in a court in Texas, and I haven't heard or seen anything (oter than this article, which doesn't address that issue) to tell us whether or not it has been resolved.

HWS · February 11, 2021, 03:11 PM

I am an NRA member or was. I keep getting mail for money and renewal of my membership. But they went bankrupt. So why would I send money to a bankrupt organization? It is like throwing money away. Why wouldn't I wait until they reorganize in Texas and rejoin then?

Pistoler0 · February 11, 2021, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HWS

I am an NRA member or was. I keep getting mail for money and renewal of my membership. But they went bankrupt. So why would I send money to a bankrupt organization? It is like throwing money away. Why wouldn't I wait until they reorganize in Texas and rejoin then?

I have a 3-year subscription to the NRA (only because it is required in for membership in my gun club) and yet, the NRA constantly sends me mail begging me to join the NRA or asking for more money and contributions.

Radny97 · May 11, 2021, 03:03 PM

Well, a federal judge just dismissed the NRAs bankruptcy petition. Meaning they don’t qualify for bankruptcy and will have to face the NY allegations of mismanagement head on. Frankly it’s a good thing. Maybe all the board members and officers will get booted and we’ll finally get our NRA back.

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Double Naught Spy · May 11, 2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Well, a federal judge just dismissed the NRAs bankruptcy petition. Meaning they don’t qualify for bankruptcy and will have to face the NY allegations of mismanagement head on. Frankly it’s a good thing. Maybe all the board members and officers will get booted and we’ll finally get our NRA back.

But not before it really does get bankrupted defending itself and its officers.

MisterCrabby · May 11, 2021, 04:57 PM

The trial brought out very disappointing if not fraudulent and criminal activity. Is there any reason to think the NRA can continue as an effective organization with the current leadership?

HiBC · May 11, 2021, 05:50 PM

A Fed Judge seems to have thrown out the Texas option.

The Judge does not seem favorably impressed by WLP

This will get you the article

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp

Carl the Floorwalker.: I do appreciate your loyalty to the NRA .Its interesting you brought up Boy Scouts.
Early 1960's my Father became absent. I was about 6th grade. Oldest brother entered the service.
Heading into 12 yrs old is tough with that hole in your life. Our society still has that problem real hard. And our young folks have a need for the doorway into the tradition of responsible RTKBA.
I joined Boy Scouts. And the local YMCA had a DCM supported JNRA program. Indoor range,DCM rifles and ammo. Great "Old Guy".

I gained some very important food for my soul from those organizations,and the excellent volunteers. I understand your loyalty and support.....For what was...back then.

Unfortunately, the "adults" that were trusted with the BSA and the NRA betrayed the Youth with their own adult scandals and litigation.

The Youth is still there,but they have been left hungry. Both the NRA and BSA are stigmatized. Parents feel less trust for both organizations.

In my neck of the woods, 4-H is the more active path in youth development,including shooting .

Its sad. The needs of the Youth have not gone away.

Carl, I don't think sweeping the dirt under the rug will fix anything.

When I get done wrong, I can forgive and heal up. But the first step is a conversation . If the person who did me wrong can't own it,can't at least say "I'm sorry"
Well,experience has taught me I'm just going to get more of the same. At some point,I'm choosing to accept being treated like a doormat.

So long as WLP and Co are in place, the NRA is dying of a fatal cancer.

Thats always very sad. Its not going to heal itself. Maybe it can be cut out.

But WLP seems pretty malignant.

Radny97 · May 11, 2021, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

But not before it really does get bankrupted defending itself and its officers.

Yes very possible

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Radny97 · May 11, 2021, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

A Fed Judge seems to have thrown out the Texas option.

The Judge does not seem favorably impressed by WLP

This will get you the article

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp

Carl the Floorwalker.: I do appreciate your loyalty to the NRA .Its interesting you brought up Boy Scouts.
Early 1960's my Father became absent. I was about 6th grade. Oldest brother entered the service.
Heading into 12 yrs old is tough with that hole in your life. Our society still has that problem real hard. And our young folks have a need for the doorway into the tradition of responsible RTKBA.
I joined Boy Scouts. And the local YMCA had a DCM supported JNRA program. Indoor range,DCM rifles and ammo. Great "Old Guy".

I gained some very important food for my soul from those organizations,and the excellent volunteers. I understand your loyalty and support.....For what was...back then.

Unfortunately, the "adults" that were trusted with the BSA and the NRA betrayed the Youth with their own adult scandals and litigation.

The Youth is still there,but they have been left hungry. Both the NRA and BSA are stigmatized. Parents feel less trust for both organizations.

In my neck of the woods, 4-H is the more active path in youth development,including shooting .

Its sad. The needs of the Youth have not gone away.

Carl, I don't think sweeping the dirt under the rug will fix anything.

When I get done wrong, I can forgive and heal up. But the first step is a conversation . If the person who did me wrong can't own it,can't at least say "I'm sorry"
Well,experience has taught me I'm just going to get more of the same. At some point,I'm choosing to accept being treated like a doormat.

So long as WLP and Co are in place, the NRA is dying of a fatal cancer.

Thats always very sad. Its not going to heal itself. Maybe it can be cut out.

But WLP seems pretty malignant.

Great analogy and I totally agree

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WyMark · May 11, 2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterCrabby

The trial brought out very disappointing if not fraudulent and criminal activity. Is there any reason to think the NRA can continue as an effective organization with the current leadership?

No, none whatsoever.

Famas · May 12, 2021, 09:31 AM

I have been watching this closely and it worries me. I can think of several very important things about the NRA which needs to change to be more in tune with current events, leadership being the top challenge. However, for all of it's faults, the fact is the NRA is still the only pro-2nd Ad organization out there with the biggest political clout when compared to other pro-gun groups which appear fractured and not unified.

The bankruptcy dismissal is interesting given that the judge basically said it was filed in "bad faith"...but when the NY Ag's past anti-NRA comments are brought to light, it is very possible that the suit could be equally dismissed as being in "bad faith" as well.

Still, I'm of the opinion that 2nd AD rights are under siege given the current political and demographic climate, and pro-gun politicians have not always done very well at articulating them.

BarryLee · May 12, 2021, 10:25 AM

Quote:

the fact is the NRA is still the only pro-2nd Ad organization out there with the biggest political clout when compared to other pro-gun groups

I have the same concerns. Obviously the NY Ag has no concern whatsoever that the NRA may not be representing members properly. The point of this entire thing is to destroy the NRA and bring them one step closer to abolishing our Constitutional Freedoms. I wonder if we need to all hold our noses and support the NRA through these attacks. I wish the NRA Board would give us some sort of sign that they intend to address these issues internally and get refocused. The recent election has emboldened the enemy and I can assure you they are focused.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 12, 2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryLee

I have the same concerns. Obviously the NY Ag has no concern whatsoever that the NRA may not be representing members properly. The point of this entire thing is to destroy the NRA and bring them one step closer to abolishing our Constitutional Freedoms. I wonder if we need to all hold our noses and support the NRA through these attacks.

No, we don't. We need to support to dissidents who have become involved in the process. The current NRA board of directors -- at least the ones with any clout - are still circling the wagons around LaPierre. According to information in the lawsuit, the president, Carolyn Meadows, formed a three-person "Special Litigation Committee" supposedly for the purpose of handling the litigation without involving LaPierre, since he is a named defendant in the NY State lawsuit and therefore he has a real (as well as perceived) conflict of interest. That means LaPierre was supposed to keep HANDS OFF the litigation. Instead, LaPierre himself hatched the idea of this bankruptcy filing in Texas and who did he discuss it with? Not the board of directors, but only with the three people on the committee that was created to keep him away from the litigation. Neither LaPierre or the three member of this special committee consulted or informed the chief financial officer, the chief (in house) counsel, or the board of directors.

That should make it clear that the board of directors (again -- those with the clout) are not interested in cleaning house, they are only interested in keeping LaPierre in his job so they can continue to ride the gravy train for as long as possible. When it's all over, they'll throw us members under the bus and cheerfully go on with their lives.

Quote:

I wish the NRA Board would give us some sort of sign that they intend to address these issues internally and get refocused. The recent election has emboldened the enemy and I can assure you they are focused.

Don't hold your bteath.

Mainah · May 12, 2021, 05:55 PM

Quote:

The bankruptcy dismissal is interesting given that the judge basically said it was filed in "bad faith"...but when the NY Ag's past anti-NRA comments are brought to light, it is very possible that the suit could be equally dismissed as being in "bad faith" as well.

I'd be hard pressed to imagine a way that the NRA leadership could have made the NY AG's job easier. And this is all taking place while gun sales continue to soar. The NRA has wasted a tremendous opportunity for growth, all because of greed.

thallub · May 12, 2021, 10:33 PM

Link to the judge's ruling:

Read bottom half of page22 and all of page 23.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...58.740.0_1.pdf

Radny97 · May 13, 2021, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thallub

Link to the judge's ruling:

Read bottom half of page22 and all of page 23.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...58.740.0_1.pdf

Wow. Well at least WLP told the truth for once. It’s damning truth, but truth.
WLP is apparently an idiot since he appears to think that you can qualify for bankruptcy even if you’re not insolvent. That testimony makes him look like an amoral ignoramus who has no regard for the purpose behind why a law exists. He’s a cancer that I hope the NRA can excise from itself without also dying. But WLP may very well kill the NRA with all he has done.

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Famas · May 13, 2021, 12:24 PM

It's sickening. So if true, it would appear that one man and his 2-3 minions have not only become the greatest allies of the anti-2nd AD movement.... but also could potentially be responsible for single-handedly destroying the longest surviving organization which ensured that a founding principal of the American Bill of Rights be protected and preserved. Maybe in WLP's case, the NRA should stand for Not Really Astute and the rest of us suckers for putting him there?

January 25, 2021, 08:24 PM	#79
DMK Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: Over the hills and far, far away Posts: 3,206	So Carl, I don't get you. Why are you such a WLP apologist? Do you think Wayne is doing a good job? Yes, the anti's hate the 2nd amendment and want to destroy the NRA to destroy the 2nd. We all know this. We all want the NRA to fight for the 2nd. They aren't doing that. People here keep saying and you are not listening. We want a politically stronger NRA that defends the RKBA. WLP is preventing that from happening. __________________ - Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment - www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org

January 25, 2021, 09:04 PM	#80
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	I am listening t. All these attacks are just fodder for ANTI's. Quite feeding them. How about this. Tell us what he NRA is doing right now across the Country. For instance, every year my club sponsors Boy Scouts of America for shooting, training, and becoming responsible adults. Many clubs that start out like my club got grants to help with Berns, and other structural building and on and on. How about we focus on the Good That the NRA is doing. Support them in there many fights in court cases around the Country and let the board settle their differences. Constant disparaging WLP is just negative chatter that the Left LOVE to hear. I personally will give them nothing. Not one second of pleasure. Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; January 25, 2021 at 09:11 PM.

January 26, 2021, 11:09 AM	#82
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	The NRA just filed for bankruptcy!!! I didn’t start this post to turn it into a pi$$ing contest between bagging on WLP or defending the NRA. Obviously the NRA has serious problems or they would not be in bankruptcy court. WLP may bear responsibility for some of those problems, or he may not. All we have right now are allegations backed by anecdotal evidence. But I’d be interested to figure out what this means for the NRA and the gun community at large. How does this affect the NRA show in Atlanta? What happens to Camp Perry? What about all the NRA sanctioned matches? What about American Rifleman, Shooting Illustrated, and the other publications? I agree with the comment above that dissolving the NRA is NOT a method of relief allowed by the statute in NY. If the allegations are true and the officers and board have mismanaged funds, then the solution should be their termination and the giving of the NRA to a receivership until new officers and board members can be elected by the members. I don’t see how filing for bankruptcy does any good for NRA members other than complicate the litigation. It seems to me that filing for bankruptcy is an admission that the officers and board are in real and serious trouble. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

February 10, 2021, 07:18 PM	#83
LeverGunFan Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 407	The NRA donor who filed a class action suit against the NRA is planning to ask the Texas bankruptcy court to appoint a trustee to oversee the NRA operations and possibly remove NRA leadership. David Dell'Aquila has been named to the unsecured creditors' committee by the bankruptcy court, so he may have a chance to succeed. More info here. This could be good news for the future of the NRA. __________________ *Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition*

February 10, 2021, 08:40 PM	#84
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	Has the Texas court even agreed to accept the bankruptcy petition? The last I knew there were some serious questions as to whether or not the NRA even had standing to be in a court in Texas, and I haven't heard or seen anything (oter than this article, which doesn't address that issue) to tell us whether or not it has been resolved. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

January 25, 2021, 05:39 PM	#78
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	Not the least bit worried about WLP being the cancer. Take for instance one of the biggest Anti Gov's in the state of Virginia, Ralph Northam. Now check out his largest contributors. Look at their Font web page. Notice "NRA WATCH" Vote to impeach Trump. Read about them, read all the laws they are going after. See the three letter's NRA throughout the webpage. And they claim to have 6 million members. (but that could very well be a lie, just like everything else out of their mouths). Regardless, folks that want Wayne out, here is your best hope. And I believe they will get the job done for all of you. I suggest you read all! https://everytown.org/

February 11, 2021, 03:11 PM	#85
HWS Member Join Date: July 1, 2018 Posts: 90	I am an NRA member or was. I keep getting mail for money and renewal of my membership. But they went bankrupt. So why would I send money to a bankrupt organization? It is like throwing money away. Why wouldn't I wait until they reorganize in Texas and rejoin then?

May 11, 2021, 03:03 PM	#87
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	Well, a federal judge just dismissed the NRAs bankruptcy petition. Meaning they don’t qualify for bankruptcy and will have to face the NY allegations of mismanagement head on. Frankly it’s a good thing. Maybe all the board members and officers will get booted and we’ll finally get our NRA back. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May 11, 2021, 04:57 PM	#89
MisterCrabby Member Join Date: August 16, 2018 Posts: 90	The trial brought out very disappointing if not fraudulent and criminal activity. Is there any reason to think the NRA can continue as an effective organization with the current leadership?

May 11, 2021, 05:50 PM	#90
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	A Fed Judge seems to have thrown out the Texas option. The Judge does not seem favorably impressed by WLP This will get you the article https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp Carl the Floorwalker.: I do appreciate your loyalty to the NRA .Its interesting you brought up Boy Scouts. Early 1960's my Father became absent. I was about 6th grade. Oldest brother entered the service. Heading into 12 yrs old is tough with that hole in your life. Our society still has that problem real hard. And our young folks have a need for the doorway into the tradition of responsible RTKBA. I joined Boy Scouts. And the local YMCA had a DCM supported JNRA program. Indoor range,DCM rifles and ammo. Great "Old Guy". I gained some very important food for my soul from those organizations,and the excellent volunteers. I understand your loyalty and support.....For what was...back then. Unfortunately, the "adults" that were trusted with the BSA and the NRA betrayed the Youth with their own adult scandals and litigation. The Youth is still there,but they have been left hungry. Both the NRA and BSA are stigmatized. Parents feel less trust for both organizations. In my neck of the woods, 4-H is the more active path in youth development,including shooting . Its sad. The needs of the Youth have not gone away. Carl, I don't think sweeping the dirt under the rug will fix anything. When I get done wrong, I can forgive and heal up. But the first step is a conversation . If the person who did me wrong can't own it,can't at least say "I'm sorry" Well,experience has taught me I'm just going to get more of the same. At some point,I'm choosing to accept being treated like a doormat. So long as WLP and Co are in place, the NRA is dying of a fatal cancer. Thats always very sad. Its not going to heal itself. Maybe it can be cut out. But WLP seems pretty malignant.

May 12, 2021, 09:31 AM	#94
Famas Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: French, currently living in US Posts: 162	I have been watching this closely and it worries me. I can think of several very important things about the NRA which needs to change to be more in tune with current events, leadership being the top challenge. However, for all of it's faults, the fact is the NRA is still the only pro-2nd Ad organization out there with the biggest political clout when compared to other pro-gun groups which appear fractured and not unified. The bankruptcy dismissal is interesting given that the judge basically said it was filed in "bad faith"...but when the NY Ag's past anti-NRA comments are brought to light, it is very possible that the suit could be equally dismissed as being in "bad faith" as well. Still, I'm of the opinion that 2nd AD rights are under siege given the current political and demographic climate, and pro-gun politicians have not always done very well at articulating them.

May 12, 2021, 10:33 PM	#98
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Link to the judge's ruling: Read bottom half of page22 and all of page 23. https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...58.740.0_1.pdf

May 13, 2021, 12:24 PM	#100
Famas Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: French, currently living in US Posts: 162	It's sickening. So if true, it would appear that one man and his 2-3 minions have not only become the greatest allies of the anti-2nd AD movement.... but also could potentially be responsible for single-handedly destroying the longest surviving organization which ensured that a founding principal of the American Bill of Rights be protected and preserved. Maybe in WLP's case, the NRA should stand for Not Really Astute and the rest of us suckers for putting him there?

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