Question about a sawed off rifle...

GLP Standard · October 6, 2008, 02:32 AM

Just wondering, what would make a sawed off rifle illegal? Is this considered a Title 2 firearm? Im not sure at all what the law is on it, but IIRC, you can't just go cutting the stock off on a rifle. I could be wrong, but isnt that illegal? What does the law say about having a full size rifle cut down to have a pistol grip?

Bill DeShivs · October 6, 2008, 02:39 AM

Federal law says the gun must be 26" overall, with a barrel length of 16 inches. It says nothing about pistol grips.

GLP Standard · October 6, 2008, 02:49 AM

Okay. Reason I ask is because a guy at work bought an old rifle off of some guy he knows for $20.00, and for some reason (I might be able to guess why) the guy that had it cut off the stock, leaving just a pistol grip. The guy I work with wanted me to take a look at it and see what I could do with it, and I told him I wouldn't touch it till I found out for sure what the law was on something that has been modified in such a way.

The weapon is a Squibman Model 20a. Its not in bad shape (aside from the fact that it doesnt have a magazine and the stock is sawed off) but does anyone know ANYTHING at all about these? I cant find much on them. Is it possible to get parts for them anymore? I know its probably not worth it, as its made in the Phillipines, but I told him I would look into it.

VUPDblue · October 6, 2008, 07:41 AM

Time to bust out the ol' tape measure! As long as it falls into the 16"/26" category it's GTG.

ISC · October 6, 2008, 08:14 AM

To be legal a rifle has to have a 26 inch overall length and 16 inch barrel.

To be legal a shotgun has to have a 26 inch overall length and 18 inch barrel.

You can go shorter if you register it as a "any other weapon" and pay the tax, but that's a PITA.

VUPDblue · October 6, 2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

You can go shorter if you register it as a "any other weapon" and pay the tax, but that's a PITA.

Look! Another NFA un-truth! It can't be, not on teh interwebs.....nooooooooooooooooooooooo

ISC · October 6, 2008, 03:32 PM

what are you saying, that AOW is not a PITA or that you aren't allowed to register SBS/SBR?

aroundlsu · October 6, 2008, 04:06 PM

I think he means registering it as a "short barrel shotgun/rifle" would be a more accurate statement. AOWs are specific types of shotguns such as the Serbu Super Shorty. You can't just register anything as an AOW.

Also, once you do it a few times it's no longer a PITA. It's a lot like buying a house. The first time will seem overwhelming. Once you do it a couple of times it's not that big of a deal.

VUPDblue · October 6, 2008, 05:43 PM

You can't just go around 'registering' something as an AOW all willy nilly. An AOW has a very specific definition, just like SBR's and SBS's. Rifles that are shorter than the 16"/26" rule are Short Barreled Rifles, or SBR's. Shotguns that are shorter than the 18"/26" rule are Short Barreled Shotguns, or SBS's. Items like the Serbu Super Shorty were never *legally* shotguns in the first place, thus they are AOW's.

Filing the NFA paperwork is not nearly as difficult as some people make it out to be.

FLRich · November 2, 2008, 09:14 AM

OK so when you measure a barrel do you measure from the crown to the end of the threads or somwhere else. For instance a 870 barrel, from the edge of the choke to where the receiver meets or to the end of the barrel when removed, there are a few inches of difference there.

tomgun · November 2, 2008, 09:35 AM

with the chamber loaded insert a dowel in the barrell,when it stops on the round mark,remove and measure.

freakshow10mm · November 2, 2008, 09:50 AM

Chamber loaded? Spare me.

Get a skinny tape measure. MAKE SURE THE DAMN GUN IS UNLOADED!! Close the action and slide the tape measure down until it hits the breech face (stops). Take the measurement at the muzzle of the barrel.

Barrel measurement is from the breech face to muzzle with the action closed, essentially where the barrel and receiver meet, that's the starting point.

Joat · November 2, 2008, 09:53 AM

Correction - "The Length of the majority of rifle barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed breach on a line parrellel to the axis of the bore" ATF National Firearms Handbook, Chapter 2, Page 6.

Barrel length includes the length of the UNLOADED chamber with a few exceptions.

Joat

Freakshow beat me to it.

David Hineline · November 2, 2008, 02:42 PM

That rifle in good shape would only be worth a couple hundred dollars. There are magazines for sale for it on gunbroker.com for around $25 each.

Might try gun parts or jack first for replacement stock.

imp · November 24, 2008, 04:27 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but why can't you just take the stock off while you try to find a replacement? Then, it's just a barreled action, which is, if I am correct, just parts, and not a weapon at all. Assuming the barrel meets the 18" mark.

October 6, 2008, 02:32 AM	#1
GLP Standard Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2005 Posts: 286	Question about a sawed off rifle... Just wondering, what would make a sawed off rifle illegal? Is this considered a Title 2 firearm? Im not sure at all what the law is on it, but IIRC, you can't just go cutting the stock off on a rifle. I could be wrong, but isnt that illegal? What does the law say about having a full size rifle cut down to have a pistol grip?

October 6, 2008, 02:39 AM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Federal law says the gun must be 26" overall, with a barrel length of 16 inches. It says nothing about pistol grips. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 6, 2008, 07:41 AM	#4
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Time to bust out the ol' tape measure! As long as it falls into the 16"/26" category it's GTG. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

October 6, 2008, 05:43 PM	#9
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	You can't just go around 'registering' something as an AOW all willy nilly. An AOW has a very specific definition, just like SBR's and SBS's. Rifles that are shorter than the 16"/26" rule are Short Barreled Rifles, or SBR's. Shotguns that are shorter than the 18"/26" rule are Short Barreled Shotguns, or SBS's. Items like the Serbu Super Shorty were never legally shotguns in the first place, thus they are AOW's. Filing the NFA paperwork is not nearly as difficult as some people make it out to be. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

November 2, 2008, 09:35 AM	#11
tomgun Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Location: penna,no wait state Posts: 187	barrel measurement with the chamber loaded insert a dowel in the barrell,when it stops on the round mark,remove and measure.

October 6, 2008, 02:49 AM	#3
GLP Standard Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2005 Posts: 286	Okay. Reason I ask is because a guy at work bought an old rifle off of some guy he knows for $20.00, and for some reason (I might be able to guess why) the guy that had it cut off the stock, leaving just a pistol grip. The guy I work with wanted me to take a look at it and see what I could do with it, and I told him I wouldn't touch it till I found out for sure what the law was on something that has been modified in such a way. The weapon is a Squibman Model 20a. Its not in bad shape (aside from the fact that it doesnt have a magazine and the stock is sawed off) but does anyone know ANYTHING at all about these? I cant find much on them. Is it possible to get parts for them anymore? I know its probably not worth it, as its made in the Phillipines, but I told him I would look into it.

October 6, 2008, 08:14 AM	#5
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	To be legal a rifle has to have a 26 inch overall length and 16 inch barrel. To be legal a shotgun has to have a 26 inch overall length and 18 inch barrel. You can go shorter if you register it as a "any other weapon" and pay the tax, but that's a PITA.

October 6, 2008, 03:32 PM	#7
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	what are you saying, that AOW is not a PITA or that you aren't allowed to register SBS/SBR?

October 6, 2008, 04:06 PM	#8
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	I think he means registering it as a "short barrel shotgun/rifle" would be a more accurate statement. AOWs are specific types of shotguns such as the Serbu Super Shorty. You can't just register anything as an AOW. Also, once you do it a few times it's no longer a PITA. It's a lot like buying a house. The first time will seem overwhelming. Once you do it a couple of times it's not that big of a deal.

November 2, 2008, 09:14 AM	#10
FLRich Member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: Republik of the Amerikas Posts: 32	OK so when you measure a barrel do you measure from the crown to the end of the threads or somwhere else. For instance a 870 barrel, from the edge of the choke to where the receiver meets or to the end of the barrel when removed, there are a few inches of difference there.

November 2, 2008, 09:50 AM	#12
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Chamber loaded? Spare me. Get a skinny tape measure. MAKE SURE THE DAMN GUN IS UNLOADED!! Close the action and slide the tape measure down until it hits the breech face (stops). Take the measurement at the muzzle of the barrel. Barrel measurement is from the breech face to muzzle with the action closed, essentially where the barrel and receiver meet, that's the starting point.

November 2, 2008, 09:53 AM	#13
Joat Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2008 Location: Dayton, TX Posts: 383	Correction - "The Length of the majority of rifle barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed breach on a line parrellel to the axis of the bore" ATF National Firearms Handbook, Chapter 2, Page 6. Barrel length includes the length of the UNLOADED chamber with a few exceptions. Joat Freakshow beat me to it. __________________ All things being equal, fat people use more soap. (I know I am one.) High speed, low drag does not even come close to describing ME.

November 2, 2008, 02:42 PM	#14
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	That rifle That rifle in good shape would only be worth a couple hundred dollars. There are magazines for sale for it on gunbroker.com for around $25 each. Might try gun parts or jack first for replacement stock.

November 24, 2008, 04:27 AM	#15
imp Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 626	Pardon my ignorance, but why can't you just take the stock off while you try to find a replacement? Then, it's just a barreled action, which is, if I am correct, just parts, and not a weapon at all. Assuming the barrel meets the 18" mark.