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Old October 14, 2019, 06:27 PM   #26
shurshot
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Nope, not Kittery, nor Howell's either. I SHOULD have shipped it to one of them though. It's a good sized outfit with an indoor range, in Southern Maine, let's leave it at that.
Let me see how it plays out, I'll gladly out them if they don't make this right soon. I don't want anyone else to get burned like this. It AIN'T right... and that manager knows it.
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Old October 15, 2019, 01:06 AM   #27
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I think an FFL transfer receiver is only required to verify the serial number on the registered component--that's it and nothing else, as far as I know. I always worry about "hey guys--check this out" bubba-fest when doing transfers. I've been at GS's when stuff came in for other folks and was allowed to handle the firearm (probably cause they wanted to see if I was interested inn getting one). I always keep close track of the delivery and make sure I'm there right after delivery.
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Old October 15, 2019, 04:09 AM   #28
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Tough break there shurshot, hopefully the FFL makes it right without a trip to the courthouse.
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Old October 15, 2019, 05:52 AM   #29
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FWIW, I'd make sure I got a day in court. Literally.
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Old October 15, 2019, 06:55 AM   #30
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Gotta mention, that MY local FFL that I sent more than a few Gunbroker buys too, opened the box/case to make sure it was the seller said it was, to record the serial number in his 'book', but that's all. No action checks whatsoever..as a FFL getting a transfer, I see no need to work the action..it's not their gun, after all.
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Old October 15, 2019, 11:56 AM   #31
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Quote:
It's a good sized outfit with an indoor range
There in lies the problem. Too big, too busy, with certain "house rules" dictated by the legal staff.
Do they allow "kitchen table" FFL dealers in your state? Someone without owners, managers, clerks, and who knows who else in their store to handle the goods.
A more personal relationship with the actual FFL holder that will receive your item is a much better way to go. That way you can be clear about anyone else handling the goods.
Altought when you are talking about a $2k collector piece, cost of the transfer is insignificant, but often the smaller home FFL dealers charge less for the transfer as well.
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Old October 15, 2019, 01:32 PM   #32
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A new brand new Colt Single Action Army doesn't have any collector value. Your only option is a lawyer. If it ever gets to court, it will cost you a bundle of money. Law suits are like that. It is the gun shop that is liable though.
Social media is not a place to deal with this. Far more likely that'd backfire on you.
"...Colt will make it right..." Wouldn't count on it. They're not involved.
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Old October 15, 2019, 02:05 PM   #33
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T.Oheir,
The Colt may not be a collectors gun in your opinion at this point in time and I'm sure many would agree with you, although I don't. They seem to be selling pretty quickly as the Colt website always says they are not available. Been that way for awhile. Long waiting list at the Colt custom shop. Demand must be greater than the supply, as they seem to sell above MSRP by about 10% or more here in the USA.
And... the Colt manual states it IS a collector's gun, and excessive handling and or shooting it will devalue it. I mean, after all, it IS a Colt, and if the manual states it has collectors value, who are we to question it?? I mean, it's not like it's Hipoint saying its 9mm is a collector's piece... this is COLT writing this. .
My intention, as I previously wrote, was to put it away, unmolested, unturned, etc, for SEVERAL DECADES, at which point one of my heirs may appreciate it, or I will sell it if I'm still kicking. In several decades, a 2019 Colt SAA, unturned, unfired and uncocked, in the USA... WILL be a collectors item. Few will doubt that. We Americans like our Colts and Winchesters. We are talking 30 years in the future. Pretty sure it WILL appreciate in value... even more so if some nimrod didn't play with it and mar up the cylinder.
Thanks for your advice. Small claims court is my next step, no lawyer needed... I have before and after photos and can testify before the Judge. Odds are they will settle during mediation.

Last edited by shurshot; October 15, 2019 at 02:22 PM.
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Old October 15, 2019, 02:54 PM   #34
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How do plan to fix a value on your loss? Just because you believe it’ll be worth X in “several decades ” doesn’t make it so, trying to identify what something is worth means you’re trying to predict human behavior.

At best I’d think you’d be entitled to the difference between 99% and NIB but even that would be a tough sell.


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Old October 15, 2019, 03:50 PM   #35
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Seriously? Did I say I was seeking compensation based on the potential value in a few decades? I don't recall writing that. I was responding to the Canadian stating it wasn't collectible. I swear some of you guys dont read posts prior to commenting. I expect to recover the costs of having the cylinder reblued, plus any other nominal fees that are not covered under warranty. Fair and simple, as written at the beginning of this thread.
If I was good at predicting future values, I would have bought the Bren Ten a now closed gunshop had for $400 or so a few decades ago, and my buddy's Ultimate stainless Colt python for $450 when it was offered to me!!

Last edited by shurshot; October 15, 2019 at 08:29 PM.
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Old October 15, 2019, 06:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shurshot View Post
He DESTROYED the collector value, as I was planning on putting it away, unturned, uncocked, in the safe for a few decades to pass on or sell.


You said it so my reading comprehension is just fine, memory may be a bit weak.

Good luck to you in your pursuit.


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Old October 15, 2019, 07:05 PM   #37
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I never stated I was seeking compensation for any future value. Perhaps I should have clarified it better. In the same post I also stated "They refuse to accept responsibility and or to pay for the cylinder to be reblued as it isn't covered under Warranty (I already called Colt and started a ticket, and they encouraged me to hold the dealer $$$ responsible for the rebluing)."
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Old October 15, 2019, 07:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
. the Colt manual states it IS a collector's gun, and excessive handling and or shooting it will devalue it. I mean, after all, it IS a Colt, and if the manual states it has collectors value, who are we to question it?? I mean, it's not like it's Hipoint saying its 9mm is a collector's piece... this is COLT writing this.
First off, what makes you think Colt is above advertising hype and hyperbole? They aren't.

Second, the way the market works, "excessive handling and or shooting" devalues EVERYTHING, Not just special Colts...

Who are we to question Colt? We're the people buying, or not buying their stuff. It is consumer DEMAND that makes something "collectible", not the maker saying so.

You could have people engrave Currier & Ives scenes on a limited production run of "collectible" guns, but that doesn't make them collectable, only people buying them makes it so.

I get it, you bought an unturned, factory new gun with a 100% finish. That's what you PAID for, and the gunshop employee "playing" with it changed that. Absolutely, they owe you the cost difference between what you paid for, and what its worth, now.
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Old October 15, 2019, 07:49 PM   #39
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It's COLT. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

44amp stated; "Who are we to question Colt? We're the people buying, or not buying their stuff. It is consumer DEMAND that makes something "collectible", not the maker saying so."

Yes, we agree. You are absolutely correct. Exactly why the Colt custom shop has a waiting list for SAA Peacemakers. Some wait years and pay higher than the MSRP. Consumer demand DOES indeed make them "collectible", as stated in the manual.

Last edited by shurshot; October 15, 2019 at 08:30 PM.
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Old October 15, 2019, 07:50 PM   #40
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This is all so lame--it doesn't matter what any of you think about whether or not the OP's value assessment is realistic or not; the only thing that really matters is that he's entitled to expect the gun delivered to him in new condition to do whatever (legally) he wants with.
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Old October 15, 2019, 09:11 PM   #41
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Legally, the measure of damage is the value of the object prior to the loss less the value of the object immediately after the loss. I found that out working claims and seeing the result of court cases when they were handled properly.
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Old October 16, 2019, 12:38 AM   #42
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Infuriating situation.

I kind of hope you do take them to court, I wish you'd had a voice recorder on you so you could verify to the court all the "stuff" they told you.

As for the BBB, I hope they're better in Maine than Minnesota. I've had only one experience with them here and did not get much in the way of satisfaction.

Good luck. Please come back and let us know how it comes out.
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Old October 16, 2019, 12:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
shurshot

Maine Gun shop destroyed new Colt SAA collector value!
After a lengthy search, I had a new brand new Colt single action army .45 Peacemaker transferred to my dealer (now FORMER dealer), for an FFL transfer (Gunbroker purchase) and the young know it all clerk, prior to my arrival, "safety checks" the gun,
As he should. Visual confirmation that the firearm is unloaded is common sense.





Quote:
cuts off the zip tie the Colt Dealer placed on it at my request and then plays with it.
Did you make your transfer dealer aware BEFORE the gun arrived that you wanted the zip tie left intact?



Quote:
He admitted to dropping the hammer from the half cock notch, and apparently several times too, given the numerous turn Mark's on the cylinder from the cylinder bolt.
He's an idiot at worst, untrained in handling expensive firearms at best. If untrained, his boss should have trained him on how to visually inspect a revolver without opening the cylinder.


Quote:
He DESTROYED the collector value, as I was planning on putting it away, unturned, uncocked, in the safe for a few decades to pass on or sell. The Clerk refused to accept responsibility for his ignorance and damage he did, was arrogant, tried to blame Colt (which is BS), said they left the turn marks (I have before and after photos from the original seller, an authorized Colt dealership). The gun was MINT and unturned, unmarked prior to this idiot getting his hands on it.
In his defense, the clerk can't read your mind or even be aware of what your intent was. I'm pretty sure that gun was cocked, turned and function checked at the Colt factory.........by someone who knows how to do so without marring the finish.



Quote:
Manager backs clerk, says ALL guns must be safely checked.
Which is possible on a SAA with nothing more than your eyes.


Quote:
Colt Single action revolvers have rimmed cartridges (.45 Colt anyhow, as this one was), the gun can be checked easily WITHOUT cocking it by viewing it sideways. ANY cartridge in the cylinder can be seen by holding the gun sideways. The clerk obviously just wanted to play with it (and did!) and subsequently ruined its uncocked / unturned condition. Dropped it from the half cock and or indexed the cylinder!!!???!!! A brand new Colt?!?!? Is he trying to destroy my hammer sear??? Very disappointed in this dealer and the arrogance / poor attitude of the clerk after the fact. He should not be working in a gunshop with that attitude! . He advised me that he knows "allot about single action revolvers and has lots of experience with them". Ha ha!!! Yeah, he sure destroyed mine in short order!!!
Did you choose this FFL to receive your gun?
Apparently he was unaware of the value, unaware of the loss of value by cocking/uncocking/dry firing/etc.
Did the seller put a card, tag or other warning with the firearm: "Collector gun! Visual inspection only!" Or even "Do not open without buyer"?
I transfer a lot of collector grade ($5000 and up) handguns. It's not uncommon to see such a warning notice.



Quote:
They refuse to accept responsibility and or to pay for the cylinder to be reblued as it isn't covered under Warranty (I already called Colt and started a ticket, and they encouraged me to hold the dealer $$$ responsible for the rebluing). Devalued my new Colt from Collector grade to shooter grade before I could even see it and now I'm stuck with a devalued gun. Not a cheap gun either. Sending it back to Colt now and exploring legal options. Terrible experience.
Rebluing? That won't restore the cylinder to "unturned, uncocked". IMHO, your gun dealer owes you a Colt like you were supposed to get.

Quote:
Be careful who you conduct buisness with pertaining to valuable weapons.
I'm not victim blaming, but it's always a good idea to let your dealer know ahead of time what you have coming in and any special precautions to take.

If you did that, then the dealer has little to argue with.
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Old October 16, 2019, 01:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
I'm not victim blaming, but it's always a good idea to let your dealer know ahead of time what you have coming in and any special precautions to take.

If you did that, then the dealer has little to argue with.]
If the dealer orders a SAA in to stock as inventory,and put on display,from the time the dealer receives it till he sells it,the gun is the dealers property.

The dealer can cut zip ties,dry fire,spin the cylinder ,fan it,twirl it,drop it,etc.

Its the dealer's skin in the game.

With a transfer,the seller owns it till the transfer is made,then the buyer owns it. At no time is that gun the transferring FFL;s property.

Cutting the zip tie and manipulating the action is the equivalent of breaking and entering and trespassing.

Any damage or loss incurred while monkeying around with anther man's property shoud be fully compensated.

IMO,a factory reblue is not good enough. The transferring dealer should order an identical SAA for the customer,and take the damaged one into his store inventory.

The young stupid employee responsible...lets get real here, Eyeballing the space between the cylinder and frame accomplishes checking the gun,that can be done with the gun in the box. The zip tie was cut because "Young and Dumb" wanted to play with a gun that was not his. Intent,excuses,don't nean anything.
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Old October 16, 2019, 02:18 PM   #45
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Moron

File a property damage claim with the shop's business insurance carrier.

Their state license application should have the carrier's info. policy limits, effective coverage dates, etc.

Even if they are out of business, their business owners policy would remain viable until the policy expires.
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Old October 16, 2019, 03:50 PM   #46
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Old October 16, 2019, 04:18 PM   #47
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HIBC, I thought about a replacement, but I'm trying to be fair to everyone and this dealer primarily deals in tactical type weapons, I suspect a Colt SAA may sit on the shelf for along time.

This Colt was from Lew Horton distributors, whom if some of you haven't heard, is going out of buisness soon (I heard this from a very reliable source).

This is MY Colt Peacemaker. I don't want another one. I want THIS one... refurbished to the exact condition it was before Mr. Potato head frigged it all up . All I want is for them to accept responsibility and to be compensated for the reblued cylinder and any hammer sear / finish damage not covered by warranty. I think that is more than fair and I have a strong hunch the Judge will agree with me if the Dealer insists on allowing this to go to small claims court... which will end up costing them FAR more than if they did the right thing now.

She is back with Colt now, safe and sound, awaiting her makeover. The BBB contacted the dealer yesterday. No response yet. I'm an optimist... things will work out and I'll be compensated, either now or in the future.

She will return to me sooner or later. My heart will remain true and steadfast. No one can take her place. Sure, there are others, but they are just guns. She is MY Colt Peacemaker.

There can be only one.

Last edited by shurshot; October 16, 2019 at 04:55 PM.
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Old October 16, 2019, 04:55 PM   #48
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Quote:
She will return to me sooner or later. My heart will remain true and steadfast. No one can take her place. The others are just guns. She is my Colt Peacemaker.
Other than getting the gun from your dealer, do you have some sort of "history", some event or experience or sense of nostalgia, with this one of many brand new Colt Peacemaker revolvers? Just curious as to why the attachment to a gun you apparently just met.
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Old October 16, 2019, 06:30 PM   #49
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No history. But she is THE one.

Plus, I watched far too many Westerns as a kid!
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Old October 16, 2019, 07:41 PM   #50
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OP I hope you get justice and that FFL never handles another colt. I never even thought about needing to alert a store that my firearm was extra valuable and needed special care, I wouldn't have imagined I'd need to. I'm looking forward to this day I get my SAA and I will be sure to remember this incident and make a comment when I purchase.

Good luck in small claims, I don't think it will be hard to get several witnesses to offer favorable testimony.
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