New Jersey bill aims to ban all handgun, some rifle ammo

Kentucky-75 · January 28, 2012, 12:38 PM

New Jersey Gun Owners Needs Your Help!

NJ ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AMMO BAN & MORE!

A588 would enable the Attorney General to ban handgun and rifle ammunition by executive fiat.

Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!

Additional legislation being considered (A1013) could land gun owners in jail for refinished or damaged firearms that might be deemed “defaced” "

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.p...ammo-ban-more/

(Whether you live in New Jersey or know someone who does. This information needs to get out to everyone.)

Arutyun · January 29, 2012, 12:21 AM

Just stumbled on this article in infowars dot com.

What is your thoughts about it?

http://www.infowars.com/new-jersey-b...me-rifle-ammo/

If we can't take your arms from you, we will take the ammo????

**Aguila Blanca** · January 29, 2012, 10:46 AM

It would appear that NJ is just begging the Supreme Court to take them out behind the woodshed. Now that the SCOTUS has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental, individual right, and the SCOTUS has agreed that a gun that is either taken apart or required to be kept unloaded is not useful for self-defense, I think the SCOTUS would have little patience for a law that doesn't allow ammunition for the exercise of a fundammental right.

Patriot86 · January 29, 2012, 02:07 PM

I feel bad for people in NJ, not only because of laws like this but also because their elected officials would waste millions and millions of dollars fighting for such blatantly unconstitutional laws. I mean just wow the SCOTUS has stuck down stuff like this before, it has affirmed the right to bear arms and this is just banning the dough instead of banning the bread.

Hopefully some sanity shines through and millions of taxpayer dollars are not wasted.

**44 AMP** · January 29, 2012, 02:44 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think NJ already bans hollow points. For carry, at any rate. You can have them at home (maybe?) and you can shoot them on the range (again, maybe?) but you can't carry them "on the street" (which makes one wonder how you get them to the range...)

This is just one more example of how the gun haters are NEVER satisfied, and will use any tactic particularly, "officer safety". And giving the AG the power to make such decisions is simply despotic.

There isn't a single centerfire rifle I can think of that won't penetrate a regular "bulletproof" vest. And since there are "handguns" (T/C single shots) for nearly all rifle calibers, that gives them the opening, even if they specifically said "handgun" ammunition.

Simply leaving such a decision up to a single individual (the AG) puts citizens entirely at the personal whim of that individual, who's opinion would carry the force of law. That is what you have in a Monarchy. That is how a totalitarian state operates. It is, in effect, Fascism. And it doesn't matter if its guns, ammo, or garbage collection, one single man, being able to make law, entirely without any checks or balances is NOT what we want in this country. Unfortunately, some influential folks in NJ seem to think its a good idea. Wonder how they'd feel if it was their ox that was being gored?

cool hand luke 22:36 · January 29, 2012, 03:05 PM

Strangley enough, for a bill that purports to protect LEO's, I doubt the rank and file of NJ law enforcement support this ammo ban.

Tuzo · January 29, 2012, 06:23 PM

1. N.J.S.2C:39-3 is amended to read as follows:

2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices.
a. . . .
b. . . .
c. . . .
d. . . .
e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

Dennis the Menace carried a slingshot in his back pocket for many years. So did I when I was elementary school age. How sad.

ammo.crafter · January 29, 2012, 06:36 PM

My son was hauled out of high school in handcuffs because some one told the principal he had a knife; a Boyscout knife.

Crazy88Fingers · January 29, 2012, 10:47 PM

^ That's zero-tolerance policies for you. It's a good thing they exist, otherwise school administrators would have to make their own decisions based upon thoughts and stuff.

I don't see this ammo ban lasting very long if it makes it to the courts. But I've been wrong before.

war_elephant · January 29, 2012, 11:26 PM

This is the same AG that has stated that Federal Law doesnt apply to NJ. They will pass it reguardless of the opposition, and spend millions to defend it, and then raise taxes to pay for it,

Anyone want to buy a house in NJ?

kozak6 · January 30, 2012, 11:58 PM

I read the proposed legislation.

How could it possibly be interpreted to ban plastic airsoft BB's?

I am baffled.

tet4 · January 31, 2012, 09:27 AM

The way I see this is that it is setting up more perfect test cases for the SCOTUS to establish more precedence. It sucks for the folks living there, but it makes for such a perfect law to challenge. :-) SAF has to be chomping at the bit for them to pass it. :-)

Tuzo · January 31, 2012, 11:55 AM

"Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!"

Same as Kozak, I read the proposed legislation and there is no mention of the items quoted above. The source of the quote is infowars.com taken from another source. It is hyperbole reminiscent of Brady tactics. We should debate facts and not far fetched opinions. Although proposed banning of slingshots is something that is indeed far fetched, even for New Jersey.

war_elephant · January 31, 2012, 10:38 PM

They backed off, and tabled the bill, too much publicity, and too many gun owners faxed, email, called and wrote. Not that they will stop, just wait for a more opportune moment.

Al Norris · January 31, 2012, 11:21 PM

As reported at AmmoLand, A588 (the backdoor ammo ban) was sent back to the drawing board and A1013 (defacing firearms) is drawing much fire.

See also the announcement at Assoxiation of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs.

NJgunowner · February 1, 2012, 01:58 PM

If anyone cares to listen to the deposition NJ2AS posted a link on their website, and I'll post it here. The deposition is public domain hosted by NJ gov and doesn't violate any copy right laws that I know of. The woman who proprosed the bill sounds, and I'm trying to be nice, ignorant. How she got elected to anything is beyond me. It's an interesting listen, it's about 33 minutes long and the rest is other items. But it gives you a very good idea as to what NJ gun owners are up against.

http://rmserver.njleg.state.nj.us/in...200PM-M0-1.wma

cannonfire · February 1, 2012, 04:40 PM

I moved up to NJ to finish school at Rutgers, leaving my guns locked up at my mother's house in Georgia which was actually the hardest part about leaving the South... leaving the guns. But this is just ridiculous. Hopefully I will be able to finish in a year so that I can move back down and cradle my ar that took me a year to build and have only put 150 rounds through...

I dont see this holding up but stranger things have happened.. I even had a cop tell me to just bring my guns and ammo up, that its not like they are going to be kicking in more door as long as i dont go waving them around... now i'm not going to do that but I think that it shows that at least some LEOs think the gun/ammo restriction is retarded as well.

Cindyann · February 1, 2012, 07:20 PM

I am glad that they decided to table (temporarily I am sure), but why would they even try to pass something like this when they know for a FACT that the Supreme Court will overturn it? Is it just a ploy to get votes on the premise that they are making the state "safer"?

NJgunowner · February 1, 2012, 09:33 PM

Actually Cannon it is legal for you to bring firearms to NJ as long as they don't fall into the "banned" list and you have a permanent non campus address. The problem is fully 80% of the cops and DA's in this state don't seem to realize that the Firearms ID cards is STRICTLY a purchasers permit, NOT a license required to own firearms.

cannonfire · February 2, 2012, 01:00 PM

PM sent

NJgunowner · February 2, 2012, 01:07 PM

I'll clarify one thing, you must be a NJ RESIDENT. I'm not sure students are considered RESIDENTS.

January 28, 2012, 12:38 PM	#1
Kentucky-75 Member Join Date: October 22, 2011 Posts: 31	New Jersey Gun Owners Needs Your Help! New Jersey Gun Owners Needs Your Help! NJ ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AMMO BAN & MORE! A588 would enable the Attorney General to ban handgun and rifle ammunition by executive fiat. Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets! Additional legislation being considered (A1013) could land gun owners in jail for refinished or damaged firearms that might be deemed “defaced” " http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.p...ammo-ban-more/ (Whether you live in New Jersey or know someone who does. This information needs to get out to everyone.)

January 29, 2012, 02:44 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think NJ already bans hollow points. For carry, at any rate. You can have them at home (maybe?) and you can shoot them on the range (again, maybe?) but you can't carry them "on the street" (which makes one wonder how you get them to the range...) This is just one more example of how the gun haters are NEVER satisfied, and will use any tactic particularly, "officer safety". And giving the AG the power to make such decisions is simply despotic. There isn't a single centerfire rifle I can think of that won't penetrate a regular "bulletproof" vest. And since there are "handguns" (T/C single shots) for nearly all rifle calibers, that gives them the opening, even if they specifically said "handgun" ammunition. Simply leaving such a decision up to a single individual (the AG) puts citizens entirely at the personal whim of that individual, who's opinion would carry the force of law. That is what you have in a Monarchy. That is how a totalitarian state operates. It is, in effect, Fascism. And it doesn't matter if its guns, ammo, or garbage collection, one single man, being able to make law, entirely without any checks or balances is NOT what we want in this country. Unfortunately, some influential folks in NJ seem to think its a good idea. Wonder how they'd feel if it was their ox that was being gored? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 29, 2012, 06:23 PM	#7
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	Slingshots too 1. N.J.S.2C:39-3 is amended to read as follows: 2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices. a. . . . b. . . . c. . . . d. . . . e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. Dennis the Menace carried a slingshot in his back pocket for many years. So did I when I was elementary school age. How sad.

January 29, 2012, 06:36 PM	#8
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	the Garden State My son was hauled out of high school in handcuffs because some one told the principal he had a knife; a Boyscout knife. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

January 29, 2012, 10:47 PM	#9
Crazy88Fingers Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: WesTex Posts: 958	^ That's zero-tolerance policies for you. It's a good thing they exist, otherwise school administrators would have to make their own decisions based upon thoughts and stuff. I don't see this ammo ban lasting very long if it makes it to the courts. But I've been wrong before. __________________ "And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44" -Lynyrd Skynyrd

January 29, 2012, 12:21 AM	#2
Arutyun Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 23	Just stumbled on this article in infowars dot com. What is your thoughts about it? http://www.infowars.com/new-jersey-b...me-rifle-ammo/ If we can't take your arms from you, we will take the ammo????

January 29, 2012, 10:46 AM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	It would appear that NJ is just begging the Supreme Court to take them out behind the woodshed. Now that the SCOTUS has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental, individual right, and the SCOTUS has agreed that a gun that is either taken apart or required to be kept unloaded is not useful for self-defense, I think the SCOTUS would have little patience for a law that doesn't allow ammunition for the exercise of a fundammental right.

January 29, 2012, 02:07 PM	#4
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	I feel bad for people in NJ, not only because of laws like this but also because their elected officials would waste millions and millions of dollars fighting for such blatantly unconstitutional laws. I mean just wow the SCOTUS has stuck down stuff like this before, it has affirmed the right to bear arms and this is just banning the dough instead of banning the bread. Hopefully some sanity shines through and millions of taxpayer dollars are not wasted.

January 29, 2012, 03:05 PM	#6
cool hand luke 22:36 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 768	Strangley enough, for a bill that purports to protect LEO's, I doubt the rank and file of NJ law enforcement support this ammo ban.

January 29, 2012, 11:26 PM	#10
war_elephant Member Join Date: June 29, 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 70	This is the same AG that has stated that Federal Law doesnt apply to NJ. They will pass it reguardless of the opposition, and spend millions to defend it, and then raise taxes to pay for it, Anyone want to buy a house in NJ? __________________ Marine, Retired LEO, Firearms Instructor, Life Member NRA Tea Party Member, and general all around trouble maker.

January 30, 2012, 11:58 PM	#11
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I read the proposed legislation. How could it possibly be interpreted to ban plastic airsoft BB's? I am baffled.

January 31, 2012, 09:27 AM	#12
tet4 Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2009 Posts: 232	The way I see this is that it is setting up more perfect test cases for the SCOTUS to establish more precedence. It sucks for the folks living there, but it makes for such a perfect law to challenge. :-) SAF has to be chomping at the bit for them to pass it. :-)

January 31, 2012, 11:55 AM	#13
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	"Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!" Same as Kozak, I read the proposed legislation and there is no mention of the items quoted above. The source of the quote is infowars.com taken from another source. It is hyperbole reminiscent of Brady tactics. We should debate facts and not far fetched opinions. Although proposed banning of slingshots is something that is indeed far fetched, even for New Jersey.

January 31, 2012, 10:38 PM	#14
war_elephant Member Join Date: June 29, 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 70	They backed off, and tabled the bill, too much publicity, and too many gun owners faxed, email, called and wrote. Not that they will stop, just wait for a more opportune moment. __________________ Marine, Retired LEO, Firearms Instructor, Life Member NRA Tea Party Member, and general all around trouble maker.

January 31, 2012, 11:21 PM	#15
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	As reported at AmmoLand, A588 (the backdoor ammo ban) was sent back to the drawing board and A1013 (defacing firearms) is drawing much fire. See also the announcement at Assoxiation of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs.

February 1, 2012, 01:58 PM	#16
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	If anyone cares to listen to the deposition NJ2AS posted a link on their website, and I'll post it here. The deposition is public domain hosted by NJ gov and doesn't violate any copy right laws that I know of. The woman who proprosed the bill sounds, and I'm trying to be nice, ignorant. How she got elected to anything is beyond me. It's an interesting listen, it's about 33 minutes long and the rest is other items. But it gives you a very good idea as to what NJ gun owners are up against. http://rmserver.njleg.state.nj.us/in...200PM-M0-1.wma

February 1, 2012, 07:20 PM	#18
Cindyann Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Posts: 44	I am glad that they decided to table (temporarily I am sure), but why would they even try to pass something like this when they know for a FACT that the Supreme Court will overturn it? Is it just a ploy to get votes on the premise that they are making the state "safer"? __________________ http://www.gunmerchantaccount.com 2nd Amendment Firearm Credit Card Processing

February 1, 2012, 09:33 PM	#19
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	Actually Cannon it is legal for you to bring firearms to NJ as long as they don't fall into the "banned" list and you have a permanent non campus address. The problem is fully 80% of the cops and DA's in this state don't seem to realize that the Firearms ID cards is STRICTLY a purchasers permit, NOT a license required to own firearms.

February 2, 2012, 01:07 PM	#21
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	I'll clarify one thing, you must be a NJ RESIDENT. I'm not sure students are considered RESIDENTS.