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October 25, 2010, 01:12 PM | #126 | |
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With a dangerous job like oil drilling , high steel, mining or tower work, normal events follow a pretty well defined script. When something occurs that needs quick correct action, the tools / knowledge / extra skilled people are readily at hand. Most importantly, the worker in a dangerous job knows they have to be on their game from the time they clock in and have time to ramp things up before they arrive. If any of these workers were randomly dumped in to their job specialty at a unfamiliar location with zero skilled people to help, the decisions / actions they make / take won't be as elegant as the ones they make at their more familiar workplace. If the off duty cop had run away with family in tow, how do you think that would have played out in the media / public eye? Would it not empower criminals to be more bold if a uniform isn't present? Lastly, I'm still not convinced the story was written by the actual cop on the scene, it just has the feel of a Internet "story". ( I'm not disputing the basic facts of the actual event) |
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October 25, 2010, 10:55 PM | #127 | |||||||
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Part of that process must take into account the legal caste system(1) that includes sovereign immunity for some, limited sovereign immunity for others, and nothing of the sort for most. Quote:
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I liken this to conditions of employment...because they are conditions of employment, not law. Follow employer policies or face discipline up to and including termination. As the LEO is free to quit at any time and not bound by law to continue employment by that particular level of government (as are military personnel) I am sympathetic. But not overly so. Non-LEOs who don't like their employers' policy vis a vis CCW or any other topic are free to find other employment, too. If you are referring to legal standards for use of force, that is a state-by-state issue, but it is not all that different in most. For instance, a neighboring state's LEOs have the same legal standard for use of deadly force as any citizen, with the additional authority to arrest for misdemeanors. The real difference lies in what I posted above WRT sovereign immunity and practices not codified, but exercised nonetheless. One significant practice being prosecutorial discretion. Quote:
Of course, this has very little to do with analysis of the incident in the OP, as I cannot recall anyone suggesting the officer violated his oath or was dishonorable in any fashion. --------------------- Quote:
There were plenty of times it was just me or me and another guy. No script, nobody at hand to turn a pear-shaped situation into something happy. Quote:
I will concedeyour basic point is sound: there is no occupation perfectly comparable to law enforcement. There are, however, many other occupations as dangerous and that have similar stress levels. (1) It is somewhat off topic, but my opinion WRT sovereign immunity, limited or otherwise, is not favorable. We did away with titles and a class system in the COTUS, I don't think it wise to re-create them. And let there be no doubt, sovereign immunity, enhanced/different sentencing guidelines based on victim identity/occupation rather than perpetrator action is such a critter. All ought to be equal under the law and be responsible for their actions.
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October 26, 2010, 10:21 AM | #128 | |
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Join Date: May 29, 2010
Posts: 166
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@Powderman
I, for one, am not knocking the officer in the OP. From the narrative posted, I think he acted in a reasonable manner; he sought to place his loved ones out of the line of fire, he tried to have people leave the building calmly prior to it turning into a shoot-out. The death of the young girl is a sad, terrible, tragedy. But it was unforseen by him and, from the story as written, I don't see how he could have avoided it.
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October 26, 2010, 10:31 AM | #129 |
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The stupidity in this thread is stunning.
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October 26, 2010, 12:37 PM | #130 |
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Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
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Looks like this thread has outlived its usefulness. It's gone from tactical / training issues to whether or not cops get a free ride.
We should ALL be working to narrow the gap, not widen it. This one's done. Closed.
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