What Shotgun for Bears?

[SansSouci]

biggamehunter,

With the right primary gun, you won't need a back-up.

[bigamehunter]

Ok so am thinking I like the idea of an older wingmaster with 3" chamber if I can find one. Would the barrels and other accessories be interchangeable with the new ones?

[bamaranger]

Well, I wonder about your choice or a shotgun....., but I'm an 870 man and I'd look for an older Wingmaster, w/ slug barrel and appropriate sights.

Me, I wouldn't limit myself to a heavier, shorter ranged shoulder arm like a slug pump gun. I'd be inclined to lean towards something like a lever carbine, maybe an older Marlin in .35 Rem, but a Win 94 in .30-30 would be along the same lines. Light, flat, easy to carry about everywhere, and I could shoot it better than a handgun. Quick pointing, and theoretically, more reach than a 12ga slug.

But, no arguing with the punch of a 12 ga slug up close.

[samsmix]

I'm probably the only guy here that will say anything nice about buckshot, and even I would likely choose slugs.

That said, IF you choose buckshot, then choose a heavy payload moving fast. Why? Because higher pellet counts give a higher number of hits (if they pattern well in your gun), and speed is the only factor that improves penetration with .33 cal round balls. Further away it may break bones and will perforate (but NOT destroy) soft squishy parts, and it becomes quite slug-like at close range.

The choice is yours of course, but remember that each Buckshot round will have similar wound ballistics to a dozen rounds of randomly placed .22 WMR. Personally, I'd use slugs. Brenneke slugs if possible.

I will also jump on the 870 bandwagon. I've owned a few 870s, and a pile of Mossbergs, and while the 500s/550s/835s were easier to clear a jam from, it happened more often than with the Remington's.

[reynolds357]

It does not exactly answer your question, but the SXP would be my hands down choice.

[TheFriendlyMarksman]

A 12 gauge with a slug would get the job done, but in that case, why not just use a rifle? 30-06 or 450 Marlin should get the job done. I wouldn't be afraid to use my 270 either.

[TXAZ]

I would not be willing to bet my life, or that of a customer on a shotgun with a slug.
A 12 ga with a 1 ounce rifled slug will lose about 2/3 of it's 2400 ft-lbs of muzzle energy at 100 yards.

A 308 / 30-06 will lose ~ 20% of it's 2,800 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, and larger calibers lose less of their muzzle energy percentage wise. A .50 BMG only loses about 6% muzzle energy from the muzzle to 100 yards.
(I'm not advocating humping a .50 around, the point is larger calibers tend to lose less energy in the 0-5 yards you're more likely to have to defend yourself in, as a P O'd black bear can close 50 yards in about 3 seconds.)

Lot's of low cost rifles out there that should give you more security than a 12 ga.

[bigamehunter]

Thanks for all the responses guys, I really do appreciate it! I am going to look for an older 870 wingmaster with 3" action and equip it with and 18" cylinder bore.
Thanks,
Mitch

[bigamehunter]

For the record I've shot bears with multiple guns varying from a 223 varmint rifle (head shot) to 300wsm and at ranges anywhere from 10 yards to 250. The sole purpose of this gun/weapon choice is (should the much undesired situational need arise) to knock a bear on its a** at unavoidably close quarters. If we are hunting clear cuts I'll more than likely have my 270 or 300 along. But in the instants that a hit bear makes it to the reprod it will be nice to know that there is a good close quarters thumper in the truck.

[Guv]

Rifled Barrel?
I bought one for my 870 and it shoots just like a rifle. It will group Honady 325gr Sabot's or Brenneke 1 1/8oz (490gr) slugs right on top of each other at 50yds.

[reynolds357]

Why rule out the autoloading shotguns? The new breed of autoloaders are as reliable as pumps. I dare venture to say that they are probably more reliable(When you weed out the idiots that do not know the meaning of the word"cleaning"). In our use of shotguns in SWAT training and in tactical shotgun classes, I have seen far more "jams" (in their various forms) in pumps than I have seen in auto loaders. There are a pile of reliable autoloaders out there. The Mossberg 930 is probably the best one for the money. Those guns run and run and run and run in 3 gun competition. I have never seen one fail on the police range. They sure tame the recoil of the 3" slug.

[HiBC]

The Bennellis are sure nice semi-autos.
I have always been a fan of the Ithaca 37.But there is something I have noticed about them.
Shotgun shells aren't what they used to be.The rims.It seems like the materials and methods they use today produce smaller,less defined rims.They tend to have a little more inside radius..Anyway,they offer less for an extractor to grab.
I'm not saying YOUR Ithaca doesn't work. I'm saying extraction may be a little less reliable than it used to be.Maybe a fine tune of the extractor hooks will help.
But if you leave a hull in the chamber,remember you have no ejection port on an Ithaca.If the extractors slip off,you pull the slide back and another shell feeds. Tied Up!!. You have to pull the barrel to clear it.

[Husqvarna]

but reynolds how reliable are the semis when not fired from the shoulder?

In my youth full of piss and vinegar I tracked wounded bears (browns) with a rem1100 and slugs

It did the job fine

but I thank my lucky star today because later regular shotgun use it showed to be very finicky

what about a poor mans double rifle?

double barrel, double trigger can't get more reliable than that!
o/u or sbs with as short of a barrel as possible, even a small RMR type reddot, ejectors and extra slugs on the stock?

like all the "cool" african professional hunters use?

[reynolds357]

The gas guns are very reliable fired from the hip. We used FN's extensively for breaching doors. The inertia guns, I have no idea. I never have been a fan of the inertia guns so I could not tell you.

[stevelyn]

I live in the heart of coastal brown bear country and have lost count on how many DLP kills I've made over the years. I've never once felt under-gunned with a tactical 870 and Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs.

[Husqvarna]

if we are talking pure defense against bears

a revolver shotgun gotta be the best

what other rifle could you reliably get of a second shot with if the bear tackles you?

a 16 inch barrel or even better a sbr(s) double action would be ideal

[reynolds357]

Husqvarna, you could reliably get off several shots with a 450 Bushmaster. Not that it would be my ideal bear gun, but I sure can shoot mine very fast.

[samsmix]

Stevelyn, what is a "DLP kill"?

[glenspen]

Killing an animal in defense of life or property (DLP).

Have you seen that Southpark episode where the hunters all shout "It's coming right for us"?

[Husqvarna]

you could reliably

but still a semi, I may be oldfashioned but I prefer my actions to be manual
especially against your kind of bears, our brown bears are not as big as your grizzlies

I have owned semis for hunting. my benelli argo was dead reliable, never a hickup, not with any kind of ammo, but I wasn't magdumping 30round magazines or anything (I only had a 4 and 10round magazine) still opted to go basck to a bolt because it was nagging in the back of my mind

[reynolds357]

I really think that semi autos are as reliable as bolt actions. When under duress, I trust the auto loading mechanism to function properly better than I trust myself to function properly. It is pretty easy to jam up a bolt action (especially a push feed) when you are working the mechanism under extreme stress. We trust the auto loading mechanism and the bolt mechanism when we are hunting the most dangerous predator on earth, other men.

[samsmix]

If it's black bears, I'd opt for a 10mm Glock in an attack, because I can still engage if he is on me. For approaching a downed bear, your shotgun makes sense, though come to think of it I wouldn't snub a gas-op auto either. My wife's Wetberby SA-08 has been dead reliable.

[Husqvarna]

We trust the auto loading mechanism and the bolt mechanism when we are hunting the most dangerous predator on earth, other men

but hunting "man" ai combat most shots taken are suppresive fire and so on

big dangerous game hunters use 2 shot doubles or 3-4shot bolts for a reason

hunting is about well aimed shots first, fast second

[Husqvarna]

I trust myself to function properly. It is pretty easy to jam up a bolt action (especially a push feed) when you are working the mechanism under extreme stress.

properly trained it really is muscle memory

I don't claim to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ob0fgc0I7A

but still, reloading happens to me atleast without thought

First moose I took with my BLR, dad called out on the radio asking if it was me because I reloaded and shot so fast

[reynolds357]

Husqvarna, we are talking about back up guns here, not the primary weapon. My friend, who has a lot more money than me, has killed 7 grizzly and two Kodiak's. His primary weapon was a 340 WBY mag. Never needed his 44 mag back up revolver.
Having said that, the only gun he would shoot elephants, RINO, and nyati with was a 458 win mag.