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Old March 22, 2019, 11:44 PM   #1
ninosdemente
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Hornady Headspacer

If one has the Hornady OAL gauge, is the Hornady Headspacer needed as well? I have been seeing videos on the Hornady OAl and have seen a good number of videos also using the Hornady Headspacer. Thanks in advanced!
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Old March 22, 2019, 11:53 PM   #2
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Are you talking about the Hornady headspace comparator?

If so, then I say it's not vital, but is very useful.
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Old March 22, 2019, 11:58 PM   #3
ninosdemente
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This Hornady Headspacer:

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...prod35168.aspx

I have the bullet comparator already.
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Old March 23, 2019, 09:41 AM   #4
F. Guffey
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If one has the Hornady OAL gauge, is the Hornady Headspacer needed as well? I have been seeing videos on the Hornady OAl and have seen a good number of videos also using the Hornady Headspacer. Thanks in advanced!
The case does not have head space. I make datums, WHY? ! Because that is what I do. Is there a difference in datums? The difference in datums determines if the tool/gage is a comparator or an accurate tool. Hornady tools are made with a radius, an accurate datum has a sharp edge, the sharp edge is not case friendly; I choose not to be friendly to the case I want to know the distance from the datum to the head of the case because I want to know the length of the case from the datum to the case head.

We have had the Wilson case gage with us from before you were born to the present time; the Wilson case gage has a datum, the datum in the Wilson case gage has a radius yes I know EEK! But not to worry, Wilson put it all together 75 years ago by verifying the Wilson case gage before it left the factory. And to think reloaders called the Wilson case gage a 'drop in gage'.

And I said I could verify a head space gage with a Wilson case gage with no more than a flat surface or a straight edge and a feeler gage.

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Old March 23, 2019, 10:51 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ninosdemente View Post
If one has the Hornady OAL gauge, is the Hornady Headspacer needed as well? I have been seeing videos on the Hornady OAl and have seen a good number of videos also using the Hornady Headspacer. Thanks in advanced!
Head space and overall length are not really related. Using the headspace gauge is not really checking your actual guns headspace but instead is checking your case against a standard chamber. Typically, it works pretty well unless you are totally anal about having absolutely perfect head space for your particular rifle.

I'm sure you've heard of "bumping the shoulder". This is how we control the distance between a chambered cases head and the bolt face. Bolt lugs wear over time and can cause headspace to change. I have armorers head space gauges (go and no go) that I use to keep track of wear. I have Wilson case gauges that make it quick and easy to setup my sizing dies when I'm more interested it producing ammo then I am about total perfection.
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Old March 23, 2019, 01:18 PM   #6
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No. An OAL gauge is all you need. And you don't need one of those as long as you have a vernier calipre. A Vernier can be locked at whatever length you need, like the Max case length given in your manual, or the Max OAL, also given in your manual.
That Hornady thing is not a head space gauge. Cases do not have head space. And there's no such thing as a 'standard' chamber. Every one of 'em is slightly different.
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Old March 23, 2019, 01:43 PM   #7
F. Guffey
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That Hornady thing is not a head space gauge.
Quote:
That Hornady thing is not a head space gauge. Cases do not have head space.
Quote:
And there's no such thing as a 'standard' chamber. Every one of 'em is slightly different.
That puts Linestretcher back to a point he will have to start over. Somewhere in there he should have said something about measuring before and again after. And the next time I suggest he find a way to introduce the word; clearance.

And then there is 'fire forming', that is something like chambering a round and then pulling the trigger. Pulling the trigger makes the shooter a fire former if (big F) he measures before firing and again after firing, and then there is the carrying the number to the next dot; measure after sizing. After that he can say he bumped the shoulder back .002" if he knows and understands enough abut his dies and the way they were designed to work.

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Old March 23, 2019, 04:28 PM   #8
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The Hornady case comparator provides an indirect measurement of chamber headspace by letting a fired cases serve as a transfer measurement gage that is close to the size of the chamber. You can use it to determine how far you really need to resize your cases so you don't overexercise them.
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Old March 23, 2019, 04:54 PM   #9
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The Hornady case comparator
That's what it does but not what it's called . As you've pointed out many times . We don't want to confuse the new reloaders so it's best you call it by it's actual name .

The correct term/name of the tool is a HORNADY - LOCK-N-LOAD™ HEADSPACE GAUGE TOOL

I find it interesting that you don't want to call the tool by it's actual name . I'm sure it was just an oversight on your part because you never want to confuse the members here .

https://shop.brownells.com/reloading...RoC0nQQAvD_BwE

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/44...BoCOxEQAvD_BwE

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-HK66-...gateway&sr=8-1

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Horn...uge/740263.uts

https://www.natchezss.com/hornady-lo...-bushings.html

Seems pretty clear what this tool is called .

Just trying to be clear and accurate so we don't confuse anyone

Hope this helped
MG
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Old March 23, 2019, 05:05 PM   #10
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It's odd that all of those vendors call it a headspace gauge tool or kit. Hornady themselves call it a Headspace Comparator.

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/pr...il-base-kit#!/

Maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from.
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Old March 23, 2019, 05:38 PM   #11
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ROFLOL... Now I'm confused... No, not really, I'm a pretty darn good re loader because I read books published by well known re loaders and then refine the techniques that I have learned.

So my advice about using the gauge is.. Go get a couple of books and learn properly. Make a list of the things you need to get started reloading, buy them and learn from the books how to use them. Case gauges are kind of important for basic reloading so even the multi-case gauges are a good addition to you reloading room.

Once you get to the point where you're using fire formed brass dedicated to a specific rifle you can start getting anal about all the finer points of reloading. Truth be told, a lot of it is wasted time but if it makes you feel better than have at it.

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Old March 23, 2019, 05:43 PM   #12
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Hornady changed the name when they bought the comparator system (bullet and case and gauge) from Stoney Point. The original was The Stoney Point Head 'n Shoulders Cartridge Headspace Gauge. Cartridge Headspace is a synonym for chamber headspace, as described here, and is a property of the chamber and not of the cartridge.

Case Headspace could be interpreted as a synonym for chamber headspace, too. The problem is an ambiguity in English syntax which allows you to read either term as meaning headspace to accommodate a cartridge or a case, a property belonging to the chamber, or it may be read to mean a property somehow belonging to the cartridge or case itself. The former works without conflict with SAAMI drawings or other published information on the meaning of headspace, but many people read it as the latter, which has no literal meaning as you don't normally fit cartridges or heads inside another cartridge or case. But that notion of it being a case property persists. I am gradually concluding the term Case Headspace is here to stay, since someone at Hornady seems to have mangled its meaning during the takeover of that portion of the Stoney Point line, but we can always hope to educate people to read it in the first interpretation so it at least achieves some form of literal meaning.
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Old March 23, 2019, 06:37 PM   #13
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Hornady changed the name when they bought the comparator system
This must mean they recently bought the rights to the gauge/tool and changed the name then ??? With in the last 4 years or so ???

Here is the packaging paperwork I got with my set about 4 years ago





Incase you missed it



They must have forgot to forward me the memo when they changed the name .
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Old March 23, 2019, 06:59 PM   #14
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They can call it anything they want, but it doesn't change what it is.
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Old March 23, 2019, 07:41 PM   #15
Metal god
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Oh but it does . Think of it like a newly discovered star . Because it’s new and there is no name for it whoever discovers it or makes it gets to name it what ever they want and the rest of us must except it regardless of what the name is .

It’s been said a 1000 times on here now that SAAMI never said this and SAAMI never named that . Well if there was never a name for this method then the inventer gets to call it what they want period .

It is a headspace gauge , it’s just not the best design because it requires a fired case from the rifle to measure it's headspace . All kinds of things that can go wrong with that type of method . None the less it’s still measuring the headspace of that rifle just not as well as other methods .
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Old March 24, 2019, 09:34 AM   #16
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Well, if Hornady is confused about the name of their own product , there's no hope for the rest of us. I'm all for calling it the Hornady headspace measuring thingy.
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Old March 24, 2019, 12:36 PM   #17
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None the less it’s still measuring the headspace of that rifle just not as well as other methods .
Since it is not a precise measurement, that makes it a comparator.
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Old March 24, 2019, 02:07 PM   #18
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Bolt lugs wear over time and can cause headspace to change.
If your bolt lugs actually change over time, you are in peril of a blow out. Head space gauges is there to check the initial set and if you do a barrel change.

If you bolt lugs are wearing so is your lug recess in the chamber. If you find the head space is acualy increasing then its time to replace the rifle or have it repaired (there is one operation that does it but its probably a waste of good money)

Loose lugs (and or lug recess) = movement = more movement= more movement
until a lug shears.
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Old March 24, 2019, 02:13 PM   #19
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Since it is not a precise measurement, that makes it a comparator.
Not when measuring headspace of a specific chamber because you're not comparing it to anything . You are taking the press fit case and measuring it to get the size of the chamber it was fired from . At this point you have not "compared" it to anything .

Quote:
Since it is not a precise measurement
Neither is a headspace gauge . You still need to use shims to get your actual headspace . I have a rifle that does not close on a no go gauge if I lightly try to close the bolt but If I want I can force the bolt closed . What is my headspace in that rifle , under a nogo gauge length or right at a nogo gauge length . Doesn't sound to precise a tool to me .

Can't you use a headspace gauge to compare one chamber to the next ? Does that make it a comparator as well ? Like the example above none of my other rifles chambered in that same cartridge can close on that same nogo gauge ( forced or not ) That sounds like I can use that gauge to compare chambers ?? If so , is it no longer a gauge and just a comparator ?

The problem as I see it is there are a few that are stuck on one definition of something and can't except that words evolve over time . I also go back to if SAAMI never had a definition for something . Does that mean it can't be defined ? Does this mean the very thing most of us know and do/use actually doesn't exist ? Does the fact SAAMI never said or defined something mean nobody else can either ? Even if there is something to be defined ?
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Old March 24, 2019, 06:08 PM   #20
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Well I am so totally confused as to be blithering now.

I just think its a headspace gauge with reading so course you can see it to any precision (like a quasi micrometer I have that only measure to 1/16) .
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Old March 24, 2019, 07:58 PM   #21
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There is more to write about the "headspace" tool sold by Hornady (which is really a comparator) by nature and not by name.

One thing to keep in mind is that the fired case is not the same dimensions as the chamber.....there is always going to be a slight difference, therefore, the person doing the measuring is actually comparing the fired case to the chamber.

I will let this go since it is a never ending argument and could go on for pages.

Each of us has ideas as to what we want to do, just the methods and tools might be different, no matter what they are called.

BUT, the Hornady tool is still a comparator no matter what it is called.

Good luck in your endeavors.
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Old March 25, 2019, 08:53 AM   #22
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Each of us has ideas as to what we want to do, just the methods and tools might be different, no matter what they are called.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_p...d_the_Elephant

And no one ever notices at the end of the investigation all were wrong but partially correct.

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Old March 26, 2019, 01:42 PM   #23
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Thank you guys for the replies. Wasn't expecting much replies. Guess should have wrote the full name of the tool for the title. Lol

I have been looking at many, many videos on Lock-N-Load® O.A.L. Gauges. As more I see, then I started seeing the Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator, then started hearing about shoulder bump. Also about being off twenty thousandths off the lance (the most repeated number from the videos I have seen). So as a beginer this has thrown me off a bit. But doesn't mean I have not tried to read on all that I have been seeing/hearing on the videos.

If I would have seen the video when I began, I would have bought all the tools, lol. At least now I have learned that is not the case all the time as I do have some tools that I will probably not use. Then again, can never say never.
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Old March 26, 2019, 02:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ninosdemente View Post
Thank you guys for the replies. Wasn't expecting much replies. Guess should have wrote the full name of the tool for the title. Lol

I have been looking at many, many videos on Lock-N-Load® O.A.L. Gauges. As more I see, then I started seeing the Lock-N-Load® Headspace Comparator, then started hearing about shoulder bump. Also about being off twenty thousandths off the lance (the most repeated number from the videos I have seen). So as a beginer this has thrown me off a bit. But doesn't mean I have not tried to read on all that I have been seeing/hearing on the videos.

If I would have seen the video when I began, I would have bought all the tools, lol. At least now I have learned that is not the case all the time as I do have some tools that I will probably not use. Then again, can never say never.
The tools are not wasted, there will come a time when something happens that you don't expect and those tools will come flying out of the drawers. Beats the heck out of sitting there waiting for the UPS guy and overthinking until you're on the verge of going crazy.. LOL..
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Old March 26, 2019, 02:25 PM   #25
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Yes LineStretcher, I have been in that position as well, LOL. The worst part is when it says UPS delivery date 3-25-19 and the sun is setting quickly and still hoping the UPS guy will show up before it gets dark and nothing. LOL.
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