What will flack vest stop?

woodland · December 27, 2002, 01:54 PM

I have one of the current issue military "flack vests". I got it at a gun show for $25. I figured at that price it was something cool to add to my strange collection.

So, I was wondering, anyone know how these vests are rated? The guy told me it was rated as class 3 armour. But he didn't seem to know much about some of the other stuff he had, so I don't have much faith in what he said about this.
I'm just curious if anyone knows what it will and wont stop. If it is class 3, I might keep it near the bed, to throw on for those "bump in the night" situations.
By the way, it is like brand new. There are no signs of wear at all.
Thanks for the help.

Powderman · December 27, 2002, 04:34 PM

If it is one of the older flak jackets, not too much at all. The original concept was to stop fragments from exploding artillery, mortars and grenades, which account for a lot of casualties--much more than direct hits by bullets.

It might slow down small caliber rounds that impact on a perpendicular angle of attack, but not rounds that hit dead on.

woodland · December 27, 2002, 04:47 PM

It's one of the new kind, like you see them wearing on the news right now. It's probably a little better than a half inch thick. Woodland camo, velcro closure on the front, two angled pockets on the front, and about a 1" high collar.

Powderman · December 27, 2002, 06:03 PM

Don't know much about those, but if I am correct those might be a bit closer to actual body armor than a flak jacket. Check out the spec label; it should have the contractor on it.

woodland · December 27, 2002, 09:07 PM

I can't look at the label right now, as it is stored at my folks' for the time being. I think you are right though, that these are better than the old flack vests like from Vietnam. As thick as it is, and I'm pretty sure it is kevlar, it should stop some rounds, I would think.
I don't really want to go and shoot it up to find out. Maybe if I found another ine for the same price.

CWL · December 28, 2002, 12:21 AM

Flack vests stop Flak, -that is shrapnel. Shrapnel is low velocity and is nowhere near the speed of modern rifle ammo. Forget about handgun bullets either.

It is probably made of ballistic nylon, which is the same nylon used in backpacks, belts, etc.

If it were made of kevlar, be aware that kevlar and similiar products degrade over time and has a service life of a few years only.

Don't go using that $25 flack vest for anything other than a curio.

weerwolf · December 29, 2002, 01:33 PM

Standard flack jack , like the one used in Vietnamm is level 1.
This means :
- fragmentation
- Light caliber:
* .22
* .32
* 9x17mm

And no more then that

Jeff White · December 29, 2002, 03:23 PM

From your description, it sounds like you've got a PAGST vest. They are made of kevlar. Soldier of Fortune actually shot some for an article several years ago. IIRC they were close to level II. Good against many handgun rounds, but noting with rifle velocities.

Kevlar does deteriorate with age. However that's not important to the military. Deploy somewhere and you're just as likely to get a 15 year old vest issued as you are a new one.

Current issue is a level III vest made by Point Blank called the Interceptor. It's lighter and less bulky then the PAGST vest. It has provisions to accept SAPI plates which are a composite hard plate that will stop rifle fire.

Jeff

**4V50 Gary** · December 31, 2002, 08:20 PM

Yep. Good for handguns and that's about all.

Go to the National Civil War Soldier's Museum near Petersburg, Virginia. They have on display a bullet proof vest that was sold by the suttlers to the soldiers. It was briefly popular at the beginning of the war, then the weight and ineffectiveness became apparent and soldiers got rid of them. I've read only very few accounts of soldiers wearing them past '63.

colohad · December 31, 2002, 10:24 PM

My >2 year old Level III vest is a composite plate in a carrier which the lable says , is rated at Level IIIa, without the plate inserted. The outward facing of the plate says " Will defeat .308 Cal.".
My 1 year old Level IV plate reads " Will defeat 30-06 AP". The carrier is exactly the same as above mentioned. Rated at Level IIIa, without plate inserted in the carrier.
My Flack Jacket, new issue to me in '71, had real value under your butt while sitting in the Huey. But, few of us wore them "in-field".
I was told they were flack rated only. Flack= low velocity shrapnel. I think the troops operating near camps and airfields did usually wear their jackets.
If you are thinking about your response plan for the "Bump in the night" situation, do not include the flack jacket. There are so many other considerations which would be of much greater value.
But, as you mentioned, a nice little addition to your strange things collection.
Also, follow Powderman's suggestion, check the label. Remember- they have changed the specs several times over the years. The latest I'm aware of was the C-1 Rev. 1/15/02.
Enjoy your piece of history.
colohad

trapshooter · May 19, 2004, 01:05 PM

Code:

Q If it is class 3, I might keep it near the bed, to throw on for those "bump in the night" situations./Q

I know some people will say it takes too long to put on for this purpose, an not that long ago I might have agreed. BUT...fear is a good motivator, and it's really surprising how fast you can throw the stuff on when you feel the need.

The question you have to answer is, do you go for the armor, or something that will do a bit more good? I know what my answer was, but it's not up for discussion at the moment. Later, maybe. One rule is, no sea stories while you are still at sea, figuratively speaking.

I will say this, all of it is hot. This is good when it's really cold outside and all you have on besides the vest is street clothes and a windbreaker. (Again, maybe some other time on the anecdotal evidence, but it involves riding in vehicles with the doors off for a really good reason).

However, when it is really, really hot already, and you have to wear the stuff, you can lose a lot of water weight real fast. Add the extra weight of the SAPI plates (pretty heavy, but worth it), and you have a do-it-yourself weight loss plan walking. I recommend against jumping around in strange terrain. The stuff will mess up your balance until you get used to it. But I survived that lesson ok. That was a while back.

BTW, Howdy to Rich and everyone, from the land of sand, kinda, anyway. Glad to see TFL back up.

kidcoltoutlaw · May 19, 2004, 04:51 PM

is will it stop all the flack most of us get from the old bag when we buy a new gun.who made it go to there web page and check the specs on it,thanks,keith

AK103K · May 19, 2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

will it stop all the flack most of us get from the old bag when we buy a new gun

They dont make wearable armor that can do that!

If your looking for armor, check out EBay. They have lots of it, in all shapes and sizes, and you can get some real good deals if you keep at it. They dont have many Interceptor's or the plates anymore since the big stink, but you can get PASGAT and the German flak vests. I've got some great deals on Second Chance, Safariland, and PACA vests. The Second Chance was a new level II, the others like new, one IIa and a III. All are dated 2000 and up. You can pick up trama and stell plates for them cheap too.

SapperLeader · May 23, 2004, 12:48 PM

While Ive bought many things off of ebay, I personalyl wouldnt be too comfortable purchasing body armor off ebay. If you percieve a need for armor, or just want some, I think buying new or even used from a reputable source would be well worth it.

MAD DOG · May 23, 2004, 09:20 PM

For all of the information on Zylon and other armor problems and panaceas, go to Tactical Forums and use the search function in the MD Labs forum with "Zylon" or "armor"as the search word.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...?ubb=forum;f=5

El Lurch · June 3, 2004, 08:59 AM

I have an ancient flak jacket like the kind issued in the Vietnam era - I think it was made in the mid-50s. Folded over, it gave guys in Hueys a good chance of saving the crown jewels from being hit by ground fire.

I have been thinking of getting a modern ballistic shield for home defense purposes - not to clear the house with, but to provide cover for family moving to the safe room and to have a safe shooting position. My wife gets to wear the 30 pound flak jacket to protect her from any flying bullet pieces and spent ricochets.

December 27, 2002, 01:54 PM	#1
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	What will flack vest stop? I have one of the current issue military "flack vests". I got it at a gun show for $25. I figured at that price it was something cool to add to my strange collection. So, I was wondering, anyone know how these vests are rated? The guy told me it was rated as class 3 armour. But he didn't seem to know much about some of the other stuff he had, so I don't have much faith in what he said about this. I'm just curious if anyone knows what it will and wont stop. If it is class 3, I might keep it near the bed, to throw on for those "bump in the night" situations. By the way, it is like brand new. There are no signs of wear at all. Thanks for the help. __________________ "There is no spoon..."

December 27, 2002, 04:34 PM	#2
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	If it is one of the older flak jackets, not too much at all. The original concept was to stop fragments from exploding artillery, mortars and grenades, which account for a lot of casualties--much more than direct hits by bullets. It might slow down small caliber rounds that impact on a perpendicular angle of attack, but not rounds that hit dead on. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

December 27, 2002, 04:47 PM	#3
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	It's one of the new kind, like you see them wearing on the news right now. It's probably a little better than a half inch thick. Woodland camo, velcro closure on the front, two angled pockets on the front, and about a 1" high collar. __________________ "There is no spoon..."

December 27, 2002, 06:03 PM	#4
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Don't know much about those, but if I am correct those might be a bit closer to actual body armor than a flak jacket. Check out the spec label; it should have the contractor on it. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

December 27, 2002, 09:07 PM	#5
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	I can't look at the label right now, as it is stored at my folks' for the time being. I think you are right though, that these are better than the old flack vests like from Vietnam. As thick as it is, and I'm pretty sure it is kevlar, it should stop some rounds, I would think. I don't really want to go and shoot it up to find out. Maybe if I found another ine for the same price. __________________ "There is no spoon..."

December 28, 2002, 12:21 AM	#6
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	Flack vests stop Flak, -that is shrapnel. Shrapnel is low velocity and is nowhere near the speed of modern rifle ammo. Forget about handgun bullets either. It is probably made of ballistic nylon, which is the same nylon used in backpacks, belts, etc. If it were made of kevlar, be aware that kevlar and similiar products degrade over time and has a service life of a few years only. Don't go using that $25 flack vest for anything other than a curio. __________________ Vae Victis

December 29, 2002, 01:33 PM	#7
weerwolf Member Join Date: December 8, 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 28	Standard flack jack , like the one used in Vietnamm is level 1. This means : - fragmentation - Light caliber: * .22 * .32 * 9x17mm And no more then that __________________ veni , vedi , velcro I came , I saw and I stuck around

December 29, 2002, 03:23 PM	#8
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	From your description, it sounds like you've got a PAGST vest. They are made of kevlar. Soldier of Fortune actually shot some for an article several years ago. IIRC they were close to level II. Good against many handgun rounds, but noting with rifle velocities. Kevlar does deteriorate with age. However that's not important to the military. Deploy somewhere and you're just as likely to get a 15 year old vest issued as you are a new one. Current issue is a level III vest made by Point Blank called the Interceptor. It's lighter and less bulky then the PAGST vest. It has provisions to accept SAPI plates which are a composite hard plate that will stop rifle fire. Jeff

December 31, 2002, 08:20 PM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Yep. Good for handguns and that's about all. Go to the National Civil War Soldier's Museum near Petersburg, Virginia. They have on display a bullet proof vest that was sold by the suttlers to the soldiers. It was briefly popular at the beginning of the war, then the weight and ineffectiveness became apparent and soldiers got rid of them. I've read only very few accounts of soldiers wearing them past '63. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 31, 2002, 10:24 PM	#10
colohad Junior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Location: colorado Posts: 7	Flack Vest My >2 year old Level III vest is a composite plate in a carrier which the lable says , is rated at Level IIIa, without the plate inserted. The outward facing of the plate says " Will defeat .308 Cal.". My 1 year old Level IV plate reads " Will defeat 30-06 AP". The carrier is exactly the same as above mentioned. Rated at Level IIIa, without plate inserted in the carrier. My Flack Jacket, new issue to me in '71, had real value under your butt while sitting in the Huey. But, few of us wore them "in-field". I was told they were flack rated only. Flack= low velocity shrapnel. I think the troops operating near camps and airfields did usually wear their jackets. If you are thinking about your response plan for the "Bump in the night" situation, do not include the flack jacket. There are so many other considerations which would be of much greater value. But, as you mentioned, a nice little addition to your strange things collection. Also, follow Powderman's suggestion, check the label. Remember- they have changed the specs several times over the years. The latest I'm aware of was the C-1 Rev. 1/15/02. Enjoy your piece of history. colohad

May 19, 2004, 01:05 PM	#11
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	Code: Q If it is class 3, I might keep it near the bed, to throw on for those "bump in the night" situations./Q I know some people will say it takes too long to put on for this purpose, an not that long ago I might have agreed. BUT...fear is a good motivator, and it's really surprising how fast you can throw the stuff on when you feel the need. The question you have to answer is, do you go for the armor, or something that will do a bit more good? I know what my answer was, but it's not up for discussion at the moment. Later, maybe. One rule is, no sea stories while you are still at sea, figuratively speaking. I will say this, all of it is hot. This is good when it's really cold outside and all you have on besides the vest is street clothes and a windbreaker. (Again, maybe some other time on the anecdotal evidence, but it involves riding in vehicles with the doors off for a really good reason). However, when it is really, really hot already, and you have to wear the stuff, you can lose a lot of water weight real fast. Add the extra weight of the SAPI plates (pretty heavy, but worth it), and you have a do-it-yourself weight loss plan walking. I recommend against jumping around in strange terrain. The stuff will mess up your balance until you get used to it. But I survived that lesson ok. That was a while back. BTW, Howdy to Rich and everyone, from the land of sand, kinda, anyway. Glad to see TFL back up.

May 19, 2004, 04:51 PM	#12
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	the big ? is will it stop all the flack most of us get from the old bag when we buy a new gun.who made it go to there web page and check the specs on it,thanks,keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

May 23, 2004, 12:48 PM	#14
SapperLeader Member Join Date: November 14, 2002 Location: Woodbridge, Va Posts: 29	While Ive bought many things off of ebay, I personalyl wouldnt be too comfortable purchasing body armor off ebay. If you percieve a need for armor, or just want some, I think buying new or even used from a reputable source would be well worth it.

May 23, 2004, 09:20 PM	#15
MAD DOG Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona. Posts: 853	For all of the information on Zylon and other armor problems and panaceas, go to Tactical Forums and use the search function in the MD Labs forum with "Zylon" or "armor"as the search word. http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...?ubb=forum;f=5 __________________ BOYCOTT COSTCO!! http://www.tacticalforums.com

June 3, 2004, 08:59 AM	#16
El Lurch Member Join Date: August 9, 2001 Posts: 28	I have an ancient flak jacket like the kind issued in the Vietnam era - I think it was made in the mid-50s. Folded over, it gave guys in Hueys a good chance of saving the crown jewels from being hit by ground fire. I have been thinking of getting a modern ballistic shield for home defense purposes - not to clear the house with, but to provide cover for family moving to the safe room and to have a safe shooting position. My wife gets to wear the 30 pound flak jacket to protect her from any flying bullet pieces and spent ricochets.