dragons breath for self defense - Page 2

C0untZer0 · May 27, 2011, 07:50 AM

Quote:

"Nothing beats a load of 00 or 000 buckshot for home and self-defense."

Actually, yes it does: #0 Buckshot, #1 Buckshot, #4 Buckshot, BB Shot, and #2 Shot.

Gehr

I'm not so sure about pellets less #1, don't mean to make this a duplicate thread or put it into some weird loop, but here is a thread that discusses it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452487

Basically, I'm just saying that Randy Wakeman makes a good case for #1 Buck and says in there that it is the smallest diameter shot that, from 2¾ shells, penetrate reliably to 12"

But it does go back to what I said previously - for any specialty load I would look at what it does in gel. If it's not penetrating to depths that perforate vital tissue, then you're relying on someother stopping factor (pain, psycological shock or fear) to stop the aggressor, other than depending on disrupting vital tissue.

Double Naught Spy · May 27, 2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

OK, I was on youtube and saw these shotgun shells called dragons breath.
One of the videos the shooter used them on a manikin.

LOL, you saw the video with the fake Russian who does a lot of products like the AA12 shotgun.

No, the round would not be good for self defense. The fire you see the fake Russian start appears to be a fluid-based fire the way it spread so uniformly. I don't doubt it would catch clothing on fire, but also your house, yard, etc.

Dragon's Breath is exciting for starting bonfires, but not defense unless you are being attacked by zombies soaked in gasoline.

With that said, assuming the round is already legal in your given state, it would be legal for self defense in a situation where lethal force is legitimate. To my knowledge, no states stipulate what types of lethal force are legal for self defense. They simply state what constitutes lethal force and the conditions in which it would be lethal for use in self defense.

Dave McC · May 27, 2011, 08:47 AM

Stick with buckshot......

Gehrhard · May 27, 2011, 05:15 PM

The smaller shot, with #2 shot (.15 caliber "Swan Shot" back in the day) being the smallest, would be limited to something like 15 yard maximum Open Cylinder AD which stands for Apartment Defense.

Gehr

greyeyezz · May 28, 2011, 08:15 AM

They would be excellent for home defense, especially with highly flammable curtains.

Some posts never cease to amaze me.

Eghad · May 28, 2011, 01:22 PM

PT Barnum would be proud of products like dragons breath, bolo and flechette. They are called novelty rounds for a reason.

flechettes have already been tried by the military.

I am stickin with my double aught buckshot.

macmuffy · May 28, 2011, 01:40 PM

I seem to recall a story of some storyteller telling of his experience with a DB shell.

It was along the lines of the stories of :How to lasso a deer" and "How I tested a stun gun on myself prior to giving it to my wife".

ROTFL at all of them.

My google fu could not find these stories. Can anyone else find them?

.

Lee Lapin · May 28, 2011, 01:49 PM

I remember that one, if it's the same one you're thinking of- see if this is it: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...p/t-21141.html

lpl

macmuffy · May 28, 2011, 02:57 PM

Thanks Lee.

that was the one I remembered.

(Just noticed our join dates. Did not realize that I had been lurking around like a bad smell for this long.)

hogdogs · May 28, 2011, 03:00 PM

Macmuffy, You and lee have been members since Moses was still breaking rocks to build the Sahara for Pharoah!!!

Brent

Lee Lapin · May 29, 2011, 09:20 AM

Still not as long as the really old guys, like Dave McC. 'Course, I first remember Dave from the old GunSpot forums, where the shotgun forum was moderated by Randy Cain...

. That was, what, 1997 or so, Dave?

That's a LONG time ago, in Internet years...

lpl

Dave McC · May 29, 2011, 08:40 PM

Darnfino,Lee. I started on the old Prodigy Network in the 80s. The Shooting Sports BB was modded by E M Count. She was a writer who did some factual stuff on the NYPD as well as fiction. Dean Spier was on there, along with a messa folks like the member now known as Kodiak Beer that are here and on THR now. I helped start the Archery BB and spent lots of time debating some rather loopy Animal Rights Activists.

Gunspot was maybe my fifth BB. I do think you're right about meeting there. Dunno about the date though.

triumph666 · May 30, 2011, 08:30 AM

there not good for self defense unless you intend to maim an blind the attacker with a shot in the face.....but the beat all hell scaring animals off of your property at night!!!!

seansean1444 · May 30, 2011, 12:48 PM

ABSOLUTLY!!! if he took a bath in gas with his clothes on 10 seconds prior...

johnbt · June 1, 2011, 09:36 AM

Fire hazard, what fire hazard?

A buddy who lives on a boat east of town was given a dragons breath shell. One night he decided to shoot it off the bow. The creek is about 75 yards or more wide with a little sand beach and scrub brush island on the other side.

He had to take his tender over and stomp out all the fires he started.

anonymousFolk · June 1, 2011, 12:29 PM

I think it is excellent for HD against invading scarecrows from the wizard of oz in my asbestos house

OK seriously I'd love to try them some 4th of July but no I'd never use for HD.

MerinNienaber · March 1, 2017, 02:16 PM

As usual, people posting here have little to contribute beyond macho talk, rhetoric and ridicule. Dragons breath rounds operate similarly to white phosphorous grenades, widely used in warfare. Said rounds fire out a cloud of magnesium pellets or shards burning at 1 600 C. Safe to say, this could be a useful weapon when fired out of a Taurus Judge or S & W Governor at a person waving a knife at short range. Obviously, don’t load for home defence unless the shooter wants to burn down the house, not good in situations where the target is flanked or standing in front of persons that a shooter does not have the right or cause to do harm to, but if said person is standing with accomplices in a concrete alleyway? I would think this weapon would further offer shock and awe, a strategy widely used by armed forces. After seeing a huge bright cloud of spark and flame wrapping around an accomplice who starts screaming and running about, id guess the rest of the gang would seek other opportunities at a rapid pace. Further, as the cloud projected has the possibility of engaging multiple hostiles, we get what we all thought shotguns do, a big blast that can take out a number of criminals. Further, consider the possibility that this may be an effective less-lethal weapon. A person drilled to a short depth with multiple metal fragments burning at high temperature is going to be having a really bad day, and I assume thoughts of Robbery, Rape and Murder would be furthest away at this point, however, said person may walk away from the altercation, albeit somewhat scarred and traumatized. This provides a better moral stance than blowing the liver and spine out the back with 00 buckshot.

Targa · March 2, 2017, 09:22 AM

Ah, a 6 year old thread. Anyway, the fact that someone actually had to ask the question in the first place is exactly why I try to get off the beaten path away from strangers when I get some range time in. As for your post Merin, I will not get into it but I guess you can chalk me up as one of the macho people with little to contribute other than rhetoric and ridicule.
And welcome to the forum, looking forward to more of your insightful contributions.

Rob228 · March 2, 2017, 12:27 PM

DB rounds are not even closely related to white phosphorus, in principle or in practice.

USMCGrunt · March 2, 2017, 12:59 PM

Let me ask you this, look at the arms, equipment and ammo of those that go into harms way be it LEO or military, what did they carry? Do they rely on buckshot and/or slugs or do you see them carrying dragons breath, bolo rounds and other crazy ammo from the back pages of Soldier of Fortune magazine? Might be an answer there someplace don't ya think?

Evan Thomas · March 2, 2017, 01:10 PM

There's no reason to revive this thread. The short answer is the same now as it was then: stick with buckshot or slugs.

May 27, 2011, 05:15 PM	#29
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	The smaller shot, with #2 shot (.15 caliber "Swan Shot" back in the day) being the smallest, would be limited to something like 15 yard maximum Open Cylinder AD which stands for Apartment Defense. Gehr Last edited by Gehrhard; May 28, 2011 at 01:58 PM.

May 28, 2011, 01:22 PM	#31
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	PT Barnum would be proud of products like dragons breath, bolo and flechette. They are called novelty rounds for a reason. flechettes have already been tried by the military. I am stickin with my double aught buckshot. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member Last edited by Eghad; May 28, 2011 at 01:31 PM.

May 28, 2011, 01:40 PM	#32
macmuffy Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Posts: 66	I seem to recall a story of some storyteller telling of his experience with a DB shell. It was along the lines of the stories of :How to lasso a deer" and "How I tested a stun gun on myself prior to giving it to my wife". ROTFL at all of them. My google fu could not find these stories. Can anyone else find them? . __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "Holy crap. What a ride.!"

May 28, 2011, 01:49 PM	#33
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	I remember that one, if it's the same one you're thinking of- see if this is it: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...p/t-21141.html lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

May 28, 2011, 02:57 PM	#34
macmuffy Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Posts: 66	Thanks Lee. that was the one I remembered. (Just noticed our join dates. Did not realize that I had been lurking around like a bad smell for this long.) __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "Holy crap. What a ride.!"

May 27, 2011, 08:47 AM	#28
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Stick with buckshot......

May 28, 2011, 08:15 AM	#30
greyeyezz Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2001 Location: N.E. OH Posts: 385	They would be excellent for home defense, especially with highly flammable curtains. Some posts never cease to amaze me.

May 28, 2011, 03:00 PM	#35
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Macmuffy, You and lee have been members since Moses was still breaking rocks to build the Sahara for Pharoah!!! Brent

May 29, 2011, 09:20 AM	#36
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Still not as long as the really old guys, like Dave McC. 'Course, I first remember Dave from the old GunSpot forums, where the shotgun forum was moderated by Randy Cain... . That was, what, 1997 or so, Dave? That's a LONG time ago, in Internet years... lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

May 29, 2011, 08:40 PM	#37
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Darnfino,Lee. I started on the old Prodigy Network in the 80s. The Shooting Sports BB was modded by E M Count. She was a writer who did some factual stuff on the NYPD as well as fiction. Dean Spier was on there, along with a messa folks like the member now known as Kodiak Beer that are here and on THR now. I helped start the Archery BB and spent lots of time debating some rather loopy Animal Rights Activists. Gunspot was maybe my fifth BB. I do think you're right about meeting there. Dunno about the date though.

May 30, 2011, 08:30 AM	#38
triumph666 Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2011 Posts: 374	there not good for self defense unless you intend to maim an blind the attacker with a shot in the face.....but the beat all hell scaring animals off of your property at night!!!!

May 30, 2011, 12:48 PM	#39
seansean1444 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: ithaca, new york (home of the ithaca shotguns!) Posts: 395	ABSOLUTLY!!! if he took a bath in gas with his clothes on 10 seconds prior...

June 1, 2011, 09:36 AM	#40
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Fire hazard, what fire hazard? A buddy who lives on a boat east of town was given a dragons breath shell. One night he decided to shoot it off the bow. The creek is about 75 yards or more wide with a little sand beach and scrub brush island on the other side. He had to take his tender over and stomp out all the fires he started.

June 1, 2011, 12:29 PM	#41
anonymousFolk Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 63	I think it is excellent for HD against invading scarecrows from the wizard of oz in my asbestos house OK seriously I'd love to try them some 4th of July but no I'd never use for HD.

March 1, 2017, 02:16 PM	#42
MerinNienaber Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2017 Posts: 1	Dragons Breath in Self Defence As usual, people posting here have little to contribute beyond macho talk, rhetoric and ridicule. Dragons breath rounds operate similarly to white phosphorous grenades, widely used in warfare. Said rounds fire out a cloud of magnesium pellets or shards burning at 1 600 C. Safe to say, this could be a useful weapon when fired out of a Taurus Judge or S & W Governor at a person waving a knife at short range. Obviously, don’t load for home defence unless the shooter wants to burn down the house, not good in situations where the target is flanked or standing in front of persons that a shooter does not have the right or cause to do harm to, but if said person is standing with accomplices in a concrete alleyway? I would think this weapon would further offer shock and awe, a strategy widely used by armed forces. After seeing a huge bright cloud of spark and flame wrapping around an accomplice who starts screaming and running about, id guess the rest of the gang would seek other opportunities at a rapid pace. Further, as the cloud projected has the possibility of engaging multiple hostiles, we get what we all thought shotguns do, a big blast that can take out a number of criminals. Further, consider the possibility that this may be an effective less-lethal weapon. A person drilled to a short depth with multiple metal fragments burning at high temperature is going to be having a really bad day, and I assume thoughts of Robbery, Rape and Murder would be furthest away at this point, however, said person may walk away from the altercation, albeit somewhat scarred and traumatized. This provides a better moral stance than blowing the liver and spine out the back with 00 buckshot.

March 2, 2017, 09:22 AM	#43
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Ah, a 6 year old thread. Anyway, the fact that someone actually had to ask the question in the first place is exactly why I try to get off the beaten path away from strangers when I get some range time in. As for your post Merin, I will not get into it but I guess you can chalk me up as one of the macho people with little to contribute other than rhetoric and ridicule. And welcome to the forum, looking forward to more of your insightful contributions.

March 2, 2017, 12:27 PM	#44
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	DB rounds are not even closely related to white phosphorus, in principle or in practice.

March 2, 2017, 12:59 PM	#45
USMCGrunt Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Somewhere in 14T NT Posts: 730	Let me ask you this, look at the arms, equipment and ammo of those that go into harms way be it LEO or military, what did they carry? Do they rely on buckshot and/or slugs or do you see them carrying dragons breath, bolo rounds and other crazy ammo from the back pages of Soldier of Fortune magazine? Might be an answer there someplace don't ya think?

March 2, 2017, 01:10 PM	#46
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	There's no reason to revive this thread. The short answer is the same now as it was then: stick with buckshot or slugs. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.