Unsafe Trigger System In Reminton 700 Rifles - Page 3

Chettt · February 20, 2013, 05:48 PM

What is a safe time or direction to point a gun that may fire when taking it off safety to unload? Also if Remington offered a 1911 pistol with the same Walker trigger, would you carry it cocked and locked?

eldermike · February 20, 2013, 06:16 PM

Newer remingtons will cycle while on safe.

emcon5 · February 20, 2013, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chettt

What is a safe time or direction to point a gun that may fire when taking it off safety to unload?

Depends on where you are. Goes back to Rule #2 and Rule #4

Use some common sense, ask yourself "will this bullet go through that?". In a pinch, it is usually not to hard to find good old planet Earth as a safe direction.

Then again, like I said, Remington will fix the pre-1982 triggers, and hasn't made a rifle that needed to be off safe to unload in thirty years, so that is not (or should not be) a concern any more.

I wouldn't hunt with a rifle that needed to be off safe to unload.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chettt

Also if Remington offered a 1911 pistol with the same Walker trigger, would you carry it cocked and locked?

It wouldn't be a 1911 then, would it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldermike

Newer remingtons will cycle while on safe.

Right, since 1982.

Metal god · February 20, 2013, 09:51 PM

I keep hearing guys say you need to keep your 700 properly maintained . I clean the heck out of my guns every time I get back from shooting . I almost never do anything with the triggers in any of my guns . Mostly cus you can't really get to them . I don't take my bolt guns out of the stocks after I have them shooting well cus I don't want to mess with the torque on the screws again . My other guns that I can get to the triggers . I might give them a quick shot of air and light nylon brushing but not much . ( light lube )

How much more should a guy do to keep that area clean . I don't want to be taking the FCG apart to clean each piece . I'll never get it back together. I have a .22 model 60 I would love to take apart and replace the springs and clean everything real well but it looks like I'd be opening a can of worms If I took that trigger assembly apart . Whats a a proper amount of cleaning that will not create more problems .

eldermike · February 20, 2013, 10:00 PM

Thanks Emcon5, I didn't remember the year. For me that still seems like yesterday

steveNChunter · February 22, 2013, 07:46 PM

Neither of my 700's have ever had this problem, one is a pre-'82, the other a model 7 from the 90's. A few years ago I got my gunsmith to teach me how to properly adjust the trigger on a model 700, and he told me about a few instances where he either saw first hand or heard about a 700 that had fired when the safety was flippped off with no trigger pull. He said that in each and every case, the trigger had been adjusted to around 2 lbs. or lower. So I took his advice and adjusted mine to 3 lbs. to be safe. That's light enough for me as mine are both hunting rifles. If they ever cease to suit me at that pull weight I'll just buy a timney.

Prof Young · February 23, 2013, 11:25 AM

I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety.

This issue is why I don't buy Remington anything anymore. They have or had a serious problem and have never stepped up to the plate in an honest fashion and dealt with it in terms of those who were hurt and even killed. There has never been a recall and their first decision to continue manufacture when the problem was first diagnosed is nothing but greed.

We should expect better of our Arms Manufacturers.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

emcon5 · February 23, 2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety.

What did Remington say when the rifle was returned to them?

That's what I thought.........

ShamrockArmory · February 24, 2013, 04:52 PM

Multiple people have returned their 700s and all Remington says is "Everything is fine, you must be crazy."
A1 customer service, that.

jehu · February 25, 2013, 07:48 AM

Almost everyone who owns Remington 700's are going to defend them but just because they've never had the problem dose'nt mean they don't need to have their rifle checked by Rem. or replace with a Timmney or other trigger. If it's even remoetly possible that a certain model rifle could discharge by disengageing the safety or without pulling the trgger, even if it's never happened to you as a owner, you should have it checked out or replace the trigger IMO. Makes me glad I own all Sako's.

Art Eatman · February 25, 2013, 09:30 PM

If I had a concern, I'd do some testing. Cock the rifle. Put the safety on. Pull on the trigger. Release the safety. If nothing happens, try it again a couple of times.

Bounce the butt on the floor but not brutally, of course. With the safety off and the rifle cocked, it should not go "click". This usually means a trigger pull of right at three pounds or maybe more.

FWIW, I rarely use the safety. Mostly, I have the bolt handle up if there's a round in the chamber and I'm sitting around waiting for Bambi.

emcon5 · February 26, 2013, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Cock the rifle. Put the safety on. Pull on the trigger. Release the safety. If nothing happens, try it again a couple of times.

Also put the safety partway between safe and fire and do it again. That is where many of the complaints were, and that is a problem Remington acknowledges exists.

ScottRiqui · February 26, 2013, 12:42 AM

I've seen recommendations for the Timney trigger as a solution to the problem. Is it true that the factory Remington X-Mark Pro trigger uses a different design from the original, and isn't susceptible to the unintended firing problem?

natman · February 26, 2013, 02:31 AM

Quote:

I've seen recommendations for the Timney trigger as a solution to the problem. Is it true that the factory Remington X-Mark Pro trigger uses a different design from the original, and isn't susceptible to the unintended firing problem?

Yes on both counts. Replacing the Walker trigger on older guns fixes the issue and newer guns use a different design.

jughead2 · February 26, 2013, 04:21 AM

does the 7400 fit in this category please

ShamrockArmory · February 26, 2013, 11:46 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8kLT7IRPg

I like how Remington's response only covered a guy that was on the show for all of five minutes. Nevermind the fact that they interviewed the original designer who agreed that it is unsafe. lol

emcon5 · February 26, 2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

I like how Remington's response only covered a guy that was on the show for all of five minutes

That is the teaser, the whole rebuttal is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2YFIwoZsWHk

They pick pretty much all of it apart.

Quote:

Nevermind the fact that they interviewed the original designer who agreed that it is unsafe. lol

Well, no. That is not what he said.

The whole interview, all Walker really said was he advocated for a firing pin block on the safety, and Remington did not do it because of cost. He also said some of the parts were out of spec.

The Walker interview portion is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iis8nxGl-hQ

I covered the other crap they claimed about Walker back in post 42.

reynolds357 · February 26, 2013, 02:51 PM

I think all of you need to get rid of your Remingtons real cheap since you are so scared of them. Sell them to me cheap and I will gladly assume the risk.

ShamrockArmory · February 26, 2013, 03:32 PM

Would it be safe to say that there are about the same number of Ruger 10/22s on the market as the Remington 700?
How many "meritless ND" cases have been filled for the 10/22 vs the 700?

It could be because this is the only gun I've ever heard of something like this happening to, besides the Bryco company which ended up going bankrupt because of the lawsuit, but I find it hard to believe that one type of rifle is more prone to "user idiocy" than another.

reynolds357 · February 26, 2013, 03:59 PM

A 15 lb trigger is much less subject to user idiocy than a 3 lb trigger. A cap pistol is much less subject to user idiocy than a real hand gun. The more practical an item is to someone with common sense, the more prone to danger it seems to be for an idiot.

emcon5 · February 26, 2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Would it be safe to say that there are about the same number of Ruger 10/22s on the market as the Remington 700?
How many "meritless ND" cases have been filled for the 10/22 vs the 700?

Can any numbskull with a jewelers screwdriver tweak a 10/22 trigger to the point it is unsafe?

shurshot · February 26, 2013, 05:10 PM

"I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety".

Yeah, ok.

And I'm guessing no one frigged with the trigger systems or called Remington either? How Come the US Military doesn't have that issue? "LEO"...? Ok, sure...

restlessnomad · February 26, 2013, 05:58 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the Marines build and machine their own "700's". That being the case I would guess they don't have issues with triggers.

emcon5 · February 26, 2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the Marines build and machine their own "700's". That being the case I would guess they don't have issues with triggers.

I don't know if they build their own, but they do have the Walker trigger. The Marines did put a memo out saying not to adjust the triggers, right before they ordered a bunch more rifles.

I think this was covered in the Remington "This-so-called-news-is-a-load-of-horse-shieat" video I linked above.

On Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2YFIwoZsWHk Fast forward to ~6:45

shurshot · February 26, 2013, 06:58 PM

Emcon5, don't bother trying to defend Remington with links of fact based info. I tried earlier in this thread, and several last year. There are certain individuals on here who would prefer to listen to the emotional presentation from left wing CNBC / MSNBC and lawyers, instead of reading objective facts and evidence presented by an American Arms Company. Unreal.

February 20, 2013, 09:51 PM	#54
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	I keep hearing guys say you need to keep your 700 properly maintained . I clean the heck out of my guns every time I get back from shooting . I almost never do anything with the triggers in any of my guns . Mostly cus you can't really get to them . I don't take my bolt guns out of the stocks after I have them shooting well cus I don't want to mess with the torque on the screws again . My other guns that I can get to the triggers . I might give them a quick shot of air and light nylon brushing but not much . ( light lube ) How much more should a guy do to keep that area clean . I don't want to be taking the FCG apart to clean each piece . I'll never get it back together. I have a .22 model 60 I would love to take apart and replace the springs and clean everything real well but it looks like I'd be opening a can of worms If I took that trigger assembly apart . Whats a a proper amount of cleaning that will not create more problems . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 22, 2013, 07:46 PM	#56
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	Neither of my 700's have ever had this problem, one is a pre-'82, the other a model 7 from the 90's. A few years ago I got my gunsmith to teach me how to properly adjust the trigger on a model 700, and he told me about a few instances where he either saw first hand or heard about a 700 that had fired when the safety was flippped off with no trigger pull. He said that in each and every case, the trigger had been adjusted to around 2 lbs. or lower. So I took his advice and adjusted mine to 3 lbs. to be safe. That's light enough for me as mine are both hunting rifles. If they ever cease to suit me at that pull weight I'll just buy a timney. __________________ DEO VINDICE

February 23, 2013, 11:25 AM	#57
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,403	Heard it from an LEO in person. I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety. This issue is why I don't buy Remington anything anymore. They have or had a serious problem and have never stepped up to the plate in an honest fashion and dealt with it in terms of those who were hurt and even killed. There has never been a recall and their first decision to continue manufacture when the problem was first diagnosed is nothing but greed. We should expect better of our Arms Manufacturers. Live well, be safe Prof Young

February 24, 2013, 04:52 PM	#59
ShamrockArmory Member Join Date: January 22, 2013 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 40	Multiple people have returned their 700s and all Remington says is "Everything is fine, you must be crazy." A1 customer service, that. __________________ Korey - Shamrock Armory Glaine ár gcroí, Neart ár ngéag, Beart de réir ár mbriathar. Purity of heart, strength of arms, and truth in words.

February 26, 2013, 04:21 AM	#65
jughead2 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2008 Location: tenn. Posts: 263	700 rifles does the 7400 fit in this category please

February 20, 2013, 05:48 PM	#51
Chettt Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Posts: 238	What is a safe time or direction to point a gun that may fire when taking it off safety to unload? Also if Remington offered a 1911 pistol with the same Walker trigger, would you carry it cocked and locked?

February 20, 2013, 06:16 PM	#52
eldermike Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2013 Location: NC Posts: 545	Newer remingtons will cycle while on safe.

February 20, 2013, 10:00 PM	#55
eldermike Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2013 Location: NC Posts: 545	Thanks Emcon5, I didn't remember the year. For me that still seems like yesterday

February 25, 2013, 07:48 AM	#60
jehu Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 433	Almost everyone who owns Remington 700's are going to defend them but just because they've never had the problem dose'nt mean they don't need to have their rifle checked by Rem. or replace with a Timmney or other trigger. If it's even remoetly possible that a certain model rifle could discharge by disengageing the safety or without pulling the trgger, even if it's never happened to you as a owner, you should have it checked out or replace the trigger IMO. Makes me glad I own all Sako's.

February 25, 2013, 09:30 PM	#61
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If I had a concern, I'd do some testing. Cock the rifle. Put the safety on. Pull on the trigger. Release the safety. If nothing happens, try it again a couple of times. Bounce the butt on the floor but not brutally, of course. With the safety off and the rifle cocked, it should not go "click". This usually means a trigger pull of right at three pounds or maybe more. FWIW, I rarely use the safety. Mostly, I have the bolt handle up if there's a round in the chamber and I'm sitting around waiting for Bambi.

February 26, 2013, 12:42 AM	#63
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I've seen recommendations for the Timney trigger as a solution to the problem. Is it true that the factory Remington X-Mark Pro trigger uses a different design from the original, and isn't susceptible to the unintended firing problem?

February 26, 2013, 11:46 AM	#66
ShamrockArmory Member Join Date: January 22, 2013 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 40	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8kLT7IRPg I like how Remington's response only covered a guy that was on the show for all of five minutes. Nevermind the fact that they interviewed the original designer who agreed that it is unsafe. lol __________________ Korey - Shamrock Armory Glaine ár gcroí, Neart ár ngéag, Beart de réir ár mbriathar. Purity of heart, strength of arms, and truth in words.

February 26, 2013, 02:51 PM	#68
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I think all of you need to get rid of your Remingtons real cheap since you are so scared of them. Sell them to me cheap and I will gladly assume the risk.

February 26, 2013, 03:32 PM	#69
ShamrockArmory Member Join Date: January 22, 2013 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 40	Would it be safe to say that there are about the same number of Ruger 10/22s on the market as the Remington 700? How many "meritless ND" cases have been filled for the 10/22 vs the 700? It could be because this is the only gun I've ever heard of something like this happening to, besides the Bryco company which ended up going bankrupt because of the lawsuit, but I find it hard to believe that one type of rifle is more prone to "user idiocy" than another. __________________ Korey - Shamrock Armory Glaine ár gcroí, Neart ár ngéag, Beart de réir ár mbriathar. Purity of heart, strength of arms, and truth in words.

February 26, 2013, 03:59 PM	#70
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	A 15 lb trigger is much less subject to user idiocy than a 3 lb trigger. A cap pistol is much less subject to user idiocy than a real hand gun. The more practical an item is to someone with common sense, the more prone to danger it seems to be for an idiot.

February 26, 2013, 05:10 PM	#72
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	"I was having this discussion at the range with an LEO. He said they'd had Rem 700s that would fire when the safety was disengaged . . . so they just stopped using the safety". Yeah, ok. And I'm guessing no one frigged with the trigger systems or called Remington either? How Come the US Military doesn't have that issue? "LEO"...? Ok, sure...

February 26, 2013, 05:58 PM	#73
restlessnomad Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Location: Midwest Posts: 71	Please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the Marines build and machine their own "700's". That being the case I would guess they don't have issues with triggers.

February 26, 2013, 06:58 PM	#75
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Emcon5, don't bother trying to defend Remington with links of fact based info. I tried earlier in this thread, and several last year. There are certain individuals on here who would prefer to listen to the emotional presentation from left wing CNBC / MSNBC and lawyers, instead of reading objective facts and evidence presented by an American Arms Company. Unreal.