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December 23, 2018, 06:07 PM | #76 |
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Thanks. My son in Alaska (in Haines, in SE) has told me before that the old timers around there HAVE told him that the black bears there CAN also be extremely dangerous.
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December 23, 2018, 06:29 PM | #77 | |||
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You'd have to gauge the bear's closing distance and speed just right while you're waiting to 'perfume' him with Wildcat Mcdude's guaranteed '40-foot' 'killer' spray, ... whereas with a handgun that you've trained with, you can start firing from further away, and wind is a non-issue. Quote:
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Bear Spray = B.S. Simple as that. Carry enough gun, and know how and where to hit with it. |
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December 23, 2018, 07:33 PM | #78 |
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So,agtman,
I get it that you found a couple of decent guys with an assortmemt of guns ,a bear target and a sled who live in AK. They made a fun video and its interesting.I'm not knocking them. I'm not knocking you. My practice was shooting tires rolling down a hill. I'm curious . What personal experience or expertise do you yourself actually have to base your adamant opinions on? Its OK you have them,but what are they based on? How did you get so sure? You can believe whatever you want,and make what choices you want to protect yourself,but you are expressing disrespect for other folks and giving advice that is not backed up Last edited by HiBC; December 23, 2018 at 07:49 PM. |
December 23, 2018, 10:26 PM | #79 |
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I was reading up on bear spray. In the expected standard laws are often stupid category.....
There are multiple states where it is illegal to buy pepper spray, but legal to buy bear spray. Oi-vey! |
December 23, 2018, 10:36 PM | #80 | |
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December 24, 2018, 09:05 AM | #81 | |
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He went down to the bear's hiding place to assess the situation and it charged him. That is how I know that a big grizzly can be killed by a skilled man with a .357. Since he emptied his piece, I also recognize that shooting at a bear is a very easy way to meet your doom. Seeing a bear that big and recognizing what it must have been like having that behemoth coming hell bent for my face has stuck with me, and I have no illusions. If i'm charged by an enraged, screaming grizzly, I'm going to die. probably a 90% certainty. The absolute confidence that some people present is amusing.
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December 24, 2018, 10:50 AM | #82 |
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Here's another funny one.
Ever trip to Alaska, I have to buy bear spray. You'll see it's pretty common to do this and gift it guides or tourist shops. I can bring a handgun on the plane, but not bear spray in any way. |
December 24, 2018, 10:56 AM | #83 |
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Your home has 50-75PSI in the pipes. Regulators are pre set to 50PSI. Higher than 75 and you need a regulator to avoid damage to your washing machine, dishwasher, and fridge.
Bear spray has up to 110PSI in the canister. Get it? 110PSI could potentially blind you by the impact. It hits AS HARD AS a garden hose at 40 FEET. Measure 40 feet. That's a pretty good shot alignment at a charging black bear covering 50ft in a second full speed... Protection, not hunting. That was the topic. Hunting? Sure, I mean I don't think it's all the awesome to be killing bears, but go ahead with the magnums. Heck, even Buffalo Bore Ammunition says a 9mm FMJ is sufficient --on their website. Avid weekly hiker here. What are your creds? Last edited by wild cat mccane; December 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM. |
December 24, 2018, 11:27 AM | #84 |
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Just going to leave this here for you all:
https://above.nasa.gov/safety/docume...vs_bullets.pdf I hike the Catskills and Adirondacks all summer, and carry Udap with me on every trip.
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December 24, 2018, 02:01 PM | #85 | |
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I work in the construction industry. I am very familiar with the water delivery system. You are correct that water pressure in domestic water lines is regulated to low pressures. But 110 psi is not high pressure. You can squirt me with 110 psi at 20 feet any time you want to. Bear spray is not designed to be a stream. It is intensionally a mist. By 40 feet it is a gentle, floating fog of nasty spices. The visable fog only sprays 20-25 feet, then it is a cloud that a charging bear runs through. This is directly from the instructions for UDAP bear spray
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December 24, 2018, 02:26 PM | #86 | |
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December 24, 2018, 02:59 PM | #87 |
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Mike, have you practiced with it? And can you hit a moving target with it? I'm not sure I could grab a can and spray an accurate stream in that high pressure situation without practice. UDAP sells inert cans for practice. Does Fox have them as well?
I want a fog. It's easier to get on the critter during a high stress, action filled encounter.
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December 24, 2018, 03:14 PM | #88 | |
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December 24, 2018, 04:17 PM | #89 |
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My mailman used spray on a spider outside my mail box once, stained the side of my house orange. It wasn't even poisonous, it was just big.
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December 26, 2018, 08:38 AM | #90 |
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Question. As aiming on a charging bear is hard work, why not kneel?
It would be more stable and you’d be level with the target: no lead. No?
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December 26, 2018, 11:04 AM | #91 | |
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#1) I don't like the idea of putting my face closer to the bear's mouth... #2) Aiming at the bear means facing the bear, worst case means turn and run, if kneeling, you have to GET UP, Turn, and Run...I'm old, don't do the "get up" part well any more, and while I would be highly motivated, I don't see a big benefit adding an extra step to the run away process...
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December 26, 2018, 12:31 PM | #92 |
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I think we have established that a person can choose fog or stream pepper spray.Take your pick.
With stream,its not like firing a shot that hits or misses.Its like squirting a hose. You see the stream and redirect it on target. Both seem so obvious I don't understand the arguments. In any case,as I have told my story,which amounts to one experience by one person (not much) I don't believe I gave much,if any advice.I do suggest standard Foster soft lead shotgun slugs lack penetration.If you will use a shotgun,I recommend stepping up to Brennekes or equiv.Whatever you shoot a bear with needs to penetrate. Either spray or gun beats nothing. If using a handgun,the biggest you can shoot well is probably best.Its still pretty small. If YOU decide to carry a Benelli 12 ga loaded with Brennekes or a 45-70 Guide gun or a .375 bolt gun or a 500 S+W or a 454 Casull or a 44 Magnum or a Lipsey 44 SPL or a Glock 10 mm or a .357 or a 460 Roland,45 ACP,or a 9x18 Makarov ,or bear spray,or any combination of the above,thats up to you. Its not my behind that's on the line.If you ask me what I would do,thats different.I can tell you. There is nothing to argue about. You might choose something else. That's OK.You get to take care of yourself your way. Despite government recommendations,My first choice where legal is an adequate firearm.I do not dismiss spray.I might carry both. If through hiking the Continental Divide Trail(not likely) I might just carry spray. Mostly,I'd try to avoid the bear or lion confrontation if possible. It would be really silly for me to tell you "Don't use bear spray" or "Your .357 will just make them mad" Both have been used successfully. Life has risks . We gear up to meet our fears. If we are among bears,lions,etc,in the woods,lightning,moving water,ticks,mosquitos,and gravity oh,and bad water,are probably every bit as dangerous. What gun for lightning? No gun will eliminate risk. If you are scared enough,make the choice to stay home. I feel best knowing I have a familiar piece of steel and some lead to put my hand on.The opinion of other folks doesn't matter a lot. I'm open to spray,and would use it.I might have my 44 in my other hand. One more thing.I keep reading about "The Charging Bear". Well,maybe. That can happen. Sometimes. I think more often it might start with a bear siting.The bear comes closer. Or smelling something dead. There is a situation to deal with and it deteriorates . Watch people fly fishing among grizzlies in Alaska..That crazy bear guy and his girlfriend were not killed by a charge.They were in a tent and a frypan was not enough. Hmmm.Frypan in the tent. That's at least cooking utensils in the tent. Bad idea.Avoidable. Last edited by HiBC; December 26, 2018 at 12:55 PM. |
December 26, 2018, 12:34 PM | #93 | |
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That makes all sorts of sense but a sidestep might be better as you empty your magazine into his side. As long as we are talking about making miraculous and difficult shots in amazingly stressful situations and surviving attacks by alpha predators that make their living by killing and eating things (when possible) we might as well be thorough. I'm going to wait until he's a yard away and make a tactical roll, then empty my single action .45 colt into his bunghole after he runs past. Of course it will be loaded with buffalo bore or A square lion load. If he manages to turn around and come back for another fanny whapping I can surely reload after another tactical roll and put six more rounds right down his nostrils. Poor stupid grizzly won't live long enough to regret messing with the true alpha predator. Me.
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December 26, 2018, 01:01 PM | #94 |
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briandg, Don't quit your day job.
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December 26, 2018, 01:23 PM | #95 | |
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We have standards on this forum, such as they are. |
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December 26, 2018, 02:19 PM | #96 | |
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An african hunter was once chased up a tree by a buffalo and his crew was missing. He dropped both his rifle and his handgun on the way up the tree. So, he unrolled his shirt, took a safety pin, fished for his 1911 until he caught it. Then he made a dummy out of his shirt and clothes, and he would swing it down in front of the buffalo and shoot it as it charged the dummy. After emptying the magazine, he was able to jump down on the other side of the tree and grab his rifle to dispatch the half dead critter. I read it, do I believe it? I dunno. You do what you can as the time arises, and plan for things like having your gun bearer drop the rifle and run like a scared little girl when a buffalo charges. I believe that his rifle failed to fire, but I can't remember. It's sure a good thing that he had a tree handy, but bear spray might have been pretty good, too. Not every idea is good, some are just so stupid they make politics look perfectly reasonable. Too many people can't winnow through the chaff and understand why interest rates should be changed, or which direction. Lots of people don't have the ability to discern when they aren't thinking clearly. Look around, you can certainly find a few. It's just as important to have second and third choices lined up in case the default reaction doesn't work. One of those options should be to have your will written, and don't bother putting your hunting gear in it. People are killed by bears, even smart ones are.
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December 26, 2018, 02:37 PM | #97 |
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Something that I have never noticed in any of the bear defense discussions is the use of a taser, or any other alternative weapon other than pepper spray.
Could we sell a juiced taser for bear control? would it be a good idea to shoot one into a big wooly pelted carnivore? Turns out that I'm not the only one who is thinking outside of the box, alaska fish and game department is researching it. http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...rticles_id=450 A tazed bear can be maced afterwards without risk of self-inflicted spray. it can also be dispatched if that is called for. Someday, bear tazers may be legal to purchase by the public but I'm not counting on it. Nobody will want to sell one that is rated for animal control to the public and risk the thing being used on a neighbor, resulting in possible repercussions for the maker.
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December 26, 2018, 04:11 PM | #98 |
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for the OP, you already have a .357 magnum. if it is a full sized gun you can load it with 158gr. solid rounds and be fine for your location. if you just want to buy another gun "for bear" a .44 magnum is good because it can be loaded from light to heavy which ever you discover is easiest for you to shoot fast AND accurately.
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December 26, 2018, 07:22 PM | #99 | |
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Even if kneeling were helpful, is it a step you'll remember in the quick heart-pounding moment of an animal charge? You'd probably be better served by putting your energy into drawing and trying to get shots on target. |
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December 26, 2018, 09:40 PM | #100 | |
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