NFA approvals have stalled?

Mobuck · January 25, 2017, 06:39 AM

I dunno if this is due to the election or just the winter doldrums but it seems not much is happening with the processing. SilencerShop has been stuck on the same approval dates for quite a while and our latest call resulted in a ho-hum "Don't bother us until at least 8 months after submission".

KennyFSU · January 25, 2017, 07:52 AM

When did you file? What form? I was lucky and got my F4 (trust) back in 7 months, check cashed 4/29/16.

9x19 · January 25, 2017, 11:49 AM

Two form 4s submitted on 5/2/16: one approved on 1/7/17; the second approved on 1/9/17.

The flood before 41F took effect has them buried, I suppose.

Chainsaw. · January 25, 2017, 01:58 PM

Shooting with some guys this weekend, lots of stamps between them, one guy was a year into a suppressor stamp. Guess Id better get mine in sooner than later

Mobuck · January 25, 2017, 07:03 PM

"When did you file? What form?"
Bought through Silencer Shop with a trust around 6-1-16. As I said latest comment from them was "Don't bother calling again until 8 months".

**44 AMP** · January 25, 2017, 11:00 PM

A Friend of mine got his SBR tax stamp last week. Approx time since filing, 10 months.

edit to add:
Spoke to my friend last night, and I got it wrong. His wait was 8 months, almost to the day.

dogtown tom · January 28, 2017, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Mobuck I dunno if this is due to the election or just the winter doldrums but it seems not much is happening with the processing. SilencerShop has been stuck on the same approval dates for quite a while and our latest call resulted in a ho-hum "Don't bother us until at least 8 months after submission".

<----Silencer Shop Powered By Dealer
SS only knows approval dates on Form 4's that THEY receive. And that's precious few because they no longer do retail sales.

An approved Form 4 is never seen by Silencer Shop. It goes straight from ATF to the Powered By dealer designated by the buyer.

If you think the slowdown in approval times is due to the election or winter doldrums you need to catch up on what 41F caused.

Mobuck · January 29, 2017, 08:59 AM

"If you think the slowdown in approval times is due to the election or winter doldrums you need to catch up on what 41F caused."

Ah yes, 41F. I've worked for a couple of government agencies and in cases of heavy workload(anticipated or not) swapping workers, authorizing more hours, or shifting schedules often helped cut delays in service.
Someone needs to explain why, in this era of instant information access, it takes months to determine that some bad guy isn't trying to illegally obtain an NFA item. Crooks don't go through these channels to get stuff like that-they steal it or just have some shady machine shop make it.

Chainsaw. · January 29, 2017, 11:36 AM

Its because of a law that was put into place a while back. My RAM is glitchy so I cant recall who pushed the bill through but it made it so the ATF could NOT have a central listing on firearms purchases, (read electronic) must be paper. Hence the shipping containers full of back logged forms. Hence the months long waits.

Mobuck · January 29, 2017, 08:29 PM

"Its because of a law that was put into place a while back. My RAM is glitchy so I cant recall who pushed the bill through but it made it so the ATF could NOT have a central listing on firearms purchases, (read electronic) must be paper. Hence the shipping containers full of back logged forms. Hence the months long waits."

This still doesn't answer the question of why it should take more than 5-10 minutes to determine that a trust is valid and run background checks on the parties listed on said trust. Nor does this address the apparent solution of putting more "auditors" on the task(it would seem the 2 or 3 working on NFA forms are exceedingly slow).
The difference between opening an envelope and unfolding sheets of paper versus viewing an electronic application doesn't account for much time. I'll never be convinced that BATFE is doing anything but creating a false smokescreen to cover the intentional slow turnover.

Chainsaw. · January 29, 2017, 11:06 PM

The actual check doesnt take much time at all as you stated. But yes, they are back logged THAT much. And no, the government does not hire more people so they can be more timely/efficient. You know this.

You haven't spent much time around government employees have you?

Mobuck · January 30, 2017, 08:02 AM

"You haven't spent much time around government employees have you?"

I've worked for "Federal Agencies" since 1983 but what's your point?

Chainsaw. · January 30, 2017, 08:12 AM

Its called humor...

dogtown tom · January 30, 2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Mobuck

This still doesn't answer the question of why it should take more than 5-10 minutes to determine that a trust is valid and run background checks on the parties listed on said trust.

Pre 41F it shouldn't have taken ATF more than thirty seconds onan NFA transfer to a trust. (there not being a person to submit fingerprints to check)

Post 41F, each person on a trust transfer requires fingerprints and passport photos. ATF doesn't do the fingerprint check, the FBI does. That's why it takes more than 5-10 minutes.

Quote:

Nor does this address the apparent solution of putting more "auditors" on the task(it would seem the 2 or 3 working on NFA forms are exceedingly slow).

"2-3"? More like 25.

Quote:

The difference between opening an envelope and unfolding sheets of paper versus viewing an electronic application doesn't account for much time. I'll never be convinced that BATFE is doing anything but creating a false smokescreen to cover the intentional slow turnover.

The backlog occurs due to the time it takes the data entry clerks to enter the app info. When E Forms was working it skipped the data entry clerks and Forms were getting processed much faster.

Not to mention the 200,000 more applications that were received in May, June, early July. The ATF (like any .gov agency) can't just decide to go out and hire additional examiners unless Congress lets them.

TRX · January 30, 2017, 09:28 PM

No, but I bet they have plenty of surplus personnel who could be put to use doing the paperwork.

dogtown tom · January 31, 2017, 12:12 PM

Quote:

TRX No, but I bet they have plenty of surplus personnel who could be put to use doing the paperwork.

What is "surplus personnel"?

ATF has a specific number of Legal Document Examiners per their budget. They don't get to just push the janitor into a desk when things get busy.

ATF has quite often asked for temporary employees and contract workers to handle the workload. Every time there has been a sequestration they lose those temps and contract workers.

If ATF were to employ another 200 full time employees to process NFA paperwork would you the taxpayer be happy? I wouldn't. The slowdown in NFA processing is entirely the fault of the consumer......ie folks waiting until March knowing 41F will be implemented on July 13th.

Once they get past the mountain of Form 1's and 4's from the pre41F panic (March- mid July) the processing time will likely go to 2 weeks on a Form 3 and three months on a Form 1/4.

Mobuck · February 5, 2017, 08:06 PM

.".ie folks waiting until March knowing 41F will be implemented on July 13th.

Once they get past the mountain of Form 1's and 4's from the pre41F panic (March- mid July) the processing time will likely go to 2 weeks on a Form 3 and three months on a Form 1/4."

And how does this explain the very common 6 months+ wait over the previous TWO YEARS?

Handloader109 · February 5, 2017, 08:18 PM

Agreed! I bought first silencer last week of December 2015, well before the rule 41f was finalized. Took over 4 months. No way will things drop to 2 weeks. Unless no one bought any new silencers. I'm at 8 plus months on my second. Impulse buy, not a rush, but I guarantee that you will wait longer than in past wih fingerprints added to everything after July!

Theohazard · February 5, 2017, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handloader109

Agreed! I bought first silencer last week of December 2015, well before the rule 41f was finalized. Took over 4 months. No way will things drop to 2 weeks.

Nobody said anything about Form 4s dropping to 2 weeks. He said he thinks Form 3s will be 2 weeks and Form 4s and 1s will be 3 months. And that could easily happen considering that's about what things were at before the pre-41F panic ramped up in 2015.

smee78 · February 5, 2017, 09:52 PM

The government does not give a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] about you having to wait for paperwork. They cash your check quick and then drop you paperwork into a black hole. I wish the Hearing Protection Act would pass but I'm not holding my breath, asking the government to give up $200 per form submitted is like asking for the government to take less of my money and stop giving it to lazy free loaders.

dogtown tom · February 6, 2017, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Mobuck . and how does this explain the very common 6 months+ wait over the previous TWO YEARS?

Two years ago my Form 4 transfers were taking 4.5 months on average.

Quote:

Handloader109 Agreed! I bought first silencer last week of December 2015, well before the rule 41f was finalized. Took over 4 months. No way will things drop to 2 weeks.

Two years ago it was not unusual for a Form 3 to be approved in under three weeks and an efiled Form 1 in 30 days or less.

Mobuck · February 6, 2017, 11:00 PM

"Two years ago it was not unusual for a Form 3 to be approved in under three weeks "
Form 3 is hardly more than a shipping label between dealers and honestly is a waste of paper. Simply a justification of existence for another ATF paper pusher.
The Form 4 I submitted two years back took 6 months while the combination Form 3 and Form 4 took closer to 7-8 months.

peggysue · February 7, 2017, 07:34 AM

BS

dogtown tom · February 7, 2017, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Mobuck

Quote:

"Two years ago it was not unusual for a Form 3 to be approved in under three weeks "

Form 3 is hardly more than a shipping label between dealers and honestly is a waste of paper. Simply a justification of existence for another ATF paper pusher.

You're preaching to the choir.

zeke · February 9, 2017, 07:10 AM

7 months for Form 1, but it had to be sent back once. Examiner's comments were very helpful, and appreciated. Am figuring 8 month for form 4, have several slightly over 7 months.

Unlike a private business, the gooberment can't just immediately hire more workers to cover temporary increases. As a taxpayer, want any level of increased spending carefully scrutinized.

January 25, 2017, 06:39 AM	#1
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	NFA approvals have stalled? I dunno if this is due to the election or just the winter doldrums but it seems not much is happening with the processing. SilencerShop has been stuck on the same approval dates for quite a while and our latest call resulted in a ho-hum "Don't bother us until at least 8 months after submission".

January 25, 2017, 07:52 AM	#2
KennyFSU Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 114	When did you file? What form? I was lucky and got my F4 (trust) back in 7 months, check cashed 4/29/16. __________________ Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it does not work you can always hit him with it. -Boris the Blade, on guns.

January 25, 2017, 11:49 AM	#3
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	Two form 4s submitted on 5/2/16: one approved on 1/7/17; the second approved on 1/9/17. The flood before 41F took effect has them buried, I suppose. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

January 25, 2017, 01:58 PM	#4
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Shooting with some guys this weekend, lots of stamps between them, one guy was a year into a suppressor stamp. Guess Id better get mine in sooner than later __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

January 25, 2017, 11:00 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,814	A Friend of mine got his SBR tax stamp last week. Approx time since filing, 10 months. edit to add: Spoke to my friend last night, and I got it wrong. His wait was 8 months, almost to the day. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 25, 2017, 07:03 PM	#5
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"When did you file? What form?" Bought through Silencer Shop with a trust around 6-1-16. As I said latest comment from them was "Don't bother calling again until 8 months".

January 29, 2017, 08:59 AM	#8
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"If you think the slowdown in approval times is due to the election or winter doldrums you need to catch up on what 41F caused." Ah yes, 41F. I've worked for a couple of government agencies and in cases of heavy workload(anticipated or not) swapping workers, authorizing more hours, or shifting schedules often helped cut delays in service. Someone needs to explain why, in this era of instant information access, it takes months to determine that some bad guy isn't trying to illegally obtain an NFA item. Crooks don't go through these channels to get stuff like that-they steal it or just have some shady machine shop make it.

January 29, 2017, 11:36 AM	#9
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Its because of a law that was put into place a while back. My RAM is glitchy so I cant recall who pushed the bill through but it made it so the ATF could NOT have a central listing on firearms purchases, (read electronic) must be paper. Hence the shipping containers full of back logged forms. Hence the months long waits. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

January 29, 2017, 08:29 PM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Its because of a law that was put into place a while back. My RAM is glitchy so I cant recall who pushed the bill through but it made it so the ATF could NOT have a central listing on firearms purchases, (read electronic) must be paper. Hence the shipping containers full of back logged forms. Hence the months long waits." This still doesn't answer the question of why it should take more than 5-10 minutes to determine that a trust is valid and run background checks on the parties listed on said trust. Nor does this address the apparent solution of putting more "auditors" on the task(it would seem the 2 or 3 working on NFA forms are exceedingly slow). The difference between opening an envelope and unfolding sheets of paper versus viewing an electronic application doesn't account for much time. I'll never be convinced that BATFE is doing anything but creating a false smokescreen to cover the intentional slow turnover.

January 29, 2017, 11:06 PM	#11
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	The actual check doesnt take much time at all as you stated. But yes, they are back logged THAT much. And no, the government does not hire more people so they can be more timely/efficient. You know this. You haven't spent much time around government employees have you? __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

January 30, 2017, 08:02 AM	#12
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"You haven't spent much time around government employees have you?" I've worked for "Federal Agencies" since 1983 but what's your point?

January 30, 2017, 08:12 AM	#13
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Its called humor... __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

January 30, 2017, 09:28 PM	#15
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	No, but I bet they have plenty of surplus personnel who could be put to use doing the paperwork.

February 5, 2017, 08:06 PM	#17
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	.".ie folks waiting until March knowing 41F will be implemented on July 13th. Once they get past the mountain of Form 1's and 4's from the pre41F panic (March- mid July) the processing time will likely go to 2 weeks on a Form 3 and three months on a Form 1/4." And how does this explain the very common 6 months+ wait over the previous TWO YEARS?

February 5, 2017, 08:18 PM	#18
Handloader109 Member Join Date: March 7, 2015 Posts: 47	Agreed! I bought first silencer last week of December 2015, well before the rule 41f was finalized. Took over 4 months. No way will things drop to 2 weeks. Unless no one bought any new silencers. I'm at 8 plus months on my second. Impulse buy, not a rush, but I guarantee that you will wait longer than in past wih fingerprints added to everything after July!

February 5, 2017, 09:52 PM	#20
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	The government does not give a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] about you having to wait for paperwork. They cash your check quick and then drop you paperwork into a black hole. I wish the Hearing Protection Act would pass but I'm not holding my breath, asking the government to give up $200 per form submitted is like asking for the government to take less of my money and stop giving it to lazy free loaders. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

February 6, 2017, 11:00 PM	#22
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Two years ago it was not unusual for a Form 3 to be approved in under three weeks " Form 3 is hardly more than a shipping label between dealers and honestly is a waste of paper. Simply a justification of existence for another ATF paper pusher. The Form 4 I submitted two years back took 6 months while the combination Form 3 and Form 4 took closer to 7-8 months.

February 7, 2017, 07:34 AM	#23
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	BS

February 9, 2017, 07:10 AM	#25
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	7 months for Form 1, but it had to be sent back once. Examiner's comments were very helpful, and appreciated. Am figuring 8 month for form 4, have several slightly over 7 months. Unlike a private business, the gooberment can't just immediately hire more workers to cover temporary increases. As a taxpayer, want any level of increased spending carefully scrutinized.