Bound Log Book Recommendation

fourbore · December 19, 2016, 09:24 PM

I applied for my C&R and been on amazon looking at the required "bound log book". There are three on amazon and all have some complaints that there is not enough room for the information. Also something about photos. I dont believe photos are required. I dont mind photo space but I dont want that if it takes away space from the required text fields.

Can anyone recommend a book with generous space for all the required information. I am not interested in penny pinching and would prefer a reasonable quality product with ample space that will open up flat on the desk for writing.

jonnyc · December 19, 2016, 11:25 PM

Use the Bound Book pdf on this link:
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8986
Many of us use these pages in a loose-leaf binder. I put back-to-back pages in a clear plastic binder sleeve.

fourbore · December 20, 2016, 06:50 AM

AFT requires a bound book with the pages numbered. Right? The book is bound to make it somewhat tamper proof. I am super paranoid about doing this 100% by the book. Is a loose leaf considered bound, per ATF rules? My LGS told me it was supposed to be a bound book, similar to what they use.

Since I posted, I found I had an old bound engineering notebook, that is bound with 156 numbered pages (sides). The pages have have a grid pattern (4x4 quad). I could record one gun per numbered side. The only difference is instead of little boxes left to right I would have information vertical, with a line per item. That would allow me a lot of room and easy to line out an error and make a corrected entry under. Assuming the format is flexable. Can I do that, I wonder?

fourbore · December 20, 2016, 07:01 AM

This link has a list of guns classified as C&R plus a summary of related law. The list maybe growing all the time, but I assume none have been removed. Lot of confusing legal details.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/gu...30011/download

from page 9

Quote:

§ 478.125 Record of receipt and disposition (f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors.

Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms Curios or Relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below.

I am concerned about the format prescribed below. How literally do they mean that. Format being content or as in little boxes left to right?

Don P · December 20, 2016, 07:57 AM

Here ya go nice and simple, http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/FFL+...equestid=66756
and another choice, http://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...FYpWDQodNU4LqQ

fourbore · December 20, 2016, 08:22 AM

I was looking at the same two from barnes and noble (on amazon) and both had some complaints with the area being small or a tight fit for the required information. And wasted place for a photo, which I do not want or need. That was what led me to post here. I should have included a link in my initial post.

Those Brownell pages are formatted for a dealer, a C&R log will be different.

The book/pages at Brownell are interesting. It appears to be loose leaf ! If that is allowed, I might take jonnyc suggestion. Or, I can use the computer to compose my own pages similar to the recommended Illinois website download. But, one gun per page, with lots of space. Nice thing about loose leaf, is I can just start over on a clean sheet if I make an error.

Ernest T · December 20, 2016, 05:32 PM

This is also the one I use: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index...attach_id=1286

Not only is it free, you can simply print more pages as needed. Using a 3 hole binder to keep these pages in also allows you to put copies of C&R licenses from purchases, bills of sale, and other documents all in your notebook, so everything stays together.

jonnyc · December 20, 2016, 11:03 PM

If you do the research you will find that ATF is fine with a loose-leaf binder.

Don P · December 21, 2016, 07:58 AM

Quote:

I was looking at the same two from barnes and noble (on amazon) and both had some complaints with the area being small or a tight fit for the required information. And wasted place for a photo, which I do not want or need. That was what led me to post here. I should have included a link in my initial post.

Those Brownell pages are formatted for a dealer, a C&R log will be different.

The book/pages at Brownell are interesting. It appears to be loose leaf ! If that is allowed, I might take jonnyc suggestion. Or, I can use the computer to compose my own pages similar to the recommended Illinois website download. But, one gun per page, with lots of space. Nice thing about loose leaf, is I can just start over on a clean sheet if I make an error.

I really think you are over thinking this. I have not had the ATF do a home inspection to date and have had my FFL-03 for 6 years. Being we as C&R holders are not doing business the likelihood of a home inspection is very low but not impossible.

noelf2 · December 21, 2016, 08:12 AM

Quote:

If you do the research you will find that ATF is fine with a loose-leaf binder.

This is also what I do. Been using the same home made binder for about 9 years now.

fourbore · December 21, 2016, 09:34 AM

In anticipation of going loose leaf, I made up my own version of the Illinois sheets, numbered with the same content, just bigger boxes. One gun per page. The only addition I made as my name and place for my FFL number at the top. Since bound in this case can easily become loose.

Can anyone provide a pointer to a source (the research) that gives a definitive answer to what is meant by "bound" in this situation. I can look, I can do home work too, but; if you know please share with me.

emcon5 · December 21, 2016, 11:11 AM

I use an excel template, add the entries on the computer then print them out and put them in a binder. The front of the binder has the entries, and the back has divider tabs with a spot for each gun entered, with the supporting docs, receipts, FFLs,or anything else.

And ATF is fine with a binder:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-bound-book

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATF

What is a "bound book?"

The firearms acquisition and disposition (A&D) record, also known as a “bound book”, is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose–leaf pages which must be maintained at the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations and the pages must be numbered consecutively.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(A); 27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125]

fourbore · December 21, 2016, 12:25 PM

emcon,

You the man! That was the legalize I hope to find.

I also like the excell idea too. I may try that. Either way better dealing with loose leaf pages in a binder than a traditional bound book and sweating bullets over every entry.

December 19, 2016, 09:24 PM	#1
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Bound Log Book Recommendation I applied for my C&R and been on amazon looking at the required "bound log book". There are three on amazon and all have some complaints that there is not enough room for the information. Also something about photos. I dont believe photos are required. I dont mind photo space but I dont want that if it takes away space from the required text fields. Can anyone recommend a book with generous space for all the required information. I am not interested in penny pinching and would prefer a reasonable quality product with ample space that will open up flat on the desk for writing. Last edited by fourbore; December 19, 2016 at 09:32 PM.

December 19, 2016, 11:25 PM	#2
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Use the Bound Book pdf on this link: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8986 Many of us use these pages in a loose-leaf binder. I put back-to-back pages in a clear plastic binder sleeve. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

December 20, 2016, 06:50 AM	#3
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	AFT requires a bound book with the pages numbered. Right? The book is bound to make it somewhat tamper proof. I am super paranoid about doing this 100% by the book. Is a loose leaf considered bound, per ATF rules? My LGS told me it was supposed to be a bound book, similar to what they use. Since I posted, I found I had an old bound engineering notebook, that is bound with 156 numbered pages (sides). The pages have have a grid pattern (4x4 quad). I could record one gun per numbered side. The only difference is instead of little boxes left to right I would have information vertical, with a line per item. That would allow me a lot of room and easy to line out an error and make a corrected entry under. Assuming the format is flexable. Can I do that, I wonder? Last edited by fourbore; December 20, 2016 at 07:13 AM.

December 20, 2016, 07:57 AM	#5
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Here ya go nice and simple, http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/FFL+...equestid=66756 and another choice, http://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...FYpWDQodNU4LqQ __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 20, 2016, 08:22 AM	#6
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I was looking at the same two from barnes and noble (on amazon) and both had some complaints with the area being small or a tight fit for the required information. And wasted place for a photo, which I do not want or need. That was what led me to post here. I should have included a link in my initial post. Those Brownell pages are formatted for a dealer, a C&R log will be different. The book/pages at Brownell are interesting. It appears to be loose leaf ! If that is allowed, I might take jonnyc suggestion. Or, I can use the computer to compose my own pages similar to the recommended Illinois website download. But, one gun per page, with lots of space. Nice thing about loose leaf, is I can just start over on a clean sheet if I make an error. Last edited by fourbore; December 20, 2016 at 09:35 AM.

December 20, 2016, 05:32 PM	#7
Ernest T Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2015 Posts: 104	This is also the one I use: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index...attach_id=1286 Not only is it free, you can simply print more pages as needed. Using a 3 hole binder to keep these pages in also allows you to put copies of C&R licenses from purchases, bills of sale, and other documents all in your notebook, so everything stays together.

December 20, 2016, 11:03 PM	#8
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	If you do the research you will find that ATF is fine with a loose-leaf binder. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

December 21, 2016, 09:34 AM	#11
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	In anticipation of going loose leaf, I made up my own version of the Illinois sheets, numbered with the same content, just bigger boxes. One gun per page. The only addition I made as my name and place for my FFL number at the top. Since bound in this case can easily become loose. Can anyone provide a pointer to a source (the research) that gives a definitive answer to what is meant by "bound" in this situation. I can look, I can do home work too, but; if you know please share with me.

December 21, 2016, 12:25 PM	#13
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	emcon, You the man! That was the legalize I hope to find. I also like the excell idea too. I may try that. Either way better dealing with loose leaf pages in a binder than a traditional bound book and sweating bullets over every entry.