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February 3, 2019, 04:16 PM | #1 |
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Best non +P 9mms for a short barrel (Sig 365) for SD
I recently picked up a Sig 365 for EDC. I carry Speer GD 124gr +P in my G19s but I think I want to explore non +P options for the 365. That would eliminate the Speer GD Short Barrel ammo.
I see a lot of people recommend the 124gr HST, but not sure if that applies to shorter barrels. Recommendations appreciated. Thanks |
February 3, 2019, 05:39 PM | #2 |
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You should be fine with the 124 HST. Luckygunner did an extensive tests on self defense ammo and you can see the results in the link below where 124 HST did great. They also used shorter barrel pistols for their testing. For 9MM they used the Smith and Wesson M&P 9C as pictured.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/
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February 3, 2019, 09:33 PM | #3 |
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Nothing beats HST.
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February 4, 2019, 08:46 AM | #4 | |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxqkxkSz4k
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February 4, 2019, 09:18 AM | #5 | |
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No bullet type, weight, pressure, or gimmick trumps.... Practice Placement Penetration |
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February 4, 2019, 10:06 AM | #6 |
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I am using Underwood Extreme Defender in all my 9mm carry guns. Their performance is exceptional even through windshield glass. The downside is the bullet shape which may not be the best if you wind up in court defending yourself. I am old and value performance over being killed by a carjacker and winding up in court.
The best advice I was ever given on this subject was, "find out what your local LE uses and assuming it feeds in your gun, carry that ammo" |
February 4, 2019, 10:17 AM | #7 | |
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February 4, 2019, 10:30 AM | #8 |
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I have Speer Gold Dot standard pressure 124gr in my Kahr K9. I don't feel like it'll under perform.
That said, literally all of my guns are loaded with Federal HST either +P or standard pressure. My HKs are the same but I also run them with Winchest Ranger T 127gr +P+. Now if you're concerned about ballistic performance out of a shorter barrel, seek shelter in the realm of 115gr bullets. SilverBack or Corbon DPX. |
February 4, 2019, 10:40 AM | #9 |
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This has to be the most over-analyzed question I run across, and I know because I over-analyzed it myself for quite a while. Online ballistic testing tends to produce contradictory results. As best I understand it, the magic behind a "short barrel hollow point" is simply that it's able to fully expand at lower velocities than would be achieved by a longer barrel.
Some options that seem to perform very well out of short barreled pistols include: - HST 124, 147 and 150 (micro) - Winchester Defend 147 - Sig's own "365" hollow point ammo - Hornady Critical Defense 115 (although it seems to have shallower penetration in the reviews I've read, like 12-13" in gel vs. 16" for the others...however it's also been shown to perform very consistently through a lot of different barriers whereas other HP designs can get clogged and not fully expand) Out of the above, I'd recommend the HST for two reasons: (1) it's never going to fail and it's a demonstrated performer, and (2) you can order it in 50 round boxes at a reasonable price and run it through your gun without feeling like you're wasting money. Most HP ammo is badly overpriced. That said, I carry Winchester 147 because I bought a couple boxes of it before I discovered that HST costs less. Eventually I'll shoot off my carry ammo and maybe I'll switch to HST. Maybe not. I really don't worry about it anymore. But overall it really doesn't matter. If you chose one of the ones I just listed, or one that others here have listed, so long as it runs reliably through your P365, just go with it. They'll all poke holes in things and will offer good terminal performance. |
February 4, 2019, 12:16 PM | #10 | |
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I hear this sort of claim made all the time on forums, don't do (or carry) X with your gun or you'll be seen as a cold-blooded killer and will never get a fair trial, where X can be any of the following: - Trigger modification - "Unusual" types of defense ammo - Laser sights - Red dot sights - Extended magazines - Spare magazines I asked a lawyer -- granted, just one lawyer who specializes in 2A law -- and he said that's all internet myth and not substantiated by anything he's ever seen. This specific Extreme Defender doesn't look all that extreme, apart from the name. Cheap ball ammo can achieve extreme penetration for $0.20 and destroy living things just as quick as any other load if it hits in the right spot. On the other hand, there may be legal precedent for this or that type of 9mm ammunition being challenged. I'd just like to know what it is so I can review it for myself. |
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February 4, 2019, 12:17 PM | #11 |
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Why no +p? The p365 is rated for it.
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February 4, 2019, 07:31 PM | #12 |
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I know it is. Just find standard a little more controllable in that light of a gun
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February 4, 2019, 08:00 PM | #13 |
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I agree with that; the beauty of the 365 is thin, light, good capacity; but it is like (IMO) putting a 357 into a 2" airweight snubbie.
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February 4, 2019, 08:08 PM | #14 | |
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February 4, 2019, 09:14 PM | #15 | |
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February 4, 2019, 09:17 PM | #16 |
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February 4, 2019, 09:35 PM | #17 |
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In my P365 and P320c RX I use Federal HST 124g JHP or Speer Gold Dot 124g JHP for Defensive.
Federal HST 124g AmmoQuest Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0 Federal HST 124g +P AmmoQuest Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld5jpsaDjbA |
February 5, 2019, 09:13 AM | #18 |
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I agree. I was just looking for suggestions for the best starting point. 124gr HSTs seems to be the winner so I'll start by testing them in my 365
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February 5, 2019, 10:26 AM | #19 | |
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I don't know if the accusation figured in the verdict or sentence, but it did come up. Sort of related; an acquaintance, who happens to be an attorney, was accused, by another attorney, in court, of being a violent maniac, the latter presenting a youtube video of my buddy at an IDPA match as evidence.
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February 5, 2019, 10:48 AM | #20 |
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This is probably unpopular but I've gone back to Winchester White Box in 115 grain JHP. It's been reliable and accurate in my guns and I can get it locally for $16 per 50 round box plus sales tax. I think regularly shooting carry ammo is a good idea and this makes it easy and affordable. In the past I've carried Gold Dots, Critical Defense or more commonly HST but I got tired of having to buy online in bulk to spread out the shipping cost and I'm unwilling to pay $1/round for the 20 round retail boxes of that stuff. Maybe I'm just lazy or cheap, or probably both.
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February 5, 2019, 12:03 PM | #21 | |
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Anyways, in the context of ammo selection, from the reviews I've read, it doesn't appear that fluted bullet designs are THAT much more effective than reliable JHP, to justify either the cost or perceived risk of looking weird for owning it. So to conclude this thread, just buy Federal HST 124g ammo and all things will fall into place |
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February 5, 2019, 12:10 PM | #22 | |
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But once you've run a box or two of Carry Load X through Pistol Y, I would imagine that's a good representative sample. Variations among manufactured cartridges will be insignificant. So I'm not sure I see why I'd continue running expensive JHP ammo through my gun once I've seen that 20, 40, etc. have all run and cycled properly. Am I missing something? As to carrying ball ammo -- I won't tell you not to. It still drills holes and they're only slightly smaller than expanded bullets, and not all JHPs will expand the same way every time, etc. Anything can overpenetrate. I carry JHP because I already own it And eventually when I shoot it off, I'll replace it with the same stuff. |
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February 5, 2019, 12:17 PM | #23 | |
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As to FMJ as carry ammo, I don't think that's a great idea. It isn't as effective and it's worse from an over penetration standpoint. The WWB I carry is JHP, not FMJ. |
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February 5, 2019, 07:54 PM | #24 |
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Not NON plus P but you should really try the ARX Plus P. Sweet mild shooting round with plenty of power.
Read this article below http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/search?q=lcr+9mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDTmVdSU8k |
February 6, 2019, 08:00 AM | #25 | |
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Yes you will get the 'not gonna bet my life on.....', but I think it's fine. Shooting is a great past-time but even at $10 for 50...if ya shoot a lot, it can be pricy...
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