looking for a shotgun for home defense

[flyby]

Defensive Birdieshot? ..Hmm ...
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

[alfred]

The folk whom I personally find the most ?????????? are the ones who find opposing opinions ridiculous,stupid and so forth.Folks judge others by their own standards.I would be proud of anyone hoisting a BS flag on any of my post.It would say all that is really needed about me and them.We are here to learn and share.Only those who know everything have no use for a opposing opinion as they already know it all.Someone agreeing with what I believe teaches me nothing as I already believe that I know it.

The following is true and I am not kidding.I am terminally ill and handicapped mentally at times and physically.I have been stupid all of my life and I knew it.I am now mentally retarded when on medication and slow.I know it.Yes,this scares me.What scares me even worse is the many folk who I believe that are like me or worse that do not know it.I always try to remember this.Think about this and look around.

I do not handle guns when consuming any substance that affects me mentally.I do not handle any disassembled firearms parts within 24 hours of doing so and 24 to inspect,load or assembled one.I have observed many in my lifetime who do handle and shoot them under the influence.I have seen some do this who wore local,state and federal Badges do so in my life time.

What condition can you be in in a emergency?Think about it.They often happen at the very worst of times.

I do not believe that the "Has Beens" can ever compete with or should ever argue with the"Are not",Never will and "Never Was".It is a waste of time and space for all.

Experience can never compete with a "scenario",the "hypothetical".or the "what if" as it is always bound to the "what actually happened to you".

Until you have been all,can you ever really conceive this?I could not,so I do not expect such from others.

I believe many folk get tunnel vision and tunnel mind.Some love it in there,some outside of it.

Do some only see the fear of under penetrating and not killing while others fear over penetration and killing the innocent?I believe so.

I have been around guns and gun people all of my life.Most I felt comfortable around and a few scared the heck out of me.I felt a danger to all in some.I stay away from such as much as possible.The folks I hunted and shot with did too,so I have little experience with such.I did read of the problems such expertise led to for some.Some ended in court and often prison terms."My bunch" with my beliefs have never "Accidentally" killed or injured someone so far.It was always deliberate.

I did and do have one friend who deliberately killed someone and served 3 1/2 years for it.I and many others feel safe around him.I do know better than to betray him,rob him and then ridicule him to his face about doing it.Stupid people do get killed by nice folk at times.This was a plea bargain offered by the state as they had little chance of convicting him.I do believe he has all of his "Rights" restored as do you and I.

"looking for a shotgun for home defense" was the title of this thread.Killing folks seems to be the mind set of some with the complete disregard for all other.It is legal to shoot a intruder in my state.It is not legal to recklessly endanger or kill others while doing so.

Please choose the weapon that you can handle in a emergency.Also the choice of the shot is a responsibility."Over" or "under" penetration and bodily harm or death to any innocent is clear proof of a lack of that responsibility.You will be examined and held responsible for your actions.A intruder in your home is not a license to shoot or kill anyone but that intruder in the states which allow such.Forget this and you can be shut away until you learn this by 12 of your fellow citizens.

Experienced hunters every year try to shoot with a safety on.I was much more excited every time someone was trying to kill me than I have ever been with game in my sight.Everyone else I know has been too.Choose for you,not what others like.Can you operate your defensive weapon ANYTIME blindfolded.If not,you should learn or go to one you can.alfred

[Rampant_Colt]

Originally Posted by GunCrazyinGa

looking for a shotgun for home defense


I am new to the shotgun scene. I have a few handguns and a Rock River Arms AR-15, but I am looking a good, reliable shotgun, in either a pump or semi. I need some help to figure out which would be a good one to go with.

This combo set will cover over 90% of hunting and self-defense situations in North America:

/thread


since the OP hasn't replied back in his/her own thread...

[King Ghidora]

I think most folks just believe that using ammo that has the best chance of getting the job done is the way to go alfred. That's what I think. Here where I live it's very unlikely that I would shoot anyone other than an intruder because of over penetration. I could easily hit someone else with a rifle or pistol of course which is why I've always used a shotgun as my primary home defense weapon. If a person is in your house there's no doubt that birdshot will do great damage to that person. But buckshot will do more. If I lived in an apartment or in the inner city somewhere I'd worry about stray bullets. But I don't. I live in the country where I can walk out my door and shoot all day long in most directions with any weapon and not worry. Of course I wouldn't be shooting over a ridge line with a high powered rifle but I could certainly shoot a lot of directions with that rifle without worrying.

Best wishes to you alfred. I'll include you in my prayers today. I faced death about 20 years ago. I had stage 4 cancer and was told I had 6 months to live. Only God knows for sure when we will be taken from this world. I hope you can keep that in mind and maybe you'll get a miracle like I did.

I said from the start that we share a lot in how we grew up. I'm from the country just like you. I understand how country people think because I'm one of them. But sometimes we're more skeptical than we should be. Sometimes people can do what they say they can do. I'd bet most of your friends can shoot pretty well and some of them can shoot real well. It's like that everywhere people are real familiar with guns.

As for that 870 covering 90% of all self defense and hunting situations that's probably true. But they won't do you a lot of good inside a car. You need a sidearm for that. If you can get out of your vehicle it's nice to have that 870 with you for sure. Yeah I know it's likely going to cause severe hearing damage to fire a large caliber handgun in a car but being deaf beats being dead.

[LanceOregon]

So this whole birdshot kills thing has to be BS.

Why? It's simple, Harry Whittington got shot, in the face, I might add, by Dick Cheney, and he was pretty much fine. And that guy was 78 years old for pete's sake.

Sorry, it was irresistable.
danweasel

Well, your comemnts only go to show how very little you know about the Cheney shooting incident.

Cheney was somewhere around 90 ft from Whittington when he shot him. Cheney was using a very small caliber shotgun: a 28 gauge. The shell he used was also loaded with very small birdshot: #8 size. They were shooting small quail, and used small gauge guns in order to avoid damaging the meat on the tiny birds too much.

Despite the long range, the small caliber of the shotgun, and the tiny shot size, Whittington was knocked down by the blast. In fact, the owner of the ranch, Katharine Armstrong, was quoted in the news media as saying that the shotgun blast: "Knocked him silly."

The notion that a much larger gauge shotgun ( 12 gauge ), loaded with a far heavier shot charge, and using much bigger birdshot, is not going to be effective at 30 ft ( a third the range of the Cheney shooting ) flies against all logic, science, and facts.

Here is what a heavy field load ( 1 1/4 oz ) of #6 shot did to a chukar that I shot at about 40 ft. I had messed up and used too tight a choke tube in my shotgun at the time ( a light modified ), for shooting that particular load at such a close range. It was actually a load designed for duck hunting, and patterned more tightly than your average load.

We never could find any evidence of the bird's head anywhere. The bird's entire body was shredded, and just a gooey mass.





If you feel that #4 size shot is inadequate, try #2 or BB shot. A lot of hunters kill coyotes very cleanly at some pretty long ranges with #2 shot and BB shot loads.


.

[LanceOregon]

Using a handgun for home defense is just as bad as the birdshot suggestion. A shotgun trumps a handgun in that scenario unless you actively get out of your strong position to pursue a home invader with your gun. You could argue that a shotgun could be more easily grabbed by a bad guy as well.

If you've ever been in a home invasion scenario you would know how miniscule a puny little handgun feels to you.

A shotgun is a superior weapon with which to confront a doped-up burglar

Rampant Colt: I could not disagree with you more. A handgun makes far better sense for self-defense inside a home.

For one, a handgun is far more easily stored in a safe and secure location, where it can be more easily accessed in an emergency. A handgun in your hand always trumps a shotgun that is nearby every time.

Secondly, maneuvering inside a home with even the most compact shotguns is difficult at best. A handgun is going to be much easier to use in such tight quarters. Perhaps you live in a huge home that has wide hallways. However, I don't.

The notion that good high quality defensive handgun ammo will not stop an attacker is also very faulty. My Glock 17 is loaded with 18 rounds of +P+ law enforcement ammo. I've had this gun for some time now, and can shoot it very fast and accurately. I also keep a spare mag with it.

Again, my shotgun is only my emergency backup weapon, and is hidden away inside a closet. All of the rest of my guns are locked up.

I trust my life to my Glock. I would pity anyone trying to break into my house:

[LanceOregon]

Killing folks seems to be the mind set of some with the complete disregard for all other.It is legal to shoot a intruder in my state.It is not legal to recklessly endanger or kill others while doing so.

That is very well put. I've struggled a lot with the idea of being justified in killing another human being. However, if someone has broken into my home, and is aggressively coming towards me, then I think one is pretty much forced to use lethal force at that point. My posture will certainly just be defensive in nature. In order for a confrontation to take place, an intruder will certainly have to force the issue with me.

Outside my home, I never go anywhere without my Taser since I bought it last year. Just as I consider my Glock my primary home defense weapon, and my shotgun my emergency backup, I now consider my Taser to be my primary defensive weapon outside my home, and my Kahr PM-9 is only my emergency backup for it.

.

[alfred]

I am only familure with lazers for pointers,leveling,measuring, and such other uses found in the industral,security and many other fields.

Many seem to use them as sights.Seems great for shooting.Would these not make one a exelent target just as the mounted lights did/do at night?alfred

[alfred]

Professional hunters and law enforcement for over a century have chosen doubles in rifles and shotguns for close defensive purposes.When going in the brush or thicket after Lion,Leopard,Tiger,Russian Bear,Black Bear or Grizzly,the double barrel shotgun has been the gun of choice for most of these.It is the simplest,most dependable and fasted fired and maneuvered.It can be operated and reloaded one handed.I have hunted with one armed double and single barrel hunters.You can not short shuck a double!

The pump gun became popular for two main reasons.#1 CHEAPER than the double.#2 FIREPOWER.The multiple shots needed for military and police gunfights.These folk are never one handed.If they get that way with a pump,they are in trouble.Low bids choose these weapons for law enforcement and the military.Few percentage wise now days are very familiar with or trained with other shotguns.

Food for thought in looking for a shotgun for home defense.

[6thMichCav]

This is a fantastic thread. I never knew being shot with a shotgun could be so easy or so much fun!

Reminds me of a chapter in one of Capstick's books. I may have some of my facts wrong, so someone with a copy can correct me. Seems Capstick was hunting birds with a 20-gauge O/U, and a lioness with a snare problem decided to re-arrange his looks. Capstick pasted her (I believe he said "pasted") from about 4-feet with the first available barrel, loaded with #8 shot, and although her "momentum knocked (him) down," she was quite dead when he got up.

Darned good thing we don't have to defend our homes from lions, so I realize that some may not think this example is pertinent at all.

When I feel like getting in arguments with people over caliber, range, shot, I always stop and think, "okay, at what range, speed and caliber/gauge would I like to get shot?" And my answer is almost never an argument.

By the way, I think the head of the bird in the recent post is "over there somewhere."

Keep 'em coming, too much fun reading!

[oneounceload]

Gun Crazy - back to your question - since you admit to no real experience with shotguns, I would recommend some lessons/training in their use so you can see their benefits and limitations...once done, you should be able to determine what will work best for you....personally, my hd shotgun lies in a closet, my 357, is inches away - what I feel more comfortable with.....your view might be different

[WacosSon]

Well, your comemnts only go to show how very little you know about the Cheney shooting incident.

Cheney was somewhere around 90 ft from Whittington when he shot him. Cheney was using a very small caliber shotgun: a 28 gauge. The shell he used was also loaded with very small birdshot: #8 size. They were shooting small quail, and used small gauge guns in order to avoid damaging the meat on the tiny birds too much.

Despite the long range, the small caliber of the shotgun, and the tiny shot size, Whittington was knocked down by the blast. In fact, the owner of the ranch, Katharine Armstrong, was quoted in the news media as saying that the shotgun blast: "Knocked him silly."

The notion that a much larger gauge shotgun ( 12 gauge ), loaded with a far heavier shot charge, and using much bigger birdshot, is not going to be effective at 30 ft ( a third the range of the Cheney shooting ) flies against all logic, science, and facts.

Here is what a heavy field load ( 1 1/4 oz ) of #6 shot did to a chukar that I shot at about 40 ft. I had messed up and used too tight a choke tube in my shotgun at the time ( a light modified ), for shooting that particular load at such a close range. It was actually a load designed for duck hunting, and patterned more tightly than your average load.

We never could find any evidence of the bird's head anywhere. The bird's entire body was shredded, and just a gooey mass.

Don't mean to change the subject completely, but this begs correction...

LanceOregon: It's obvious that you believe everything you're told. If you truly hunted as much as you claim you do, and have the understanding that you claim, then you would realize that someone shooting #8 birdshot out of a 28 at 90 feet away would do nothing more than bounce 2-3 pellets off of their skin and penetrate no clothing. IT CERTAINLY WOULD NOT KNOCK THEM DOWN, OR SILLY.

Lance Oregon can live in denial: for the rest of you...truth:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=721Jy6XYtMg

[R.Childs]

I find it odd that the "expert" in the video wouldn't shoot the dummy at the closer ranges. Hmmmm.....wonder why? Because it would debunk the very thing he's trying to debunk.

I agree with the video that he was shot a lot closer than 30 yards. More like 30 feet.

For all you naysayers about birdshot not working as a home defense load, I disagree with you. Keyword here is Home Defense. That means ranges that birdshot would be used would be inside of a room inside your house.

I challenge you naysayers to take your shotguns and shoot something, most anything, at a range of 15ft or go out to 20ft. Give it a try, I think you will be surprised. At that range the shot are still so condensed together that the mass of shot act as a solid projectile(much like a slug) and will do serious damage to tissue or anything else it hits.

Don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

I have shot thousands of shotgun rounds at game, skeet, etc. I've seen up close and personal the damage done by close range shotgun blasts with birdshot. It will stop a person in his tracks at close range(15ft or closer).

With that said, I do keep buckshot in my shotgun for home defense. If I didn't have buckshot though, I would use birdshot at these ranges. And I would pick that over a pistol anyday.

The video is crap. If he wanted to make a statement, he should have been shooting ballistic gelatin. Not rubber dummies and watermelons.

[WacosSon]

The video is crap. If he wanted to make a statement, he should have been shooting ballistic gelatin. Not rubber dummies and watermelons.

I think he made his statement - the situation was lied about. The dummies sufficed for what he was trying to prove. He didn't set out to prove how far it was, he set out to prove that what was told to the American public was a lie. He didn't need to shoot any closer, because the point was already made.

That being said, I would agree, I would take even birdshot over a pistol if it's all I had.

[oneounceload]

LanceOregon: It's obvious that you believe everything you're told. If you truly hunted as much as you claim you do, and have the understanding that you claim, then you would realize that someone shooting #8 birdshot out of a 28 at 90 feet away would do nothing more than bounce 2-3 pellets off of their skin and penetrate no clothing. IT CERTAINLY WOULD NOT KNOCK THEM DOWN, OR SILLY.

HUH?

at 90 feet, 30 yards, a 28 is very lethal on birds - if it can penetrate feathers and skin on them, it most certainly will do do to a face, and it would be more than 2 or 3 pellets - there are approximately 307 in a 3/4 oz. load of #8's.....

[WacosSon]

HUH?

at 90 feet, 30 yards, a 28 is very lethal on birds - if it can penetrate feathers and skin on them, it most certainly will do do to a face, and it would be more than 2 or 3 pellets - there are approximately 307 in a 3/4 oz. load of #8's.....

You obviously didn't read up and find out that WE were talking about people. Not birds....

[oneounceload]

wow, such condescension.....how amazing there......I own 28 gauges, and they do just fine at 30 yards....if someone can take a pheasant at that range, the shot will break more than the skin....is it the best for HD??...no, but it will work better than nothing; change your attitude

[King Ghidora]

I don't have a single doubt that birdshot at close range (like inside my house) would do very serious damage to a human. The thing is that buckshot would do more. That's the reason I prefer buckshot.

As far as pistols go for home defense it's just wrong to think they can't be effective. You have to be able to hit what you're shooting at but a .45 will certainly do great damage to any person it hits. The .45 was extensively tested as a round by the Army before it was chosen as a battlefield weapon for officers. If you hit what you're shooting at with a .45 it will most certainly do tremendous damage to them especially if you're using hollow point ammunition. It may not as easy to hit an intruder in the heat of battle but at close range it isn't all that easy to hit someone with a shotgun either especially if that intruder is moving quickly. You may not have a clear space to swing your shotgun around. That is rarely a problem with a pistol. Plus you have the benefit of having a lot more tries at hitting a target with the pistol if it's like most modern automatic pistols where you have large magazines and multiple magazines.

A .45 might not do the damage a shotgun will but IMO it will certainly do enough damage especially if you shoot it multiple times. I don't believe it's any harder to hit a target with a handgun inside a house and in fact it's easier because you get more chances. The main complaint I would have about firing a .45 indoors is that I would probably suffer hearing damage.

I actually prefer shooting a shotgun at an intruder because I don't want to hit a neighbor and a shotgun is far less likely to do so. But I don't have a lot of neighbors so I would use my .45 if needed but I would be wary of the direction I was firing.

I've been shooting since I was seven years old and I'm now 52. I think I've learned a few things along the way. I believe I have a much better chance of hitting an intruder with a handgun because it is far easier to follow the movement of that intruder with a handgun.

I actually keep several weapons ready to be fired at an intruder. I have my tactics planned out and I keep my guns stored in keeping with my plans. I don't believe I would have any trouble at all using a handgun to defend my house even though over the years I have counted more on my shotguns than any handguns I've had. But with a .45 I think that equation changes because of the deadly force that comes from that bullet. I think I can use my shotguns to shoot intruders who might hide behind walls by simply firing through the walls. Which weapon I ultimately would end up using would depend more on the situation I would face. If I was near my shotgun I would go with it. If I was near my handgun I would choose it. If I had my choice I'd probably choose my .45 now but in the past I would have chosen a shotgun.

A good defensive position and a good plan for firing at intruders means more than a choice of weapons IMO as long as the weapons are effective. I will be hiding behind my oven which is behind my bar if you plan on invading my house. It will give me a fire zone no matter which direction an intruder might choose to go. I hope to have both my shotgun and handgun there. Which weapon I use depends on several factors that will only be apparent when the heat is on.

[imp]

Somehow this turned into a birdshot vs. buckshot thread. I want to offer one thought...people regularly trust their lives with self-defense products like pepperspray, stun-guns, tasers, and I swear that at close range, I will take the smallest game load over any of those options. It may not turn a BG into hamburger in .02 seconds, but at close range it will certainly stop him long enough to pump another round into him COM...

[sesquipedalian101]

Boy Howdy, there's lots of places to jump in here; I am "picking on" this quote solely because it mentions several topics to which I'd like to respond. Please don't take the choice personally

Originally Posted by WacosSon

I couldn't disagree more with LanceOregon. Not only is the shotgun the best weapon for home defense,

Okay, to me "Home Defense" means more than forting up the castle and standing off the invaders. There are a variety of scenarios; for some a shotgun would be the best choice; for most, I think not.

Shotgun advantages:
1) Generally more powerful (larger gauges only; .410 is wimpy compared to hand gun of similar caliber).
2) At least in trained hands, is more suitable for use as a weapon after the magazine is empty (can you say "Butt Stroke"?)
3) More intimidating to the BG (Nothing like the sound of a pump slide racking)
4) Less likely to kill the family member in the next room (here is where we say "birdshot" -- like #4 -- not that I'm advocating it)

Shotgun disadvantages:
1) generally have fewer rounds and/or are slower to reload.
2) have long barrels and are comparatively heavy (the same thing that makes them a good club once they are empty means they are slower to "swing" than a handgun and, in low light crowded room conditions you may not be able to bring one to bear quickly enough after you've knocked over the lamp while swinging onto the target)
3) They are NOT "scatter guns" (you do have to be relatively precise, or lucky, with one to achieve a fight-stopping hit; they are not a "spray and pray" weapon)
4) Despite requiring an aim, they are not precise enough (BG is standing behind wife w/knife or gun to her throat, you have 1/2 of his face showing past her head & most of his body covered by hers, can you pick him off w/o injuring or killing DW with your 00 Buck shot? I can with my .44 mag...)
5) If one or more BGs kick in your door when you are not alert -- or knock on the door and bust it in when you answer through the night chain, do you have your shotgun to hand? or do you have to "go running for it"? My handgun is on my person at home; I don't have to run to storage and grab it. Even if I granted shotguns to be superior in all situations once in your hands, they still are not convenient to carry. Do you sit down to dinner with the shotgun at your side? Sling it as you vacuum the floor? Mr. Handgun can "be there" through all these activities. Check out this home invasion report http://www.wlky.com/video/16509601/index.html If Billy Jackson had possessed a shotgun instead of his handgun, he'd probably be dead.)

Originally Posted by WacosSon

but a pump action is your best bet as well.

+1

I'll second that! IF (notice, its a big IF) you are going to use a shotgun for HD, I think a Slide Action, with an exposed hammer, the best choice. It can be stored with a round in the chamber and still have no tension on the firing pin. (Pick my favorite, the Model '97 and it will "slam fire" meaning you can get "cycle times" that compare favorably with a semi-auto)...

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Most people in your home are not going to be very trained on firearms.

Sorry to disappoint, but even though my boys started "later" than I did in my youth; all were passable shots by the age of six. All three (youngest is now 18) are now excellent shots and extremely safe with firearms. IMnsHO, starting them early is the BEST way to make them proficient AND safe. Oh, despite our self-proclaimed prowess, nobody shoots against MOM with money or doing dishes on the line...

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Trying to get a person who doesn't hardly know how to shoot a gun to accurately hit a moving target with a standard handgun is absurd. No...its impossible.

Not much better with a shotgun...

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Not to mention a handgun can be easily wrestled from someone

If they are close enough to wrestle, they are close enough to shoot w/o aiming...

Originally Posted by WacosSon

and doesn't frighten many people away.

One of my favorite G.G. Liddy stories is about the time that Mrs. Liddy confronted a burglar. She got between him and the kids with her .357 and ordered the man to leave. He looked at her and laughed so she pointed her revolver at the man, eared back the hammer and said, "Now watch closely, children, as Mommy makes the bad man's head explode." Whereupon, the fellow wet himself and ran from their apartment.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Even if someone does get a hit off, who's to say that hit is actually going to stop a BG who is now pissed at being shot.

Unfortunately, there is no complete guarantee of stopping the fellow even with a shotgun. If I can get close enough to lay hands upon someone's firearm "wrestle" with them for control, I'd much rather it be a shotgun than a handgun. Sure, the handgun is harder to hang on to -- for both of us; it also has a higher probability (once I am that close) of winding up with its barrel pointed at me for the next trigger pull.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

A shotgun however, detaches people from their target.

Huh?

Originally Posted by WacosSon

It spreads,

Not much -- though just enough to make taking out the BG w/o destroying your TV, stereo, and the family-member being use as a shield problematic at best.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

requires little aim

requires as much as any other firearm & requires more time to do it.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

and is scary as hell. A pump has the tell-tale action slam that makes BG's run

+1
That is, perhaps, their biggest advantage....

Originally Posted by WacosSon

and is hard to wrestle away, especially if you're at the business end.

Uh, no. If the BG can get that close, a shotgun is much easier to control than a handgun. Once I have my hand on the barrel, I have leverage. If I get a second hand on the gun, I actually have an advantage over the shooter. If our strength is anywhere near equal, I am going to rotate the firearm and his finger (presumably inside the trigger guard) is going to go "pop." If I have, say, an edged weapon and I get a hand on the barrel of the shotgun your wife is holding, I'm going to use the leverage to keep the barrel pointed away from me while I start carving. She will have to keep both hands on the shotgun -- or lose it... Handgun? Well, even if I am that close, grabbing the gun is a lot harder -- its a smaller target -- and I'm more likely to get shot in the process -- even if I come in from the side as I would with a shotgun.

Of course, there are techniques for handling someone with a handgun too (stick your finger inside the trigger guard WITH theirs, use both hands to rotate the firearm towards them, and pull the trigger yourself) -- but those are far more problematic for the person who didn't originally possess the firearm. The shotgun is kind of like a fencing foil -- get inside the point, and you have reduced its effectiveness 95%. The same, of course, is true of a handgun; but, it is a lot harder to get close enough to get "inside" the point.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

I also FIRMLY disagree with his recommendation of #4 birdshot. I take that back - I think its a ridiculously STUPID recommendation. Birdshot slows people down and pisses them off. It'll hurt them, but not necessarily stop them. If a BG is in your house coming at you, you don't want to make him run, you want to STOP him. The only thing really good for that is a good buckshot. I recommend #2 because I've seen the studies and it does more damage. Slugs are great for stopping power, but don't spread, so its the same principle as a handgun.

Which is the main argument for having slugs: you get back precision. If you have the magazine capacity, and are set on using a shotgun, consider alternating shot and slugs. Oh, and if you really want maximum "stopping power" consider forgoing the buckshot in favor of "buck and ball" -- an antiquated load design that has fallen out of favor because its major purpose was killing people, not hunting. It makes a very effective load, but you probably have to load it yourself these days.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Course, down a hallway you don't need much spread but I'd rather not take my chances. I don't worry too much about magazine load. My mossy 500 holds 5+1 and loaded with buck there's no way I'll need more than 2 shots.

Unless he's wearing a vest; unless there's three or four of them; unless you miss; unless; unless; unless...

Originally Posted by WacosSon

It comes down to this. I know my wife, like many of our women couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun, but you put a shotgun in their hand and they feel much more confident - they'll hit anything close.

My wife regularly packs a Black Widow .22 mag. She gets ribbed periodically for carrying a "sissy gun" -- but on her petite frame it is about all she can reliably conceal. For those who tease her too much, she keeps the first target she ever shot with it -- a circle drawn around a quarter with a Sharpie (tm) and perforated with five (5) neat little holes through the middle of the circle from 45 feet (the length of our barn's "broadside"). Usually showing this and inviting them to compete against her (for doing the dishes) will shut them up. If not, it's always nice to have a good conversation while washing and drying. (Of course, the Black Widow is her "going to town" gun; at home or out riding, its her .357 SAA in open carry.)

I'd suggest that if your wife cannot hit the broadside of a barn, you let her try from inside that barn If that doesn't work, spend some hours at the range. While it takes a lot of time to become an excellent shot, nearly anyone (even your wife) can become a good shot with relatively little range time. Have her spend time with "dry practice" at home -- get the presentation and sight picture and trigger control RIGHT, then go to the range to verify that she's got it. It takes surprisingly little time to get good -- then she has something that she can carry instead of something she has to "run for" when trouble arises.

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Managed-Recoil buckshot doesn't kick much harder than a #7 dove load, plus with all that adrenaline, you won't feel it anyway. If a BG comes into my house, he's not running out, he's leaving on a gurney.

+1

Originally Posted by WacosSon

Last recommendation: train your spouse and any kids of age how to use your firearms. Teach em how to load it, unjam it, clean it, fire it, and hold it. Help them get over their fear so when the time comes, they know EXACTLY what to do. A HD weapon doesn't do much if you don't know how to use it.

+10
EXACTLY! This should mean that your wife AND your kids CAN hit the broad side of a barn (even from the outside) or anything else they need to shoot...

Oh, and one last advantage of a handgun. My kids could shoot one decently before they were six; they were, on average, about 8 to 9 before they could reliably hold and aim the 12 gauge.

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